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  1. #21
    I am Murloc! Descense's Avatar
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    Item upgrades will have an effect similar to the Dragon Soul nerfs, making raids easier over time.

    Similar my ***. This only means that the bosses will be harder due too ppl with no time wont be able too grid the gear for a raid. 30% was much better solution in my option because 1.st you dont have too waste soo much time upgrading old gear and second it gives ppl with less time a time too breath.
    Thats like saying we would like you too play longer so we get more $$$ out of you.

    Upgrading your items is meant to be a progression, but the new raid gear in Patch 5.2 will be better than your upgraded items, so upgrading everything isn't mandatory.
    Upgrading is pointless. Its better too save 4000 valors for a new gear when patch hits (unles they will make another s****y reputation roadblock). And no1 in right mind will go and upgrade all items anyway (unles super duper hardcore raiders). Ppl will simply burn out if they do that (unles they implent a *daily quest* bots).

  2. #22
    Herald of the Titans Syridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    But that is all subjective. The game cannot be the steaming pile of crap that people make it out to be or there would not be 10 million players worldwide, at least double it's closest competitor. I am willing to bet that for every person you show me that is certain that a particular aspect of the game is the worst thing to ever happen to WoW, I could find someone else that thinks it is the greatest change ever. And probably 2 more people that don't care either way.

    Any person's opinion on any aspect of the game is valid, at least insofar as opinions go. You have every right to voice yours, just as others have an equal right to disagree with you. What you cannot expect is for Blizzard, or any other game developer for that matter, to cater to your whims when it comes to design decisions. As the poster I quoted said, game development is not a service industry. They make a product, you pay to use it. If you don't like that product, you are free to not use it any longer. You are also free to request changes to that product if it is not meeting your expectations. The problem is that too many people confuse "request" with "demand". I've noticed that they also tend to have a hard time accepting it when the developer does not agree with them, jumping to the conclusion that because their idea was not meditatively implemented, the developers are obviously not listening to feedback or are *insert insulting description (profanities optional) here*
    Just quoting this post for truth really. If more of the posters on this forum can get past the hurdle of ''I PAY FOR IT. IT SHOULD DO WHAT I SAY.'' then we might have considerably more potential for interesting discussions around here.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post
    As opposed to you telling them how everyone else should want to play? This level of whining and entitlement has reached a new low. You are paying for the privilege to play the games they want to make, you are not paying to be accommodated to. This is not a service industry no matter how much you've warped it in your mind to look that way. You are paying for the honor of getting to use the professional creations of artists and gamer designers. Don't like it? See if those who share your feelings can change that with your pocketbooks. Guess what, you won't be able to. The system will always self correct once someone makes something cool other people are willing to pay to have. Just because they get popular at doing this regularly doesn't mean they become your personal creator slave.
    You people have it backwards. Buying a service from Blizzard isn't a PRIVELEGE. It may certainly be a luxury but it's not a privelege in the sense that Blizzard is some magnanimous benefactor giving me shit out of their good graces. Yes people are entitled to some satisfaction for their money. "Fun" in other words. It's an HONOR to use their creations that's RICH. When did game developers become royalty? Should I bow humble before lord ghost crawler. You'd think they messiach had come down or something. I don't throw around the word fanboi often but cmooon. Blizzard is not Oprah Winfrey. How ABSURD are you people?

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 05:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    But that is all subjective. The game cannot be the steaming pile of crap that people make it out to be or there would not be 10 million players worldwide, at least double it's closest competitor. I am willing to bet that for every person you show me that is certain that a particular aspect of the game is the worst thing to ever happen to WoW, I could find someone else that thinks it is the greatest change ever. And probably 2 more people that don't care either way.

    Any person's opinion on any aspect of the game is valid, at least insofar as opinions go. You have every right to voice yours, just as others have an equal right to disagree with you. What you cannot expect is for Blizzard, or any other game developer for that matter, to cater to your whims when it comes to design decisions. As the poster I quoted said, game development is not a service industry. They make a product, you pay to use it. If you don't like that product, you are free to not use it any longer. You are also free to request changes to that product if it is not meeting your expectations. The problem is that too many people confuse "request" with "demand". I've noticed that they also tend to have a hard time accepting it when the developer does not agree with them, jumping to the conclusion that because their idea was not immediately implemented, the developers are obviously not listening to feedback or are *insert insulting description (profanities optional) here*
    I agree people are free not to use their products. However by the same token people are free to state their opinions about aspects they dislike. The guy who was quoted originally was tired of being told what fun is. Why jump on him for that? Can you imagine if the developers didn't take feedback into account and we were stuck in the 2006 world of warcraft. In the end the developers make decisions but we have some influence on those decisions and we should express and voice our distaste. I don't understand why are people committed to turning on their fellow players instead of asking the devs to make changes to accommodate some of their complaints? Would you rather it be a totally arithmetical calculation? X amount of players leave so Blizzard does Y? How has that been working out? Wouldn't it be much more sane and rational to ask the guy who was tired of being told what fun was his specific complaints and then feed that information to the developers to see if anything is done. Your post is honestly not very constructive. I could make the case that the guy originally quoted was much more constructive. At least I learned what his general beef was. Yours didn't glean me anything new or insightful at all.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2012-12-13 at 05:43 PM.

  4. #24
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Do not bring RNG to pvp gear. SWTOR had it at the beginning and it was horrible.

  5. #25
    I can't wait until the Q4 report...

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    But they get higher ilvl because the bosses are harder. Which means that it's easier for them for some reason.
    oddly enough, I dont see asian guilds getting world firsts.

  7. #27
    Banned But I Hate You All's Avatar
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    I can't wait until the Q4 report it will be funny as hell.

    I smell a cata 2.0
    Last edited by But I Hate You All; 2012-12-13 at 07:07 PM.

  8. #28
    Legendary! Granyala's Avatar
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    As opposed to you telling them how everyone else should want to play? This level of whining and entitlement has reached a new low. You are paying for the privilege to play the games they want to make, you are not paying to be accommodated to. This is not a service industry no matter how much you've warped it in your mind to look that way. You are paying for the honor of getting to use the professional creations of artists and gamer designers
    At least someone is still capable of objective thoughts...

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    At least someone is still capable of objective thoughts...
    I would hardly call his diatribe objective. Unless you were being sarcastic. It's backwards to think I as a paying customer ought to somehow feel honored that I get to use their creation. That it's somehow a blessing from on high.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Alastaircrawly View Post
    I can't wait until the Q4 report it will be funny as hell.

    I smell a cata 2.0
    Quote Originally Posted by Korru View Post
    I can't wait until the Q4 report...
    Yes, we're all looking forward to it.

    "Subs increase: People are morons.
    Subs are stable: People will quit soon.
    Subs have declined slightly: AND IT'LL JUST INCREASE FROM HERE
    Subs have dropped by a large margin: HAHAHA ITS DEAD"

    And those who doesn't give a damn about numbers of subs will remain silent.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Korru View Post
    I can't wait until the Q4 report...
    Yeah you can actually tell they're aware of bleeding numbers. Before their attitude was shut up, dailies are fine stop whining they are optional. Now they're saying dailies were a bit too much. We're witnessing the same backpedaling that happened with heroics are meant to be heroic, l2play.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrouswheel View Post
    Yeah you can actually tell they're aware of bleeding numbers. Before their attitude was shut up, dailies are fine stop whining they are optional. Now they're saying dailies were a bit too much. We're witnessing the same backpedaling that happened with heroics are meant to be heroic, l2play.
    This reminds me how NASA actually taking their time to debunk a threat from some fictional planet named Nibiru, the proponents saw it as some sort of validation that they were hiding something.

    Yeah, Blizzard will only talk when subs are decreasing. Naturally.
    Their attitude NEVER came close to "shut up, dailies are fine" They recieved a lot of feedback regarding dailies, but they agree with the notion that it's a bit too hostile against alts. And look, we got a 100% bonus for alts. Otherwise dailies are apparently working well considering that they dared to use it again in 5.1. It's almost as if the silent majority know how to play moderately and not burn themselves out on dailies
    Last edited by MasterHamster; 2012-12-13 at 08:35 PM.
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    This reminds me how NASA actually taking their time to debunk a threat from some fictional planet named Nibiru, the proponents saw it as some sort of validation that they were hiding something.

    Yeah, Blizzard will only talk when subs are decreasing. Naturally.
    They recieved a lot of feedback regarding dailies, but they agree with the notion that it's a bit too hostile against alts. And look, we got a 100% bonus for alts. Otherwise dailies are apparently working well considering that they dared to use it again in 5.1. It's almost as if the silent majority know how to player moderately and not burn themselves out on dailies
    Sorry one does not follow from the other. IN fact quite the opposite is true. Dailies did not work well, thats why they reduced the number so dramatically. The only reason they didn't abandon the model completely is likely because they had this planned out going forward as the "content" they were going to give to people. nothing about the 5.1 dailies said dailies are working. They are likely unsure of what to do next. All it says is that Blizzard cut them back so much and made so little of them this expansion it's hardly a blip on the radar now. Were living in strange times where dailies are working even though they've taken a huge backseat in 5.1.

  14. #34
    Legendary! Granyala's Avatar
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    I would hardly call his diatribe objective. Unless you were being sarcastic. It's backwards to think I as a paying customer ought to somehow feel honored that I get to use their creation.
    WoW is not an open Source project and it hopefully never will be.

    Feedback & criticism is o.k. and desirable that exists in every branch of artwork.

    However these "Blizzard must design what I want!11 15$$$" is stupid.
    Don't like it? -> Vote with your wallet. That's how capitalism works and that's what I did during the T9 ToC patch cycle.
    But don't spam the forums with threats and whine.

  15. #35
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrouswheel View Post
    If you want to raid twice a week you have the option to raid on an alt. Problem solved.
    You see now that almost makes sense, until you realise that the person whose point you refer to actually blew your argument away.

    1) What if he doesn't have alts?
    2) Even if he has alts, why should he have to raid on them? Why can't he raid twice a week on a character or main character that he wants to?
    3) However you like to think of it, you wouldn't be 'forced' to raid twice a week if they brought back separate lock-outs; you never have been. Everything is 'optional' after all, as the optional crowd loves to insist.
    In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers, we are not simply protecting their trivial old age, we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago 1918-1956

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    WoW is not an open Source project and it hopefully never will be.

    Feedback & criticism is o.k. and desirable that exists in every branch of artwork.

    However these "Blizzard must design what I want!11 15$$$" is stupid.
    Don't like it? -> Vote with your wallet. That's how capitalism works and that's what I did during the T9 ToC patch cycle.
    But don't spam the forums with threats and whine.
    Well the original guy who got this whole mishegoes started simple said that he was tired of being told what's fun. Out of that sparked what IMHO is the most fanboi thing I've ever read on a forum. Now you may not like his particular criticism and it could probably stand to be a bit more constructive but it was VASTLY more constructive then telling people they should be honored to play world of warcraft. I learned nothing from that guys post other then some people have a backwards view of the world. Some people feel beholden to these developers so much so that they would turn on their fellow game players and worship at the teet of some guy in a cubicle somewhere shovelling shit for 15$ a month to the player base.

    Yes people should vote with their wallets but apparently according to some even that doesn't matter as the game won't change if people leave and the developers will roll merrily along. It is a ridiculous strawman to say that even a minority let alone majority of the feedback is "Blizzard must design what I want 15$"""". What's being said is that I'm unhappy with the service I pay for, this is why, I'm leaving unless changes are made. Do you expect them to stay?

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 08:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    You see now that almost makes sense, until you realise that the person whose point you refer to actually blew your argument away.

    1) What if he doesn't have alts?
    2) Even if he has alts, why should he have to raid on them? Why can't he raid twice a week on a character or main character that he wants to?
    3) However you like to think of it, you wouldn't be 'forced' to raid twice a week if they brought back separate lock-outs; you never have been. Everything is 'optional' after all, as the optional crowd loves to insist.
    Apparently not raiding 10 and 25 a week. I mean that was just to forced and mandatory. That just had to be changed. The inherent contradictions are mind numbing. Their was a blue tweet the other day about Blingtron the robot. They nerfed Blingtron to one per day per account because.. wait for it.... BLINGTRON FELT LIKE A JOB... The robot who offered you nothing of value and whos "quest" took all of 2 seconds felt like a job. Well alirght GC I want to invest the time into blingtron? What now?

  17. #37
    Someone got frustrated by being told "what's fun", and Blizzard got tired of being told that everything they do is shit.
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Someone got frustrated by being told "what's fun", and Blizzard got tired of being told that everything they do is shit.
    Aside from that being a ridiculous straw man the developers get PAID. It's a JOB. They should expect criticism. They don't need your kid gloves.

  19. #39
    High Overlord Kissme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    I would hardly call his diatribe objective. Unless you were being sarcastic. It's backwards to think I as a paying customer ought to somehow feel honored that I get to use their creation. That it's somehow a blessing from on high.
    You as a customer choose whether or not to pay to play their creation. If they stop creating something you enjoy, you should stop paying them to play it. Their own greed should encourage them to create something that a majority wants to play, but they should also be true to their own artistic vision and shouldn't sway from their vision just to give the customer's what they want.

    This is part of the problem with games now - they focus so much on trying to cater to the customer's demands, that they end up moving away from their own visions and then wondering why people complain that their product lacks originality and soul. Imagine if SWToR had been KOTOR 3 instead of trying to tack an MMO experience onto what they excelled at. Imagine if Diablo 3 had been true to the Diablo game experience.

    Designer's should design the games they think need to be made. Players should choose to play the games they think are fun. The idea of niche games being successful is one that needs to come back. Game development has, is, and always will be a business, but it needs to regain it's soul as well.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Kissme View Post
    You as a customer choose whether or not to pay to play their creation. If they stop creating something you enjoy, you should stop paying them to play it. Their own greed should encourage them to create something that a majority wants to play, but they should also be true to their own artistic vision and shouldn't sway from their vision just to give the customer's what they want.

    This is part of the problem with games now - they focus so much on trying to cater to the customer's demands, that they end up moving away from their own visions and then wondering why people complain that their product lacks originality and soul. Imagine if SWToR had been KOTOR 3 instead of trying to tack an MMO experience onto what they excelled at. Imagine if Diablo 3 had been true to the Diablo game experience.

    Designer's should design the games they think need to be made. Players should choose to play the games they think are fun. The idea of niche games being successful is one that needs to come back. Game development has, is, and always will be a business, but it needs to regain it's soul as well.
    Please let's be adults. Their artistic vision is to make money. PERIOD. They aren't picasso and we shouldn't treat them as artists. Their goal is to produce an entertaining product that will keep people entertained enough to garner the 15$ a month. SWTOR and D3 were attempts to cash in as well.

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