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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Clevername View Post
    Don't 2 heal elegon tbh
    We've never 3 healed elegon and I don't see how it's possible to need 3. The fight lays out perfectly for 2 healers. Each has their side during orb phase, heals their 5 people, heals their sides during pillars, meet in the middle for the big damage, then back onto the platform. Damage is minimal during the majority of the fight, so mana shouldn't be an issue. Even with low ilevel at the time, I was going into orb phases with near 100% mana and back on the platform with 50%+ and regenning back 25-40% during the platform phase. Losing a DPS to get another healer means you may have issues killing all the orbs as well (6 orbs, 6 dps with 2 healers/2 tanks). Not worth the trade, IMO.

  2. #22
    Mana use is key in Elegon, use only 2 healers, Disc should be Holy for that fight.

  3. #23
    First off dont listen to any of these idiots that are posting on these forums, heres what the druid is doing wrong. First off he should be putting Raw 320 spirit gems in sockets that dont have a Bonus of 120 of Int / spirit Stat, Second he needs to fix his reforgeing, he should download Reforgelite or Do it on his own by getting to the 3043 Haste Breakpoint then going All out spirit then Mastery, Int>Haste(3043)>Spirit>Mastery>Crit>2nd Haste breakpoint. Hes Also over his Haste Breakpoint by about 175 Haste. Now looking at His logs, For elegon its spose to be a 2 healed fight but 3 healing it is fine in your situation. He needs to get some kind of Aura to track Harmony. Tellmewhen , Power Auras , Weakauras. Any of those 3 work, he needs to track Harmony you NEED to have a 90% uptime or higher and its really easy to do that because harmony now last 20 seconds, Hes also Barely doing ANY healing with lifebloom so im assuming hes not keeping 3 stacks of lifebloom on a tank Which he NEEDS to, thats where he gets his Clearcasting Procs And it does a shit load of healing, He also NEEDS to use Wild Growth on Cooldown Same with swiftmend, Using Wild Mushrooms is pretty much a waste of 3 Globals because it heals for an average of 5k and you can be doing something else rather then wasteing globals on that. He should Also get Nature's Swiftness 1 Minute cooldown and is a decent tank cooldown if used with healing touch. Looks like he was using innervate on cooldown so thats good. He only tranqed once on elegon on a 8 Minute 52 Sec fight, so he should be able to get 2 extra tranqs in if used on first explosion ,(First Phase) , First explosion , (Second phase) then on last Phase. he should also Only be gemming 160 Mastery , 160 Spirit and 320 Spirit.

    You do not need to insult posters to get your point across. Infracted.
    Last edited by Sunfyre; 2012-12-15 at 02:12 AM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Totemtown View Post
    *First off dont listen to any of these idiots that are posting on these forums.
    *he should also Only be gemming 160 Mastery , 160 Spirit and 320 Spirit.
    Words cannot express...
    Last edited by Maxvla; 2012-12-15 at 03:55 AM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Totemtown View Post
    First off dont listen to any of these idiots that are posting on these forums
    Thats a pretty bold statement. Care to back your ego up with armory and logs?

    While there is nothing glaringly wrong with your advice, you failed to acknowledge the fact that on some fights he is overhealing by 60% which is really a large part of the problem. Telling him to simply use wild growth on cooldown when on some fights his wild growth is already over 70% overhealing really won't help. I agree reforging and uptime on lifebloom and harmony will certainly help but there are more problems than just that.

    A lot of your advice is good its just a shame you had to open by being a completely hostile dick.

  6. #26
    Backup my armory? Yea bro Look up Totemtown / Manatree On mug'tholl. K thanks, Want logs? go to wow - heros and find them.

  7. #27
    An alt in nearly all raid finder gear. Clearly you know all the ins and outs of this class.

  8. #28
    Rofl, you make me laugh. You think because my gear isn't full 502 i dont know anything about resto druids? hahahha. You have a long road infront of you and a resto druid was my main from Pre Bc to Dragon soul if you checked my kill counts. Nub Go ahead tell me ur mains name so i can laugh at how terrible you are. K Thanks

    Stop flaming people because they disagree with you. Infracted.
    Last edited by Sunfyre; 2012-12-15 at 04:52 AM.

  9. #29
    You obviously don't know how druids work in this expansion, so don't bother. Druids are by far the most efficient healer out there. Stacking spirit DOES NOT WORK for druids in MoP. I run with ~7500 spirit and regularly give my innervates to my other healer(s) and still put out competitive healing as well as keep my group alive clearing 10/16H on a 8-12 hour a week schedule with just a lowly 490 ilevel. You don't even have a main spec resto druid in your guild, which, while understandable (druids are not great atm), means you don't have experience raiding with one in your healing team. I truly mean no offense, but you are ignorant of how this class plays now. Your resto druid is not the same as your resto shaman, don't gear them the same way.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Niches/simple

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post
    ...You have to be patient, let your hots do their work, learn what your other healer(s) spells will do and when they tend to cast them and balance yours accordingly.
    And your other healer(s) need to do let your heals work too.

    I just started LFRing and a lot of time people simply aren't that low because early int he week I'm running with other healers who are geared. It's kind of disconcerting to not have a lot to heal during some fights and you can end up casting stuff because you feel like you need to be doing something.

    `As far as overheals, I can rejuv someone who's 30% down... but then that toon is healed to full by someone's direct heal and guess what, my rejuv ticks are wasted and counted as overheal. Your healers need to coordinate what they're doing and who they're primarily responsible for. Remember, too, that Disc's shields can't overheal so effective HPS is high for them.

    Also, if he's just started in your raid, remember that he doesn't know the fights. Knowing fights helps a lot... you get to know that melee will take heavy damage THERE and that the tank will be pressured THERE and that as you enter THAT phase there will be AOE damage. Some of his issues sound like a healer who's panic healing a bit.

    Statwise, he's about where I am... here's my armory so you can see another druid at his gear level: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...eleon/advanced
    Last edited by clevin; 2012-12-15 at 07:53 AM.

  11. #31
    edit: post I replied to has been removed...

    If druids had 20,000 spirit it would not change all that much. You can't sit there moaning about how your class SHOULD be when it clearly isn't. I put out healing similar to my resto shaman partner and slightly above our ret paladin's offspec healing (with somewhat worse gear). You are right my harmony uptime is not perfect, part of that is by choice (time I'm not healing because it's not necessary, or spell selection for a particular moment), part is because I'm not the best around, never claimed to be, but we do progress and my gearing is backed up by numbers, not wishing like yours is. As far as lifebloom, you must be mistaken or the log is wrong. It's impossible to only do 1.6k healing with lifebloom since it ticks for more than that.

    Druid's currently are not spam blanket hot healers. This is how you expect them to be, and you try to gear so that you can do that, but you are failing to adjust to what the class IS capable of, efficient massive heals.
    Last edited by Maxvla; 2012-12-15 at 06:53 AM.

  12. #32
    I wish people would stop telling others how much spirit they should have.
    To a certain extent we all do the same sure.
    keep lifebloom up, use SM and WG close to cd. use procs for free regrowths sure.
    for the rest of the time we are casting rejuev and regrowth outside of procs.
    How much we need to do of this will vary hugely.
    This is not just because of encounters varying but also raid groups varying.
    How good are the other healers?
    are dps using defensive cd's?
    are hybrids helping with healing at bad times?
    are you using 2 or 3 healers? (less important factor in 25 mans)
    are you using HoTW to dps (and thus regen mana) or are you using a different talent.
    Did you pick SotF or incarnation?

    The CORRECT amount of spirit is enough so you can last the fight (assuming efficiency and good spell selection) but not so much that you no longer need to use innervate on cd and/or you end fights with a ton of mana left.
    For most druids this number is currently between 7 and 10k spirit.

  13. #33
    I agree with maxvla and felis, there are many factors that may determine your healing output (specc, raid comb, fellow healer class). most important imo is with whom you are healing. I used to heal with a H pala for quite a long time almost exclusively and I have been outhealing him on almost EVERY encounter. currently I'm healing with a disc quite often and that somehow fucks my healing up pretty heavily; I have way more overheal than I used to have and my HPS have gone down by quite a large margin.

    concerning gear/gems/stats: I somehow do think that there is a right number of spirit for every R druid, but that number depends on raid comb and fellow healer again. still I think there is a certain number where the margin utility of spirit falls behind the margin utility of mastery. I'd guess that this number is around 8,5k for most druids. If u play almost perfectly and the communication with your raid is very good, even 7-7,5k might be enough.

    grats maxvla for clearing 10 hc with 490, thats quite nice with a specc that is falling behind every other healing specc.

  14. #34
    One more comment... HPS is a poor way to measure healer effectiveness. It's useful to see if someone's slacking incredibly or really really bad, but RLs who measure how good healers are mostlly on HPS numbers are being... um... silly. It can also lead to people sniping heals and doing other crap to pump up their numbers. In LFR HoF the other night this shammy was bragging that on one encounter he was top HPS... yes he was. And his most healed toon? Himself. Amusingly on the second boss he bragged that he was the best healer in the raid... and died.

    Anyway, on topic, the real question is whether your healers are working together and whether each can keep up their assignments. If you're not assigning responsibilities, do that. And quit calling people scrubs because when they raid for the first time in over two years on a class that's changed a lot they don't kick ass.

  15. #35
    Fluffy Kitten Cambria's Avatar
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    1. Coheed <3
    2. Good job Sun for slapping the troll and for people not insulting him back
    3. Mostly good advice so far

    • Not enchanting, flasking, eating food and all that hurts you as a druid. If you're a raider, enchant your shit..it's simple. He's stupidly losing a lot of help by being lazy/cheap.
    • Harmony uptime, LB uptime, and which spells to use when comes with research and practice. Make him sit down and read a guide and teach himself to execute it.
    • CD usage comes with knowing fights in and out. To not fall behind as a druid(and with his overheal it's the main thing he's failing at) is predicting dmg. Knowing when blanket healing is going to be needed, knowing when to use tranq and Tree so you can use them as many times as possible, and so on. He needs to know fights pretty much perfectly. It's not like past expansions where you could blanket most fights while watching tv at the same time and roll everyone.
    • Spirit, most people are correct. About 7-8k is all you need, esp in regs. Yes, it's going to be different for everyone, but 7-8k is all you should need for encounters unless your other healers suck or your raid mouthbreathe keyboard turns in all the bad. If you have one of those problems, a lot changes based on how you heal and set up. With his gear and doing regs he shouldn't need more than that even if it was with bads. More spi =/= more effective healing for us.

  16. #36
    BTW, on harmony etc... anyone have a good set of weakauras settings? Everyone's different, but I find it helpful to have something in front of me that clearly indicates that you have a buff/aura on you vs a little "Harmony" text floating by and powerauras/weakauras seems to work well for me as an aid to not missing that something's active.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Oddd View Post
    grats maxvla for clearing 10 hc with 490, thats quite nice with a specc that is falling behind every other healing specc.
    Thanks. Honestly these days I don't feel all that underpowered while doing progression attempts, and haven't for a while. That said, after we kill amber shaper tomorrow for our 11th heroic kill, I'll be heading to my alt disc priest (in ~475 ilevel.. ouch) to be able to handle empress heroic. The main reason for that is the burst is too fast to handle efficiently enough with a druid. I'll mostly be dpsing/atonement healing but using spirit shell once per set of fields. We'll have at least 2 full healers plus me dps/healing, perhaps 3 full healers depending on how it goes. Nasty looking fight.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post
    edit: post I replied to has been removed...

    If druids had 20,000 spirit it would not change all that much. You can't sit there moaning about how your class SHOULD be when it clearly isn't. I put out healing similar to my resto shaman partner and slightly above our ret paladin's offspec healing (with somewhat worse gear). You are right my harmony uptime is not perfect, part of that is by choice (time I'm not healing because it's not necessary, or spell selection for a particular moment), part is because I'm not the best around, never claimed to be, but we do progress and my gearing is backed up by numbers, not wishing like yours is. As far as lifebloom, you must be mistaken or the log is wrong. It's impossible to only do 1.6k healing with lifebloom since it ticks for more than that.

    Druid's currently are not spam blanket hot healers. This is how you expect them to be, and you try to gear so that you can do that, but you are failing to adjust to what the class IS capable of, efficient massive heals.
    Don't bother trying to do competitive healing on LFR. It's impossible. If the other healers have half a brain, there's not enough damage for you to do anything at all. It's nothing on you as a healer - it's everything on LFR catering to the lowest common denominator.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 04:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by felis View Post
    I wish people would stop telling others how much spirit they should have.
    To a certain extent we all do the same sure.
    keep lifebloom up, use SM and WG close to cd. use procs for free regrowths sure.
    for the rest of the time we are casting rejuev and regrowth outside of procs.
    How much we need to do of this will vary hugely.
    This is not just because of encounters varying but also raid groups varying.
    How good are the other healers?
    are dps using defensive cd's?
    are hybrids helping with healing at bad times?
    are you using 2 or 3 healers? (less important factor in 25 mans)
    are you using HoTW to dps (and thus regen mana) or are you using a different talent.
    Did you pick SotF or incarnation?

    The CORRECT amount of spirit is enough so you can last the fight (assuming efficiency and good spell selection) but not so much that you no longer need to use innervate on cd and/or you end fights with a ton of mana left.
    For most druids this number is currently between 7 and 10k spirit.
    Assuming a reasonable situation without particularly extenuating circumstances, 7-8k spirit is a good guideline. If you have a competent healing team, and a raid that doesn't mouth breathe, then there's no reason not to put that extra Spirit into througput.

    Most of those factors you list really aren't big deals. There are zero fights this tier on Normal that are that close on mana usage (first week of raiding, sure, but definitely not now), and there are few on even Heroic.

    Remember...480 Spirit lets you cast eight extra Rejuvs in a six minute fight. 480 Mastery increases your total healing throughput by 1% (now immortal words of Hamlet from EJ). Spirit is a stat you minimize, not max.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 04:23 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    BTW, on harmony etc... anyone have a good set of weakauras settings? Everyone's different, but I find it helpful to have something in front of me that clearly indicates that you have a buff/aura on you vs a little "Harmony" text floating by and powerauras/weakauras seems to work well for me as an aid to not missing that something's active.
    I use NeedToKnow. I have a large timer set up right underneath my raid frames. NTK is just a lightweight and less pretty version of powerauras/weakauras. It uses timers to show you information instead of pretty graphics.

  19. #39
    PHS... thanks, I've used NTK in the past on other toons. I'll check it out.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    One more comment... HPS is a poor way to measure healer effectiveness. It's useful to see if someone's slacking incredibly or really really bad, but RLs who measure how good healers are mostlly on HPS numbers are being... um... silly. It can also lead to people sniping heals and doing other crap to pump up their numbers. In LFR HoF the other night this shammy was bragging that on one encounter he was top HPS... yes he was. And his most healed toon? Himself. Amusingly on the second boss he bragged that he was the best healer in the raid... and died.

    Anyway, on topic, the real question is whether your healers are working together and whether each can keep up their assignments. If you're not assigning responsibilities, do that. And quit calling people scrubs because when they raid for the first time in over two years on a class that's changed a lot they don't kick ass.
    Pretty much this! We aren't concerned with hps, but we were suffering random deaths, including tank deaths, when we were two healing it, when the past few weeks we had it on farm with a resto shaman and mist weaver. The advice was well received tho, especially on swiftmend usage and harmony uptime. We progressed on our Thursday night and got Garalon down the first night of attempting the fight. (lol@ 3 healing it and downing him EXACTLY at enrage!) thanks for all the constructive feedback tho! Our disc was also relatively under geared for 2 healing as well, so that was part of it, as was the ooming... His mana is way better now, as well as his confidence lol! And we got his lazy ass enchanted :P

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