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  1. #1

    What will Garrosh do to cause the orcs to rebel?

    This has been bugging me for a while. I know every race in the Horde, aside from the orcs, and the entirety of the Alliance, have a reason to want to oust Garrosh. But the orcs don't. Everything he has done has been for them (stated in 5.1 and Heart of War), and lets be honest, Orcs have it much better under Garrosh than they do Thrall. Blizz has even gone out of their way to show that the much younger ones have all but forgot/dont care about their past with Demon Blood. Growing up in internment camps and seeing their parents weak and sick probably only inspired their hate for the Alliance.

    Remember, Garrosh embodies pretty much everything an orc venerates. He is courageous, proud, quick and decisive, aggresive, and has done a lot for his people. This, along with any propaganda that the Kor'Kron spew out, would make this guy a legend in the eyes of the average orc.

    So what could he possibly do to cause them to rebel? aside from a really stupid copout like, 'he went batshit insane and starts killing orcs for lulz'. The only thing that I could see happening is that the horde is going to start getting its ass handed to it by the Alliance, or Garrosh does something that causes him to lose a major battle and kill a large chunk of the orcish population im the process.

    Maybe the orca wont even rebel. Maybe those with sense are going to be under lockout during the Seige.

  2. #2
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Ishi made some interesting points, he talks about their lost families, friends etc. Garrosh war was very costly and it seems the orcs are near their limit.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  3. #3
    Try to assassinate Saurfang. Saurfang, being who he is, will survive the attack, make it clear who was responsible, and then go underground. Even better would be defecting to the Alliance to coordinate the siege of Orgrimmar.

  4. #4
    Blademaster Slorg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Try to assassinate Saurfang. Saurfang, being who he is, will survive the attack, make it clear who was responsible, and then go underground. Even better would be defecting to the Alliance to coordinate the siege of Orgrimmar.
    Completely agree here. Saurfang is going to have some involvement. Either he is going to challenge garrosh to a mok'gora and garrosh kills him and that causes a big split or Saurfang survives it like constellation said. Hell now that i think about it maybe garrosh finds out that thrall is helping vol'jin and orders aggra and/or thrall's son to be killed

  5. #5
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    So wait you say you know every race of the horde except for the orcs, and now your saying you believe you understand them and what they represent?

    Lets clear this up, Garrosh represents Grom Hellscream, the brutal warrior who killed countless and became a legend because of it. Orcish culture is more complex then that though, as there are many clans within orcish society, and the ideals of what an orc is doesn't just come down to one type.

    As for the points you make, Couragoues? He sacrifices his own men for power. Quck and decisive? He split his airfleet up in the twilight highlands and left himself open for attack, which is did.

    He has the aggressive nature and the battlelust to fight against the alliance, but so does every other orc, that doesn't make him special, and the orcs have not needed anymore reason to defend there lands from the alliance. He exists purely as a plot device to create tension.

    As for what the orcs would turn on him, the rest of the horde are turning against him behind his back already. All it will take is a catalyst for the orcs to realize there folly in following him, for garrosh to do something so against there way of life it causes only the most devoted garrosh loyal orc to remain with him. As of yet, that catalyst has yet to show itself.
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  6. #6
    Herald of the Titans Uzi's Avatar
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    Maybe the orca wont even rebel. Maybe those with sense are going to be under lockout during the Seige.
    That typo always makes me laugh

    Well they could always go the easy was and have him infested with Sha energy, driving most of the orcs against him (Saurfang and the crowd would certainly not like seeing an orc pact with such evil forces again).

  7. #7
    Pandaren Monk gypsybob's Avatar
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    Guess we'll have to wait until 5.2 or 5.3 to see the next bit.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    As for what the orcs would turn on him, the rest of the horde are turning against him behind his back already. All it will take is a catalyst for the orcs to realize there folly in following him, for garrosh to do something so against there way of life it causes only the most devoted garrosh loyal orc to remain with him. As of yet, that catalyst has yet to show itself.
    I reference you to the revamp of Ragefire Chasm they did for MoP, despite JUST having revamped it in Cataclysm. And it's populated by Fel Orcs. When the HELL were Fel Orcs let into Orgrimmar?

    I smell demonic influence...
    Games are not necessarily "easier" today. You are just a better player.
    It takes more now to impress many gamers than it did 2-5 years ago, because so much has already been seen and done.
    Many players expect to be wow'd with every release of a beloved franchise.
    These are generally NOT the fault of the developers, but the fault of many players over-hyping and/or setting expectations too high.

  9. #9
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroEdgeir View Post
    I reference you to the revamp of Ragefire Chasm they did for MoP, despite JUST having revamped it in Cataclysm. And it's populated by Fel Orcs. When the HELL were Fel Orcs let into Orgrimmar?

    I smell demonic influence...
    I don't think that would be enough to make the orcs rebel against him, as he would simply twist that into claiming he controls the demons and the horde will use them to crush the alliance. As many of the younger orcs wouldn't know the full scale of how bad demons are, they would be lead on still.

    It has to be something so bad they finally see him as he was in the recent event with the divine bell, a saturday cartoon villain.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Slorg View Post
    Completely agree here. Saurfang is going to have some involvement. Either he is going to challenge garrosh to a mok'gora and garrosh kills him and that causes a big split or Saurfang survives it like constellation said. Hell now that i think about it maybe garrosh finds out that thrall is helping vol'jin and orders aggra and/or thrall's son to be killed
    I don't think it will be a duel; I'd assume Saurfang would have some inkling of what's been going on, some contact with his trustworthy friends in Eitrigg and Thrall, to understand the situation. He's not stupid or belligerent, he was concerned about Garrosh since Northrend and understood the necessity for subtlety, even then. He'd know challenging Garrosh's rule outright wouldn't be smart and likely be rigged anyways. Garrosh, on the other hand, might not want him around period, and opt for an assassination, something he's already been using. I'd like to think Saurfang would survive an assassination attempt on his life because he us who he is. Personally I think Saurfang, incensed by the murder attempt wouldn't be against going *unaffiliated* and working with the Alliance to bring an end to Garrosh. He's already set aside his Horde colours once, working with Alliance races, for greater good.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroEdgeir View Post
    I reference you to the revamp of Ragefire Chasm they did for MoP, despite JUST having revamped it in Cataclysm. And it's populated by Fel Orcs. When the HELL were Fel Orcs let into Orgrimmar?

    I smell demonic influence...
    we can already see that warlocks are becoming more and more accepted into the horde. just look at the alliance start into pandaria. also, there have been fel orcs allowed into the horde since cataclysm. i'd suspect they have a hand in this in some way.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    So wait you say you know every race of the horde except for the orcs, and now your saying you believe you understand them and what they represent?

    Lets clear this up, Garrosh represents Grom Hellscream, the brutal warrior who killed countless and became a legend because of it. Orcish culture is more complex then that though, as there are many clans within orcish society, and the ideals of what an orc is doesn't just come down to one type.

    As for the points you make, Couragoues? He sacrifices his own men for power. Quck and decisive? He split his airfleet up in the twilight highlands and left himself open for attack, which is did.

    He has the aggressive nature and the battlelust to fight against the alliance, but so does every other orc, that doesn't make him special, and the orcs have not needed anymore reason to defend there lands from the alliance. He exists purely as a plot device to

    As for what the orcs would turn on him, the rest of the horde are turning against him behind his back already. All it will take is a catalyst for the orcs to realize there folly in following him, for garrosh to do something so against there way of life it causes only the most devoted garrosh loyal orc to remain with him. As of yet, that catalyst has yet to show itself.
    Blood Elves were going to defect.
    Trolls arent even used in the war because they were being held prisoner.
    Tauren are peaceful by nature, and Dezco shows you the average Taurens opinion.
    Goblins are cowardly and in it for money. Theyll defect the second things go bad.
    Im not even going to say anything about the Forsaken (Sylvanas).
    For you to question my statement is absurd.

    And yes, i know Garrosh isnt perfect, but we at the end of it all are judging him through Human eyes. If we were to RP as an orc, Garrosh is definetly everything I listed and more. Personally I too disagree with what I said, but an orc wouldnt..

    btw you contradicted yourself. First you said i was wrong thinking the non orcs would rebel and that I didnt know jack about orcs. Then you go on to describe how much you know and then say their gonna rebel cause everyother non orc race is
    Last edited by babo7000; 2012-12-12 at 10:24 PM.

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    I suppose he will turn the horde banner color from red to pink.
    NO MERCY.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I don't think that would be enough to make the orcs rebel against him, as he would simply twist that into claiming he controls the demons and the horde will use them to crush the alliance. As many of the younger orcs wouldn't know the full scale of how bad demons are, they would be lead on still.

    It has to be something so bad they finally see him as he was in the recent event with the divine bell, a saturday cartoon villain.
    Yes, but yet what did Saurfang tell Garrosh in Warsong Hold in Northrend? Something to the effect that he would kill him before he let Garrosh walk the orcs down any path of corruption again? Fel Orcs is definitely not a good thing to be messing with.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-12 at 05:26 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    And yes, i know Garrosh isnt perfect, but we at the end of it all are judging him through Human eyes. If we were to RP as an orc, Garrosh is definetly everything I listed and more. Personally I too disagree with what I said, but an orc wouldnt.
    Depends what era of orc you ask.

    Ask a new, younger orc, who never lived through the corruption, and yeah, they'd side with Garrosh's ways. Ask any orc who was freed from the internment camps by Thrall, after the demonic bloodlust wore off, and you get a whole different picture of things.

    Orcs were NOT power-hungry, battle-crazed individuals prior to Mannoroth doing his work to them. They were far more peaceful, even lived side-by-side (distantly) with the Draenei on Draenor. Garrosh is acting the way he is, cause that is how his father acted, and Grom is regaled as a legend with the Orcs. But that was not the fight against humans he is held for, but in the end, the fight against the demonic corruption that he set the orcs free from. Garrosh is missing that point, and is trading one form of corruption for another most likely. A path no veteran orc would dare want to walk down again.
    Last edited by ZeroEdgeir; 2012-12-12 at 10:27 PM.
    Games are not necessarily "easier" today. You are just a better player.
    It takes more now to impress many gamers than it did 2-5 years ago, because so much has already been seen and done.
    Many players expect to be wow'd with every release of a beloved franchise.
    These are generally NOT the fault of the developers, but the fault of many players over-hyping and/or setting expectations too high.

  15. #15
    I have the feeling that the majority of the Orc forces that will be fighting Garrosh in the Siege will be Frostwolves. Most of the other clans seem pretty content to do his bidding. After all, Garrosh needs some sort of army or it wont be much of a siege.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Ishi made some interesting points, he talks about their lost families, friends etc. Garrosh war was very costly and it seems the orcs are near their limit.
    thats cuts both ways though

    War creates loss which makes some want to cut those losses early
    While others will want to keep fighting, to ensure those losses have not been in vain
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  17. #17
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaylorsaurusRex View Post
    I have the feeling that the majority of the Orc forces that will be fighting Garrosh in the Siege will be Frostwolves. Most of the other clans seem pretty content to do his bidding. After all, Garrosh needs some sort of army or it wont be much of a siege.
    Unfortunately the frostwolves haven't done anything since vanilla, except for Thrall who is frostwolf, and drek'thar being put in a wheelchair

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-12 at 10:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    thats cuts both ways though

    War creates loss which makes some want to cut those losses early
    While others will want to keep fighting, to ensure those losses have not been in vain
    The longer you fight in a war, the more resources and lives are at risk. and without food, water and soldiers to defend, you don't have a kingdom.
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  18. #18
    He's willing to experiment with sha energy on his own men who would lay down their lives honourably for him. If he's willing to turn his own Kor'kron into mutant freaks in a mad grap for power what isn't he willing to do. And as already mentioned, how long can they go on fighting? Maybe the orcs should have been careful what they wished for and will want an end to the bloodshed, or perhaps a few orcish elders remind them of their past and the orcs road to damnation that has scarred their people for ever and the similarities Garrosh's rule has to it.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroEdgeir View Post
    I reference you to the revamp of Ragefire Chasm they did for MoP, despite JUST having revamped it in Cataclysm. And it's populated by Fel Orcs. When the HELL were Fel Orcs let into Orgrimmar?

    I smell demonic influence...
    Not Fel Orcs, but an experiment with Dark Shamans and the Firelands energies.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    thats cuts both ways though

    War creates loss which makes some want to cut those losses early
    While others will want to keep fighting, to ensure those losses have not been in vain
    The terms Garrosh has laid out for his war are different from any other wars. It's not about land or politics. Garrosh wants to commit genocide against Alliance races and enslave any whom possibly survive and surrender to him. The Alliance isn't going to roll over for that, as they have rolled over constantly for all other things past, so there is no peace treaty and negotiation to be made, only complete and decisive defeat. The Alliance knows what a Horde victory means for their people and future...

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-12 at 10:41 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulletnips View Post
    He's willing to experiment with sha energy on his own men who would lay down their lives honourably for him. If he's willing to turn his own Kor'kron into mutant freaks in a mad grap for power what isn't he willing to do.
    he didn't just turn them into "mutant freaks" they turned into Sha.

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