1. #1

    How important is weapon speed for Eminence?

    I got the HC Loshan from the coin roll on Tsulong HC this week and it has a 2.2 speed. The mace from Grand Empress has a 2.4 speed.

    How "big" of a difference is that .2 speed going to make?

  2. #2
    None. All damage abilities for Monks are calculated based on weapon DPS, it has nothing to do with speed.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    None. All damage abilities for Monks are calculated based on weapon DPS, it has nothing to do with speed.
    Even auto attack? As that's the sole meaning of Eminence healing, naturally if a slower weapon provides "higher" auto attack damage, that weapon is "better", surely?

  4. #4
    Scarab Lord ViridianWRA's Avatar
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    Two weapons, given the same DPS, regardless of speed, would provide the same HPS via eminence. The slower weapon would heal more, less often, and the faster would heal smaller amounts, more often.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by HamSandwichFace View Post
    Even auto attack? As that's the sole meaning of Eminence healing, naturally if a slower weapon provides "higher" auto attack damage, that weapon is "better", surely?
    Eminence doesn't proc off of auto-attacks correct?
    DO NOT ASK 4 NINNERVATE!>?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Peppercat View Post
    Eminence doesn't proc off of auto-attacks correct?
    Serpent's Zeal.

  7. #7
    What are you talking about? And Eminence refers to all healing via damage abilities, like Xuen, BoK, TP, and Jab. A faster weapon will swing faster for less, but a slower weapon will swing slower for more. For auto-attacks, it makes no difference. Tiger Strikes proc rates are the same and Way of the Monk adjusts attack speed and damage to make them equal. Why would the exact attack range of a weapon be relevant?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    What are you talking about? And Eminence refers to all healing via damage abilities, like Xuen, BoK, TP, and Jab. A faster weapon will swing faster for less, but a slower weapon will swing slower for more. For auto-attacks, it makes no difference. Tiger Strikes proc rates are the same and Way of the Monk adjusts attack speed and damage to make them equal. Why would the exact attack range of a weapon be relevant?
    The same reason why 1 hand dual wield classes prefer slow weapons over fast weapons? Higher damage. When I mean Eminence, I'm referring mainly to auto attack healing via SZ because that's the majority (often the 90%~) of Eminence's healing. If the weapon swings are slower then they'll do more damage, which mean they'll heal for more. How much of an impact (because remember gearing towards 3145 haste puts a 2.2 speed weapon down to 2.09) would it have going from 2.4 > 2.2. If you're attacking every 1.8 seconds (and AoE ticks are every 2 seconds, as most are) then you're going to waste some of that eminence healing.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by HamSandwichFace View Post
    The same reason why 1 hand dual wield classes prefer slow weapons over fast weapons? Higher damage.
    That's because abilities for other classes are based off weapon damage and not weapon DPS, it has absolutely nothing to do with autoattacks.

    What you're saying is nonsense, two different speed weapons with the exact same stats and DPS will provide the same results in a 10 second timespan. It always goes on injured targets so overhealing is not a concern. Weapon speed has never had an important effect on auto-attacks for any spec of any class except Rogue poison application. That's it, there's nothing to discuss.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    That's because abilities for other classes are based off weapon damage and not weapon DPS, it has absolutely nothing to do with autoattacks.

    What you're saying is nonsense, two different speed weapons with the exact same stats and DPS will provide the same results in a 10 second timespan. It always goes on injured targets so overhealing is not a concern. Weapon speed has never had an important effect on auto-attacks for any spec of any class except Rogue poison application. That's it, there's nothing to discuss.
    Okay so the math is the same. I'm not going to dispute that, but surely a slower weapon is preferable due to the way haste interacts with the auto attack? As I mentioned, I want to try out this 6k haste play style but it's not going to be worth it if it puts Loshan to a sub 2 sec weapon swing? Maybe I am being dumb (it's late) but I really this weapon speed is pretty damn important when figuring out "which is best" for SZ healing.

  11. #11
    Aren't you the guy that said that Elitist Jerks was a terrible, pointless website filled with idiots? Yet you're arguing basic mechanics and saying that they don't work the way that they do based on actual damage formulas?

    Who cares if you're AAing less than every 2 seconds? What demonstrable difference does that make in healing?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Aren't you the guy that said that Elitist Jerks was a terrible, pointless website filled with idiots? Yet you're arguing basic mechanics and saying that they don't work the way that they do based on actual damage formulas?

    Who cares if you're AAing less than every 2 seconds? What demonstrable difference does that make in healing?
    SZ can be about 20-30% of a Mistweaver's entire healing. In raids most people are topped within seconds. If you're healing every 1.8 seconds and AoE pulses every 2 seconds, you'll be healing nothing.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by HamSandwichFace View Post
    SZ can be about 20-30% of a Mistweaver's entire healing. In raids most people are topped within seconds. If you're healing every 1.8 seconds and AoE pulses every 2 seconds, you'll be healing nothing.
    Wow, your entire raid gets topped off every 2 seconds and you think that doing your healing faster than that will hurt your raid somehow? You're seriously overcomplicating this, you're making up connections that don't exist. Auto-attacking faster will not hurt your raid's healing. If your raid is getting topped off every 2 seconds, what does it matter if your auto attack doesn't fall exactly on the mark of when it happens? Worried about your ranking on the healing meter?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Wow, your entire raid gets topped off every 2 seconds and you think that doing your healing faster than that will hurt your raid somehow? You're seriously overcomplicating this, you're making up connections that don't exist. Auto-attacking faster will not hurt your raid's healing. If your raid is getting topped off every 2 seconds, what does it matter if your auto attack doesn't fall exactly on the mark of when it happens? Worried about your ranking on the healing meter?
    Min-maxing I guess, but yeah: I'm being stupid. I'm a complete failure at maths (my degree was in English Language XD) so I apologise.

    Just need that Feng OH and I can test out 6k haste play style ^_^

  15. #15
    If you want to min max eminence, grab yourself a Jin'ya.

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