It is official SWTOR is P2W

[Kelimbror]

Dear god. Does someone actually do that?

That's a whole other debate you can go research on the WoW forums lol. Technically, Blizzard does. But it's arguable and we don't need to go into that here.

[quras]

Dear god. Does someone actually do that?

Blizzard is about as close to having dailies for progression as you can get. Mains to some degree but for alts yea it's a big part of it. However, there are incoming changes but it's cause players hate blizzard dailies and have been very vocal about it.

I think even blizzard said in one interview they overdid it. To good a reward at teh end of dailies and it might as well be "absolutely necessary for progression." at that point.

[Edge-]

Dear god. Does someone actually do that?

Technically.

You need rep with certain factions to purchase some of the raid gear, and you can only get the rep through dailies (to my knowledge). As I don't play, I don't know the time investment required for any of it though.

[quras]

Technically.

You need rep with certain factions to purchase some of the raid gear, and you can only get the rep through dailies (to my knowledge). As I don't play, I don't know the time investment required for any of it though.

The best quote I heard on a time frame for daily rep was that getting to revered made you want to set cats of fire. Getting to exhaled made you wish the cats would set you on fire.

It makes me feel OK that there are no Reps to grind out in SWTOR thats for sure.

[Kelimbror]

It makes me feel OK that there are no Reps to grind out in SWTOR thats for sure.

Except that there is nothing to do in SWTOR, other than a handful of activities. Giving reps with rewards would actually give you a purpose. Right now that purpose is dailies for comms, fps for comms, ops for comms, now space for comms...annnnd...no that's it. (for PvE)

[RoninaThorstone]

Except that there is nothing to do in SWTOR, other than a handful of activities. Giving reps with rewards would actually give you a purpose. Right now that purpose is dailies for comms, fps for comms, ops for comms, now space for comms...annnnd...no that's it. (for PvE)

I think that they should take a few pointers from rift in this department.

First, I would remove the god damn orbital stations.
Second, I would add a "transport hub" by the "supplies" section of the fleet where next to the vendors for each planet there is a panel that takes you directly to the planet.
Then, I would add a "galactic conflict alert" map in the middle of the fleet, 4 screens against the middle pillar. A large hologram of the swtor galaxy where conflicts would flash red and there would be a ticker with the planet names.
Your ship would be more like housing with customization. It would have a terminal for instances and raids so you could turn in the end of instance quests there.
They should add a mentor system so you can down level to the planet event you want to participate in.
Have about 4 different events per planet and cycle through them.
I'm okay with reputation grinds so long as they are somewhat fun. Doing world events is fun. Getting rep and a magical fire squirrel is bonus.

[quras]

Except that there is nothing to do in SWTOR, other than a handful of activities. Giving reps with rewards would actually give you a purpose. Right now that purpose is dailies for comms, fps for comms, ops for comms, now space for comms...annnnd...no that's it. (for PvE)

And the great thing about all that is it drives you to one goal, FP or ops gear.

You can do any of them or none of them and it gets your toon to a singular goal at different paces. I like that.

While you could argue it's still a daily, I'd much rather spend my time in a FP or ops with others than running the same dailies over and over. At least in a FP, There is a chance of some chaos and not just the grind after grind after grind.

Keep that reputation grind out. Next to dailies that another terrible idea.

Sure there needs to be some other things to do as end game cannot be all there is. I can agree with you on that but for me it can evolve beyond rep grinds and dailies. Maybe it's space rail shooter missions? Maybe it a refined crafting/mission crew skills (which the game needs anyway), Maybe it pod racing or sabacc or any number of things I'm sure has been mentioned but not implemented yet.

Just please leave out rep grinds and keep dailies to a minimum.



I really like that idea HK. Just for me, leave out the rep grind and just have random world events with rewards. You could show up solo or in a group.

[Deleted]

I might just resub to play a space mission again, those were awesome

[RoninaThorstone]

I really like that idea HK. Just for me, leave out the rep grind and just have random world events with rewards.

Speaking of which, I am so glad that I can summon air rifts. I am totally going to try and get that rare drop Christmas mount.

But yeah. Random rewards work too.

[Kelimbror]

Speaking of which, I am so glad that I can summon air rifts. I am totally going to try and get that rare drop Christmas mount.

But yeah. Random rewards work too.

Stop making me want to play that more. I'm stuck at work and starting to feel under the weather. I had a blast ninja spamming some yule presents and I got a snowman pet/trinket thing. Already addicted. But I digress...sorry I've been wanting to talk about this stuff all day.

Back to your regular SWTOR Christmas Special

[quras]

Speaking of which, I am so glad that I can summon air rifts. I am totally going to try and get that rare drop Christmas mount.

But yeah. Random rewards work too.

Yea, keep it a random reward. It would be incentive for people to do them over and over but not feel like they have to do them everyday to reach some end goal max rep.

The randomness would keep people coming.

You could even have a static reward like BH comms that eventually got you to something should your luck with the RNG be terrible. (which mine has been known to be)

[Leonard McCoy]

Blizz is a very smart and talented company, that makes every decision intentionally. Like, very intentionally. The reason we see so many dailies in MoP, especially compared to other expansions, is because the data they've pulled shows that whether people bitch about them or not, people do dailies, and stick around to do more of them if they are part of progression (a la Firelands dailies).

If dailies were causing people to leave, Blizz wouldn't be putting such a focus on them. They would see that people aren't doing them both through feedback and through their own internal numbers. This isn't the case.

Don't get me wrong, I loathe dailies. The only time I do them is when they happen to be for something I'm doing already (killing Rift creatures in Rift for example), or when they are absolutely necessary for progression. Other than that, I think they're the lowest form of content development for a MMO and refuse to participate in them (one of the reasons I'm usually poor in MMO's). But I can't deny the power of dailies as a player retention tool.

Not quite. I agree they are a smart company and they take lots of research into account but they get mislead by the feedback and research being given to them often. Remember hard dungeons? That decision was based on feedback and research as well and LOOK how it back fired. So now we come to daily quests and the impteus behind them which is ostensible because people are bored. Dailies are causing people to leave and and as such in 5.1 you see a reduced importance in them. The only reason they haven't abandoned the model entirely at this point is that so much of their design philosophy this time around is centered around them. They are not and have never been a tool for player retention. Progression is the tool for player retention. As long as people feel they are getting stronger and rewarded for logging in (at a decent pace) then people will stay. I've said it a million times over now but being bored because you've exhausted the rewarding content is no different form being bored because dailies suck or the available content to you isn't rewarding or enjoyable enough.

Look dailies in wow and in mmorpgs have been around for AGES and your telling me only now is genius Blizzard getting around to realizing that dailies keep people subbed? Was dailies the reason tbc and wotlk exploded? Of course not. Dailies existed in cataclysm to and if you want I can reproduce a list of all the available dailies that existed in the game right up until then? They have NEVER been a cure for boredom and hence player retention because they are themselves boring and unrewarding. Nobody in their right mind thinks dailies give people what they want enough to remain subbed. I am so glad swtor never made dailies a huge part of the game or had any focus on them. They are the lowest form of content a developer can release.

[Argroth]

Am I the only crazy person who thinks being able to instantly get things for money is both more effective and efficient than having to grind for hours doing any activity to get the same things?

Yes, some people actually get games to play them, not just skip to the ending parts. Some people believe you should earn what you get and not just get what you want because you throw money away. Some people believe it is unfair and annoying that someone can do what they have earned because the other person is lazy and bad with money to just throw it away on something you can get for free.

People get ahead in life enough because they have money to waste we don't need it in our games as well.

[gamz247]

On average it takes 41.25 BH Comms to get a piece of BH gear. You can also get BiS (for many classes) amorings for around the same average. You get 2BH comms per mission, per day, times 6 missions for space...12 a day. You can quickly see how not doing these missions is a severe disadvantage.

I haven't seen these operations (ie Operation Far Cradle Strike) in my flight mission log since about 4am Wednesday. In fact, Operation Far Cradle Strike was the only one I've seen at all. Originally, it sounded like these would be weekly missions. Are you saying they're each on their own daily timer?

[Kelimbror]

I haven't seen these operations (ie Operation Far Cradle Strike) in my flight mission log since about 4am Wednesday. In fact, Operation Far Cradle Strike was the only one I've seen at all. Originally, it sounded like these would be weekly missions. Are you saying they're each on their own daily timer?

They were supposed to be daily...are they weekly now? If that's the case then they aren't even worth the time to do them still.

Hmm...apparently they reset like shown below. It's only 14 BH comms a week...soo...not as big an issue, but still gimping yourself to not do them. Considering most people don't have the comms saved up to buy the level 7 gear, this is even worse of a slap in the face really. Also pretty stupid to waste real money on them for 14 comms a week, though it is an extra epic a month.

Day	Missions (Empire/Republic)	Rewards (Commendations)
Monday	Far Cradle Strike/Regnant Station Assault	2 Black Hole, 5 Daily, and 40 Fleet
Tuesday	Kabal Station Defense/Ardis Outpost Fortification	2 Black Hole, 5 Daily, and 40 Fleet
Wednesday	Kanz Minefield/ New Cov Asteroid Field	2 Black Hole, 5 Daily, and 40 Fleet
Thursday	Duma Strike/Baros Ambush
Friday	Lorta Escort/Hypori Escort	2 Black Hole, 5 Daily, and 40 Fleet
Saturday	Cha Raaba Assault/Thanium Disruption	2 Black Hole, 5 Daily, and 40 Fleet
Sunday	Cha Raaba Assault/Thanium Disruption + Duma Strike/Baros Ambush	4 Black Hole, 10 Daily, 80 Fleet

[gamz247]

They were supposed to be daily...are they weekly now? If that's the case then they aren't even worth the time to do them still.

I'm in my ship now, and I have no mission to choose from among the ones you listed. Maybe once you do one for the week, you can't do another? I guess I really won't know the truth until Tuesday.

[Kelimbror]

I'm in my ship now, and I have no mission to choose from among the ones you listed. Maybe once you do one for the week, you can't do another? I guess I really won't know the truth until Tuesday.

Look at the list I posted. It says when the specific ones become available.

It's an awfully confusing system that isn't explained to players at all.

[gamz247]

Look at the list I posted. It says when the specific ones become available.

It's an awfully confusing system that isn't explained to players at all.

Well, if that were the case, then I'd have the Lorta Escort operation available to me, but I don't.

[Kelimbror]

Well, if that were the case, then I'd have the Lorta Escort operation available to me, but I don't.

Then it's potentially bugged...that's posted from dulfy's write up of the space missions and it hasn't been changed since written. It wouldn't surprise me.

[Armourboy]

Blizz effort is a bit questionable to be honest ... my D3 acc gets spammed by friend invites by bots with www as their messages all day long. How hard is it to make a filter for that I wonder.

You have to keep in mind, their issue isn't making a filter, their issue is making a filter that doesn't end up messing with legit accounts. There usually bot banning process is to compile a large list, try and fix those loopholes, and then do a mass ban. Even by doing that they usually have several legit accounts that get caught up in the process. Granted, I think they should take a more serious look at what individual players are sending them daily, but considering the number of bots and the number of people playing, it would take an army of GM's to deal with them on a daily basis. Its one of the massive downsides of being that large.

As far as the Daily argument goes, the reason its gotten such a backlash in MoP is because everything is gated by them. Gear is gated by them, recipes, hell even other daily reps are gated behind them. Ghostcrawler said the later part was done to keep people from needing to do so many right at the start, but it had the bad side effect of killing alt progression, especially for crafting alts. Prior to this expansion I was an altaholic, and the system in place completely killed my drive to level any of them. However, it has also had the side effect of giving me so much to do on the main, that I don't really have the time to play alts like I used to, so I actually like that part of it.

WoW has had dailies forever, going back to TBC when they were brought in. They were used primarily though for side story, mounts, a few filler pieces of gear, and just a way to blow time. MoP really is the first time where everyone had to do them. Yes people keep trying to argue that they aren't required to progress, and technically you don't need the upgrades to raid. Players though are not going to be content with 476 or 483 gear when 489 or 496 gear is slapping them in the face from doing such an easy task as doing dailies. Yes it may be boring, but at this point and time if you want your Valor points to be useful at all they are required.

P.S. Sorry if this isn't really SWTOR related, just wanted to respond to the post and some of the other things brought up. Post makes me sound way too much like a Blizzard fanboy >.<