Is Destruction really as bad as people say?

[Politicus]

I've been playing Affliction/Demonology, just can't stand the new Destruction playstyle

So I can't really say whether Destruction is good or bad (Since I haven't been playing it), but on my realm, US-Farstriders (RP server) I haven't come across a destro warlock that can pull equivalent dps to myself while I've been playing aff/demo. (Course, my realm is towards rock bottom in terms of progression, so take what I said with a grain of salt)

I just have to ask though, how can yall stand the playstyle change? I was a diehard destro warlock since BC, but upon trying destro with how it is in Mists, has just got me filled with complete dislike for the spec. I only tried it in some 5 man heroics, so is the playstyle quite a bit different when raiding?

Just curious.

[Brusalk]

I've been playing Affliction/Demonology, just can't stand the new Destruction playstyle

So I can't really say whether Destruction is good or bad (Since I haven't been playing it), but on my realm, US-Farstriders (RP server) I haven't come across a destro warlock that can pull equivalent dps to myself while I've been playing aff/demo. (Course, my realm is towards rock bottom in terms of progression, so take what I said with a grain of salt)

I just have to ask though, how can yall stand the playstyle change? I was a diehard destro warlock since BC, but upon trying destro with how it is in Mists, has just got me filled with complete dislike for the spec. I only tried it in some 5 man heroics, so is the playstyle quite a bit different when raiding?

Just curious.

I briefly played as a destro lock pre-5.0 and hated soul fire and it's buff with a burning, intense passion. The new destruction playstyle is amazingly fun and interesting to play in raids. The spec pure single target is lackluster, but it's potential complexity on fights with more than one mob or burn phases is bar none.

If you want to watch some (decent to great) destro raid-play you can look up my name on youtube. I have vids of most of the fights this tier on heroic as destruction (with quite a few 1st/2nd destro parses being the gameplay)

I love destro and I hope that they don't change the playstyle, just the numbers. We need a single target buff (my vote is on either Immo or Incin damage), but our cleave is exceptional.

[Bloodfire]

I briefly played as a destro lock pre-5.0 and hated soul fire and it's buff with a burning, intense passion. The new destruction playstyle is amazingly fun and interesting to play in raids. The spec pure single target is lackluster, but it's potential complexity on fights with more than one mob or burn phases is bar none.

If you want to watch some (decent to great) destro raid-play you can look up my name on youtube. I have vids of most of the fights this tier on heroic as destruction (with quite a few 1st/2nd destro parses being the gameplay)

I love destro and I hope that they don't change the playstyle, just the numbers. We need a single target buff (my vote is on either Immo or Incin damage), but our cleave is exceptional.

Could you please make a short video about rotation in general and how should destro lock open?
I'm curious about it

[Medieve]

I've got some vid of both aff and destro in 10 man normal and HC progression on my stream as well, Belledanna of Neolutum, not Balledanna as CDShader put it in on me. We've hit a wall recently with 25 man splitting into 2 10 man raids (we finally caved after running 25's since BC, damn you Blizzard!!!) and a few other recruitment issues, but we're finally progressing into HC's again. I only raid as Aff or Destro, I can't find a space where Demo does it better than either Aff or Destro.

[Skorn]

Could you please make a short video about rotation in general and how should destro lock open?
I'm curious about it

you can do pretty much anything as destro and do well, there is no such thing a mop destro warlock guide to anything

[Bloodfire]

you can do pretty much anything as destro and do well, there is no such thing a mop destro warlock guide to anything

Just basic mechanics.
Still not used to destro spec only, afflic is booooooring (

[Drugshock]

Just basic mechanics.
Still not used to destro spec only, afflic is booooooring (

I'd love a video like that too

[Lucidprodigy]

I'm still in awe of how Brusalk casts Rain of Fire and it's immediately a huge block of meteors falling down!
Destruction for me is hella fun, and I still can't believe it hasn't been given more credit than it should have. I'd admit not every single fight is ment to be played as destruction, but I would be damned if I can't find more ways to do more dps as destruction over any other spec!

[Medieve]

In the warlock UI thread, there's an explanation of how to do it. Possibly in another thread as well, I'll see if I can track it down for you.

Edit: Can't find the thread I saw it in currently, but apparently typing the command within the "'s to type is "/console SpellEffectLevel (number)" and inserting a number for (number) between 1 and 5000 will increase the density. I believe he uses 100.

For example, you'd type in: /console SpellEffectLevel 100

and that would increase the density. You also have to set particle density in your video options as high as possible. It will lag your computer if you don't have a higher end graphics card.

[Tzalix]

http://simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html

In theory on a Patchwerk fight, Destruction is the weakest of the Warlock specs, but it doesn't make it as bad as some would make it out to be. It's still a powerful spec when played correctly, and can very well be the best Warlock specs for fights like Gara'jal and Elegon.

[Brusalk]

Could you please make a short video about rotation in general and how should destro lock open?
I'm curious about it

Sure. Anything you'd like me to be sure to go over?

[Kirroth]

Sure. Anything you'd like me to be sure to go over?

What I'd love to see is some simple rule of thumb priority advice for Destro. Like when using Dark Soul, is it better to prioritize getting out an extra Chaos Bolt cast (for buffed damage) or getting a last second renewal on Immolate (for more crit-ticks generating Embers)? Where in the priority stack does keeping Conflag from capping out at two charges fall? How many targets makes it worth using RoF for Ember generation? Is it best to use Havoc on cooldown or try to line it up with buffs?

Destro is not a complicated spec, but it does still have choices to make and there's very little in the way of advice out there. If you feel confident in your ability to lay out broad guidelines for generally optimal play, I think the Destro community would be very thankful.

[Satchel]

Sure. Anything you'd like me to be sure to go over?

Hmmm..

Is it always better to chain conflags for 6x backdrafts in a row, or should I do something different?

When at say 3x burning embers, should i always pop 3x CB (single target) or just throw one and do something else etc.?

I'd love some commentary on raid encounters in general i suppose. When to cast what and why you cast that instead of something else.

[Bloodfire]

Sure. Anything you'd like me to be sure to go over?

A bit of comments plus some of tips and tricks would be nice also.
If you can ofc :P

[Bonkura]

Is it always better to chain conflags for 6x backdrafts in a row, or should I do something different?

This is very simple. Just avoid having 2 charges of conflag. No need to stack backdraft.

[Lucidprodigy]

In the warlock UI thread, there's an explanation of how to do it. Possibly in another thread as well, I'll see if I can track it down for you.

Edit: Can't find the thread I saw it in currently, but apparently typing the command within the "'s to type is "/console SpellEffectLevel (number)" and inserting a number for (number) between 1 and 5000 will increase the density. I believe he uses 100.

For example, you'd type in: /console SpellEffectLevel 100

and that would increase the density. You also have to set particle density in your video options as high as possible. It will lag your computer if you don't have a higher end graphics card.

Thank you so much! I had to get into my config.wtf file and add: SET SpellEffectLevel "75" at the bottom of the list while not logged in game.
Okay, going back on track...sorta. There isn't any real kept up guide of how destruction is now-a-days because let's face it, Destruction is on the back burner! It would be nice to see one spring up besides everything I have tested and pieced together. Which I am not confident enough or else I would write one up.
Correct me if I am wrong and this is really off-topic but...
Stat priority - 15% hit, at least 2021 haste (non goblin, and 5% raid haste included) for extra tick on immolate, mastery, crit.
Opening - immolate on pull, dark soul + trinkets, I use 1x chaos bolt, 1x conflag, 2x incinerate, 1x chaos bolt before procs wear off, 1x conflag, incinerate until conflag comes up, and use havoc plus chaos bolt if above 25% or 3x soulburn lower than 25%. 3x Chaos bolt if hero or timewarp was used and I have lower than 2 stacks of backdraft.
The general rule of thumb is using the opportunity whenever dark soul is up to cast your chaos bolts which stack with a dot from pandemic, but never get full embers. Use conflag whenever its up but opening rotation is the exception to the rule so you can spread out casts whenever it recharges and has to be recast again. Never cast chaos bolt with more than 2 backdrafts. I tend to cast havoc whenever on cooldown and there is an add. Also for multiple adds or for faster ember regen casting Rain of Fire helps. Finally for multiple adds keep rain of fire and fire and brimstone + immolate up, then keep casting more fire and brimstone + incinerate than conflags.
I apologize if I am completely steering anyone that reads this off course. Hopefully a top destruction lock like Zumzum or Brusalk for example shows the rest of the destro lock community what its all about!

[Gurushockin]

I'm playing Destro right now, first night raiding as it and I did okay. Not to bad of a spec over all imo, if you play it right your raid leader should have no problem letting you play it. Kept up with our other lock and he was playing affliction and had much better gear than I =)

[Kirroth]

Kept up with our other lock and he was playing affliction and had much better gear than I =)

What so often gets overlooked is that Simcraft type numbers are the result of mathematically optimal play. Actual people can get those sort of results, but you usually only see it in a very small segment of the community. Typical these are the sort of people who are pushing heroic raid clears.

For the rest of us, you have to consider the effects of sub-optimal play; slower reaction times, less situational awareness, a weaker grasp of the priority effects of every possible variable. Now, Simcraft doesn't tell you is how much of a DPS loss sub-optimal play has on those numbers. What makes this important is that the effect isn't the same on different classes and specs.

My impression so far is that Afflic is one of those specs that experiences a sharp drop from maximum potential output with sub-optimal play. Destro, on the other hand, seems a lot more forgiving. Oh, there's still room to push higher, if you get better at lining up Chaos Bolts with procs or squeezing the more out of Havoc. But being just a bit less sharp doesn't result in a sudden drop of performance the same way.

That's why I don't hesitate to recommend Destro to people. Sure, Afflic has been the go-to for heroic raiding for good reason. That doesn't mean everyone just mindlessly bandwagon onto it as well. The right spec for the right person in the right circumstances is what's important.

[kenshinag]

I played Destro in cata and loved it. When they simplified it in mop I lost interest, mostly because it's not as exciting. Now I play Affliction. I think I could probably pull similar numbers give or take 15k dps or so, depending on the fight, by playing Destro. It just doesn't keep my interest anymore.

To answer the question though, I don't think it is that bad depending on the fight. It'll probably not do too bad on cleave/aoe fights. Luckily my RL let's me play whatever I want so I choose Aff.

[Elanas]

For the rest of us, you have to consider the effects of sub-optimal play; slower reaction times, less situational awareness, a weaker grasp of the priority effects of every possible variable. Now, Simcraft doesn't tell you is how much of a DPS loss sub-optimal play has on those numbers. What makes this important is that the effect isn't the same on different classes and specs.

It makes me so glad to see others talk about this. There are human factors (fatigue, maybe being sick, distractions) and technical ones (lag, etc.) that can really impede your ability to keep up desired actions. And we all respond differently based on a myriad of conscious and unconscious considerations.