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  1. #1

    how to motivate people to raid

    25 men are quite difficult to get online at raid start, dont you think. Well, last night we had 7 people to not show up. . Frustrated, our officers called the night and next sunday we would continue. Now what i fear is that the same would happen again. We just recovered from a handful of people server hopping. We lost one of our main tank, few healers and few high dpsers. The guild is having new recruits but we havent got to test them yet as our old guildies are either at work or just unsigning for reasons unknown.

    What to do to get our s**t back together? We had a week or two now a few 10man runs but most of us arent interested on running 10s.

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire Bloodfire's Avatar
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    IMO you should decide what's better for you atm, either divide into 2 10ppl or just bring up a few normal players into 25 (and always keep about 10 or more people as reserve if smb doesn't show up).

    P.S.: I'm raiding 10ppl cuz my PC is too slow to handle 25s

  3. #3
    We currently cannot support 2x10 because of our server is filled with warrior tanks and dps we already have plenty of (ie. Wars rogues spellcasters, druids in general ) .
    And if our main main tank (guess, its a warrior ) and one of the top dps is skipping, we are pretty much in a deadlock in terms of progression :/

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire Bloodfire's Avatar
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    Try to search smb who's ready to transfer, perhaps that might do.

  5. #5
    Why aren't they showing up?

    If you don't know, you need to find out. If you do know, you need to work at fixing the issue, and should be very vocal/obvious that you are working at fixing the issue.

  6. #6
    Field Marshal stresskiller's Avatar
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    what might help is to get the real id of those players cause they wouldn't be the 1st that raid on another realm while you are waiting.

  7. #7
    Expansion is not "new and shinny" anymore. People are going afk and many even if they don't, lose interest to push content.

    LFR is taking its toll, changing people habbits gradually.
    Same content after all...How many more times should people be in the same places.

    25 is the same with 10, according to blizzard.
    Think about how much more hassle, going through tactics and coordinating 25 people in combat has vs 10. Answer? No comment...
    The fact that in a 25 there is always a new face around, as you re trying to carry on progressing, at a boss you havent kill before, makes it "even better".

    Rewind the wheel of time.
    Think Ulduar, or even better think Black Temple and Sunwell.

    The weight that those names carry. The epicness, the mystery, the excitement. The feeling that you re doing something special.

    Back to the present now, we find ourselves stressed to have the same bosses killed in LFR before the raiding night, to claim the loot, so we have the best chances to kill the bosses in the "challenging version".
    We have a 10 man guild that is formed after Pandaland went live, over one reset, claiming more progress than you do, getting their hands on the same loot faster, and the same achievements faster, with less hassle and less problems.
    So...motivation...For what?
    During the first 72 days in MoP raids 33000+ guilds killed at least a boss in tier 14...
    During 72 days in dragon soul the number was 45000+ kills.
    During ICC the number was 57000+ guilds.


    Should i even mention, that the Ratio 10:25 is getting more and more in favor to 10 man, meaning that we also have less raiding slots for a given number of guilds killing a boss?
    Today for examble there are 2700 guilds that did a boss in 25, after 72 days the raids are available.
    After 72 days Icecrown Citadel was live, we had 26000+ killing at least the first boss.

    So yea...lets think what went wrong and people today are not motivated...to raid and most importantly to raid 25.

    Neverthe less, good luck m8, i hope you will solve the riddle and you will still be able to raid the size you prefer with the people you like.
    Last edited by Archidamos; 2012-12-14 at 11:04 AM.

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral HavelTheRock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archidamos View Post
    During the first 72 days in MoP raids 33000+ guilds killed at least a boss in tier 14...
    During 72 days in dragon soul the number was 45000+ kills.
    During ICC the number was 57000+ guilds.


    Should i even mention, that the Ratio 10:25 is getting more and more in favor to 10 man, meaning that we also have less raiding slots for a given number of guilds killing a boss?
    Today for examble there are 2700 guilds that did a boss in 25, after 72 days the raids are available.
    After 72 days Icecrown Citadel was live, we had 26000+ killing at least the first boss.
    You can't compare first tier kills with end tier kills, especially in DS and ICC both of which had progressive nerfs, some of which would have been activated within the first 72 days.

    Get some numbers from T7/T11 to make your argument valid.

  9. #9
    I miss also 25 man raiding. But its seems every guild on my server is 10 man lol. WTB transfer!!!!

  10. #10
    Only way to motivate them is making sure their spot is at risk if they don't show up.

    Internal competition is the key there.

    Plus the loot system obviously, people not showing up were not getting EP in our EPGP system, so it was one incentive to show up too.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Maleficia View Post
    You can't compare first tier kills with end tier kills, especially in DS and ICC both of which had progressive nerfs, some of which would have been activated within the first 72 days.

    Get some numbers from T7/T11 to make your argument valid.
    46467 tier 11...4279 managed it in 25.
    So yeah, i hope this is valid enough for you...
    ICC buff was not activated by the 72nd day. Not even the 5%. DS had 5% already.

    My argument was valid even without this. Raiding is on a steady decline.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodfire View Post
    Try to search smb who's ready to transfer, perhaps that might do.
    What is smb?

  13. #13
    It started with ToC. 10, 10hc, 25 and 25hc on separate lockouts - insane lol.
    Then they reduced it to 10 and 25, but either normal or heroic. (Gear was different at least, so people ran both for some items).
    Then at DS they even went further... adding LFR.

    So you now progress 3 times through the same events. LFR, normal and heroic. Burnout-ville if you ask me. Please return to the days of single difficulty (hard.) raiding tiers with attunements and raid progression.

    I'll give an example on how raid progression worked in TBC for instance :

    Raiding Tier 4 - Karazhan (10man) - youhad to complete an attunement which involved a couple of quests out in the world, then running a couple of heroic dungeons to complete it (Shadow Labyrinth) \\ Gruul's Lair.
    Raiding Tier 5 - Serpent Shrine Cavern (25man) - You had to run some dungeon quests (Slave Pen and Underbog HC) and then kill Nightbane in Karazhan. Tempest Keep (25man) had a huge quest chain which culminated in the Trials of the Naaru. Timed run in Shattered Halls, saving Millhouse Manastorm in Arcatraz and also Steamvaults HC, which culminated on having to kill Magtheridon on his lair (the stand alone boss of the tier).
    Raiding Tier 6 - Mount Hyjal (25man) which required you to kill both Vashj (SSC) and Kael'thas (TK) before entering. Black Temple (25man) which required you to kill the first boss in Mount Hyjal (Winterchill)...

    (Vanilla was the same with MC<BWL<AQ<NAXX...)

    And the fun\best part was, each guild was progressing at it's own pace, at its current tier, aiming to reach higher, but without 'crying' about others... Whilst some guilds were in Black Temple, others were progressing through SSC\TK. At THEIR OWN PACE. Instances didn't need buffs like ICC\DS, nor massive nerfs like Cata tier1... and even better, content lasted an entire expansion. You ran the instances longer, but not as many times as you do now with LFR\normal\heroic, specially with most heroic fights just consisting of higher dmg and higher hp on the boss... at least give us Firefighter\Alone in the Darkness quality of Heroic Fights.

    The only issue that guilds might have was replacing raiders, and having to attune them up to their current situation, and it got a bit exhausting after a bit, but it was accepted as the price of having raid progression.

    Now?

    You have content released, and everyone needs to experience it on the first week, because we're all entitled to it. And if you don't finish the content in a couple of months, it get's nerfed or you get buffed. And when the following tier is released, all the previous content is made obsolete, with no reason to return what so ever, except for the occasional mount or flavor item. And the cycle repeats.

    Why can't people just progress at their own pace, with each tier of raiding having it's difficulty increase, and having different guilds with different time restraints progress at their own pace?

    and ofcourse, making 10man \ 25man rewards and achievements equal... it's just killing 25man guilds. Badly. The realm i played in decreased for having swarms of 25man guilds in the BC, to dozens in Wotlk and less then a handful now. There are now 3 25man guilds when there were countless others... and not by lack of players on the realm, considering there are hundreds of 10man guilds. I find it sad.
    Last edited by hulkgor; 2012-12-15 at 06:49 AM.

  14. #14
    That was some kind of rant!

    So how does the OP motivate his raiders? lol

  15. #15
    Raiders dont need to be motivated, they WANT to raid.

    If you don't have 25 actual raiders, you need to recruit until you do.

    Personally, I'd do whatever it takes to make sure the next raid actually goes somewhere, if that means pugging in some fresh 90s in greens and only downing 1 boss, then so be it. If progression suffers because you relied on certain individuals who no-showed, the rest of your raid will blame those individuals. If the raids simply don't happen multiple weeks in a row, they will blame the raidleader and guildleader. And you'll find that those 7 absences quickly become 17 absences.

  16. #16
    I put together a bunch of articles on how I built and maintained raid teams. I started leading raids in MC and these articles are from my perspective and by no means the be all end all of advice but if they help. Great! http://www.ihazlead.com
    Being generally horrible but helpful since Molten Core;
    When leading was more about managing bathroom breaks than boss mechanics.
    http://www.ihazlead.com - Raid leading guides, tutorials, and videos.

  17. #17
    From my personal experience, a big part of "motivating" your raiders is the amount of effort you put in to raiding as a raidleader (and your officer team), people are alot less likely to just not show if shits been taken serious by the people running it and thus indirectly motivating them to give a shit.

  18. #18
    Honestly I love lfr but the sad truth is that lots of people who would normally be raiding normal raids just got filtered into lfr. It's convenient, way more convenient than getting your shit together and committing to a schedule with 9 other people assuming you can get 9 other people on the same schedule.

  19. #19
    You have to recruit more people. If people do not show up and do not bother to say anything either they don't care or they have already left wow. In the first case you might try talking to them or you might have to do waht you also have to do in the second place, try to find motivated new raiders.
    But honestly finding motivated new raiders for raiding guilds i really do not know.
    In my opinion now a days being in a serious raid guild also compels you to each week to do enough daylies to get your 3 coins and each week you have to cap valor so that you can upgrade your gear, the only positive now a days is that getting flasks and repair gold is easier, but if you have to go for very good food it gets a bit more expensive.
    Where as in the old days you could just raid, you had to get repair gold and flasks and occasionally it would be nice to put some fish feast into the gbank.

    Considering that the constant time commitment that you have to put into raiding and preparation for raiding, so that in your own eyes and in those of your guildmates eyes you are optimally prepared, has increased.
    And yes i know some guilds are not as strict concerning this, but people who look outside into raiding make their own thoughts and prejudice about it and the time commitment and have to decide is it really worth it. And that is even before they ask themselves is it really worth raiding 25 over 10^^

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    and ofcourse, making 10man \ 25man rewards and achievements equal... it's just killing 25man guilds. Badly. The realm i played in decreased for having swarms of 25man guilds in the BC, to dozens in Wotlk and less then a handful now. There are now 3 25man guilds when there were countless others... and not by lack of players on the realm, considering there are hundreds of 10man guilds. I find it sad.
    good, if people don't want to run 25 mans then they deserve to die

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