1. #1

    Could someone explain PvP to me?

    Because after 6 years I just don't get it.

    I come from the rest of the video game world where shit "is what it is." I've never understood the mentality with the WoW PvP populace at all. While not really the best analogy, what always comes to my mind is something along the lines of an owner of the Eclipse GSX bitching that it under preforms an Lancer Evolution and how the Lancer needs fixed because of this.

    I think PvP can "be fun" but I find it irrational to expect such a system to be balanced. We already have "balanced" games out there; why aren't they off playing those which usually don't run $15 a month instead of constantly complaining that "this shit is broke" or "needs fixed now!!"

    So I'm honestly, honestly, honestly, wonder wtf is going on? Why stick paying WoW money for PvP when it's never been "balanced?" Why not invest your money into other games? I don't see how the PvP here, even on paper in happy fantasy theory space vacuum pony land, is some how so god damn amazing that you just refuse to give up hope or "the good fight."

    So what's the deal?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by hakujinbakasama View Post
    Because after 6 years I just don't get it.

    I come from the rest of the video game world where shit "is what it is." I've never understood the mentality with the WoW PvP populace at all. While not really the best analogy, what always comes to my mind is something along the lines of an owner of the Eclipse GSX bitching that it under preforms an Lancer Evolution and how the Lancer needs fixed because of this.

    I think PvP can "be fun" but I find it irrational to expect such a system to be balanced. We already have "balanced" games out there; why aren't they off playing those which usually don't run $15 a month instead of constantly complaining that "this shit is broke" or "needs fixed now!!"

    So I'm honestly, honestly, honestly, wonder wtf is going on? Why stick paying WoW money for PvP when it's never been "balanced?" Why not invest your money into other games? I don't see how the PvP here, even on paper in happy fantasy theory space vacuum pony land, is some how so god damn amazing that you just refuse to give up hope or "the good fight."

    So what's the deal?

    WOW pvp sucks but is still better then the other crap out there. There is no other game that has beetter pvp then wow. Rift, SWTOR, GW2, have some interesting pvp but in the end wow pvp is better, the game is more fluent, it reacts better, you have more free with what you can do and what you can control.

    If you want to make your pet do this and after do that, you can create macros for it, other games don't allow you.

    WOW pvp is shit but it is good shit.


    Is there better pvp games? hell yeah, SCII and LOL come to mind but they are different games.

    You can't compare Magic the Gathering to Uno just cause they are both card games. Like you can't compare a MMORPG game to a RTS/MOBA just cause they are both online pc games.
    Bad - This is a bad player, he refuses to learn how to play correctly.
    Casual - This is a player that will let everything else take priority over wow.
    Hardcore - This is a player that is fine with putting things on hold while he's on wow.
    Bad/Good - Measure of Skill.
    Casual/Hardcore - Measure of Time

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Etna View Post
    WOW pvp sucks but is still better then the other crap out there. There is no other game that has beetter pvp then wow. Rift, SWTOR, GW2, have some interesting pvp but in the end wow pvp is better, the game is more fluent, it reacts better, you have more free with what you can do and what you can control.

    If you want to make your pet do this and after do that, you can create macros for it, other games don't allow you.

    WOW pvp is shit but it is good shit.


    Is there better pvp games? hell yeah, SCII and LOL come to mind but they are different games.

    You can't compare Magic the Gathering to Uno just cause they are both card games. Like you can't compare a MMORPG game to a RTS/MOBA just cause they are both online pc games.
    So it's because it's an "mmo" style rpg and that's all? I'll admit that I can't really think of a "better" compairso game beyond another mmo, but I do some how doubt that it was "mmo pvp" which brought them to wow in the first place. If it had been, within 5 mins of it they would have quit the game. Or is my point some how off.

    It equates to "MMO X's pvp was shit; I'll try WoW. This PvP is also shit, think I'll keep playing and bitching about it."

    At some point I'd think you'd just default to realizing they'd then be fitting the role of insanity. The problem is that MMO PvP will and can never be balanced because it's only 1/26th (making shit up) of the game. There are so many facets that are effected and thus balance probably could never be achieved. Hell, wasn't the Warhammer game basically just a PVP MMO with "some" pve. Didn't that fail?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Etna View Post
    WOW pvp sucks but is still better then the other crap out there. There is no other game that has beetter pvp then wow. Rift, SWTOR, GW2, have some interesting pvp but in the end wow pvp is better, the game is more fluent, it reacts better, you have more free with what you can do and what you can control.

    If you want to make your pet do this and after do that, you can create macros for it, other games don't allow you.

    WOW pvp is shit but it is good shit.


    Is there better pvp games? hell yeah, SCII and LOL come to mind but they are different games.

    You can't compare Magic the Gathering to Uno just cause they are both card games. Like you can't compare a MMORPG game to a RTS/MOBA just cause they are both online pc games.
    Great response. I agree that, in terms of MMOs, there is some good potential but the PvP in WoW is more enjoyable. For what it's worth, I also enjoyed the PvP in SW:TOR, as it was also pretty responsive, and I rather enjoyed their version of CC and Diminishing Returns (for what I understood it to be, anyway).

    But the OP also makes a great point with the car analogy in terms of how unreasonable WoW PvPers are when it comes to demands for balance. But I believe this is by Blizzard's design. We all know this company will straight uber-buff a class (4.3 Rogue) if it becomes severely underrepresented. So while the car analogy pretty much translates into "don't like what you picked? Re-roll something else" and that kind of FotM mentality drives me mad, Blizzard creates FotM re-rollers on their own, probably intentionally. Because they know that there are players that will gravitate to a new, recently buffed class just to gain an advantage.

    P.S. Etna your sig is spot on! Love it.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Etna View Post
    WOW pvp sucks but is still better then the other crap out there. There is no other game that has beetter pvp then wow. Rift, SWTOR, GW2, have some interesting pvp but in the end wow pvp is better, the game is more fluent, it reacts better, you have more free with what you can do and what you can control.

    If you want to make your pet do this and after do that, you can create macros for it, other games don't allow you.

    WOW pvp is shit but it is good shit.


    Is there better pvp games? hell yeah, SCII and LOL come to mind but they are different games.

    You can't compare Magic the Gathering to Uno just cause they are both card games. Like you can't compare a MMORPG game to a RTS/MOBA just cause they are both online pc games.
    Great post. This is what keeps me subscribed to WoW. I played to PvE for the first few years but gradually moved to the PvP side.

    I've tried
    Aion
    Warharmmer
    Conan
    Champions Online
    the Secret World
    D&D Online
    SWToR
    City of Heroes
    Guild Wars 2

    The PvP experience in these games were either non-existent or inferior to WoW's in a meaningful way. So I keep playing WoW for MMO PvP, even if some aspects drive me nuts.

  6. #6
    Scarab Lord Gandrake's Avatar
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    Explain PvP to you.

    Well, it goes something like this

    I can't outplay another player or have difficulty dealing with another classes mechanics, you should remove them because i'm more important than other players and this change will contribute to the state of a more balanced game even though I have explicitly expressed that I do not give two flying fucks about how any classes but the classes I play are doing.

    I'm a hybrid. I should be a master healer, master wizard and master of melee combat. Pures? fuck them, they should have chosen godmode. why the hell would you drive a tank with mounted sharks mounted with lasers when you could pilot a mobile suit adorned with the finest weaponry known to man and able to reenter a planet's atmosphere unscathed.

    Warlocks are op, nerf them. every season.

    blizzard a rogue ganked me on a pvp server and wont let me quest, i am cancelling my account or going to complain on your forum until you do something about it or i get tired of waiting to see whether you care or not.

    And that's it, in a nutshell.

    I mean, there are some of us who actually enjoy the game for what it is, because we know what it is and can actually compose a complaint about the game without acting like the sky is falling. But I'm pretty sure we're far and few between.
    http://www.heroicstrike.org/ - Goodnight, sweet prince

    Melee isn't awful for Challenge Modes; you are. Melee players are a liability for the windows of time in which a tank keeps an enemy mob faced towards them, resulting in an exorbitant loss of damage or death. Melee players are a liability for people who keep rooting mobs next to them. Melee are a liability to a healer that cannot heal.

  7. #7
    Nothing wrong with WoW PvP. Nothing to see here, move along.

    Always a problem.. THE SUN IS TOO BRIGHT!! Put some shades on and chill the fuck out bruh.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    Explain PvP to you.

    Well, it goes something like this

    I can't outplay another player or have difficulty dealing with another classes mechanics, you should remove them because i'm more important than other players and this change will contribute to the state of a more balanced game even though I have explicitly expressed that I do not give two flying fucks about how any classes but the classes I play are doing.

    I'm a hybrid. I should be a master healer, master wizard and master of melee combat. Pures? fuck them, they should have chosen godmode. why the hell would you drive a tank with mounted sharks mounted with lasers when you could pilot a mobile suit adorned with the finest weaponry known to man and able to reenter a planet's atmosphere unscathed.

    Warlocks are op, nerf them. every season.

    blizzard a rogue ganked me on a pvp server and wont let me quest, i am cancelling my account or going to complain on your forum until you do something about it or i get tired of waiting to see whether you care or not.

    And that's it, in a nutshell.

    I mean, there are some of us who actually enjoy the game for what it is, because we know what it is and can actually compose a complaint about the game without acting like the sky is falling. But I'm pretty sure we're far and few between.
    Five minutes on any forum discussing Blizzard PvP proves this, and it is wholly disappointing every time. If you are complaining about balance, actually complain for balance, not for you class to be OP. Sadly, most players fit your description to the letter.

  9. #9
    BTW i am not subscribed to wow anymore, because of PVP, i know that i am no longer the kind of player blizz is targeting atm and if I stood was only for the pvp side.
    And since i remember who pvp was at start of WOTLK and CAT i new it was going to be bad in MOP so i am waiting for MOP s2 to come back


    When I say WOW pvp is shit, I am talking about class balances because it is fun to play if you are one of the OP classes.

    I have been playing Retri PVP since tbc and i always had fun in BGs or skirmish in WOTLK.

    What i found is shit about wow pvp is the fact that if you want to go rated you can't play the class you want or the spec you want.

    This is what is shit about WOW, and PVE gear in rated pvp.

    Example in WOTLK. I had the OP trinkets and weapons, but i was playing the wrong class i was playing a retri paladin.
    Then i log in with my DK because i was sick off all the 40min to kill someone. And with shitty gear and almost no resilience i helped my druid friend get over 1800 rating.

    Is it fun to play normals? Yes.
    Is it fun to duel? yes
    Is it fun to play rated? Not if you are the underdog class or want to play the underdog spec or if you are playing and alt and the best gear comes from PVE.


    Quote Originally Posted by Redlikemyrage View Post

    P.S. Etna your sig is spot on! Love it.
    Oh stop it you
    Last edited by Etna; 2012-12-14 at 02:34 PM.
    Bad - This is a bad player, he refuses to learn how to play correctly.
    Casual - This is a player that will let everything else take priority over wow.
    Hardcore - This is a player that is fine with putting things on hold while he's on wow.
    Bad/Good - Measure of Skill.
    Casual/Hardcore - Measure of Time

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Etna View Post
    BTW i am not subscribed to wow anymore, because of PVP, i know that i am no longer the kind of player blizz is targeting atm and if I stood was only for the pvp side.
    And since i remember who pvp was at start of WOTLK and CAT i new it was going to be bad in MOP so i am waiting for MOP s2 to come back


    When I say WOW pvp is shit, I am talking about class balances because it is fun to play if you are one of the OP classes.

    I have been playing Retri PVP since tbc and i always had fun in BGs or skirmish in WOTLK.

    What i found is shit about wow pvp is the fact that if you want to go rated you can't play the class you want or the spec you want.

    This is what is shit about WOW, and PVE gear in rated pvp.

    Example in WOTLK. I had the OP trinkets and weapons, but i was playing the wrong class i was playing a retri paladin.
    Then i log in with my DK because i was sick off all the 40min to kill someone. And with shitty gear and almost no resilience i helped my druid friend get over 1800 rating.

    Is it fun to play normals? Yes.
    Is it fun to duel? yes
    Is it fun to play rated? Not if you are the underdog class or want to play the underdog spec or if you are playing and alt and the best gear comes from PVE.




    Oh stop it you
    At least, so far, the bolded part seems to be a thing of the past with the introduction of PvP Power. Hopefully, it stays as such, but so far it has worked well.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Redlikemyrage View Post
    At least, so far, the bolded part seems to be a thing of the past with the introduction of PvP Power. Hopefully, it stays as such, but so far it has worked well.

    You are right and i am happy for that but has you can see, hunters, warriors and locks were OP this season. That is something that i did previewed and I am happy that I decided to wait till season 2.
    Bad - This is a bad player, he refuses to learn how to play correctly.
    Casual - This is a player that will let everything else take priority over wow.
    Hardcore - This is a player that is fine with putting things on hold while he's on wow.
    Bad/Good - Measure of Skill.
    Casual/Hardcore - Measure of Time

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by hakujinbakasama View Post
    Because after 6 years I just don't get it.

    I come from the rest of the video game world where shit "is what it is." I've never understood the mentality with the WoW PvP populace at all. While not really the best analogy, what always comes to my mind is something along the lines of an owner of the Eclipse GSX bitching that it under preforms an Lancer Evolution and how the Lancer needs fixed because of this.

    I think PvP can "be fun" but I find it irrational to expect such a system to be balanced. We already have "balanced" games out there; why aren't they off playing those which usually don't run $15 a month instead of constantly complaining that "this shit is broke" or "needs fixed now!!"

    So I'm honestly, honestly, honestly, wonder wtf is going on? Why stick paying WoW money for PvP when it's never been "balanced?" Why not invest your money into other games? I don't see how the PvP here, even on paper in happy fantasy theory space vacuum pony land, is some how so god damn amazing that you just refuse to give up hope or "the good fight."

    So what's the deal?
    Your analogy is awful. Of course players complain when Blizzard breaks balance as it has a massive effect on the gaming experience. This isn't a raid, where failure to top DPS meters only limits the strength of your virtual (and/or physical) erections; it's a competitive environment that players want to be as balanced as possible. Perhaps if 'broken class' cost less per month to play than 'op class' your analogy would be a bit better....

    You say PVP has never been balanced, but occasionally it has been. As for us already having balanced games out there, can you name some non-fps fantasy combat ones that don't need mad hand/eye coordination to succeed in? I've played lots of games over the years and have not found any that match the fun/balance found in the decent PVP seasons we've had in WoW. There's also the certainty that WoW will be around for a while - I've played plenty of games that died a death and don't want to jump ship to a game that may well be a ghost ship in 8months. I hear GW2 isn't bad, but afaik it doesn't have structured PVP so I cba with it.

    It can be frustrating when your spec of choice is non-viable, but unless Blizzard manage to somehow break PVP for both my main and my alt, I'll grin and bear it and hope for the return of balance.
    Stormscale Horde EU | http://lastrogue.com

  13. #13
    Balance is hard to achieve and I understand some of the inbalances. What I do not understand is making PvP a crowd control fest. It is no fun to play a game where as a healer you spend more battle time watching your screen than playing. Every class now has at least one crowd control. In years past, fighting rogues was annoying. Now every class is a rogue which is why you no longer see rogues in the game. You don't have to be a rogue to be a rogue. If you are a healer, expect to stand there doing nothing in PvP most of the time unless you come upon some bad PvPers. Otherwise, don't even try to cast any heal with a cast time or you are toast. Half of your spells are useless in PvP.

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