1. #1
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    Discussion: Making arcane more mobile

    Well I was thinking since for a while now I have not seen any threads about a way toile arcane at least be a tad more mobile as it is now. It came to my mind when watching the warlocks all being so happy and cast and channel while moving. Now my thought would be why not make AM be possible to be channelled while moving.
    Any other suggestions welcome or discussion and comments about my thought.

  2. #2
    well, I don't think that adding this type of mobility to Arcane will make anyone happy except Arcane Mages as this change is a very big buff and will make the spec overpowered.
    Right now, if you get used to the ''Ice Floes'' talent you are able to cast a Rune of Power and an Arcane blast as you move and this is a type of mobility. May be just 2 spells allowed every minute but it is something.
    I believe that if Arcane had the mobility of Fire or even Frost, then why any Mage should play any other spec? That is why the "AM be possible to be channelled while moving" idea is something that I believe will never happen... not a bad idea but it is way big buff for a spec, especially when it is arcane.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
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    You can choose scorch.

    You can also move while casting scorch, and other instants, like nether tempest.
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  4. #4
    I think the problem is not that Arcane has little mobility on its own. We do have Scorch as a Talent that fits nicely if we have to move.

    The problem is Rune of Power. And that is a problem not only for Arcane, but for the other specs as well. Fire and Frost can easily go Invocation and move freely, Arcane not so much.

    There ARE some builds for Arcane that don't really require Rune of Power, but it still is the bread and butter of Arcane. Hate that talent.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by spaace View Post
    You can choose scorch.

    You can also move while casting scorch, and other instants, like nether tempest.
    You're not serious, are you? Scorch DPS is negligible and Nether Tempest is just debuff which required not for its DPS but ability to proc trinkets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madruga View Post
    The problem is Rune of Power. And that is a problem not only for Arcane, but for the other specs as well. Fire and Frost can easily go Invocation and move freely, Arcane not so much.
    Agreed. Rune of Power is literally turn mage in to player controlled totem which is not very fun to play. Especially in current tier encounter which require a lot of movement.

    The main problem of arcane is that at the momnet only Rune of Power is the only actually viable talent which allow mage to sustain DPS. But design of this talent is not the best.
    Last edited by Wiedzemir; 2012-12-13 at 04:23 PM.

  6. #6
    Scorch is recommended as part of Arcane's single target rotation, as it allows you to stay at 6 stacks for 90% of the length of and encounter.
    Casting Scorch once every couple of Blasts also makes you far more mobile than exclusively casting Arcane Blast.

  7. #7
    Field Marshal Envyadams's Avatar
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    Also in movement fights if your about to have your 6 stack fall off just AE to keep the stack up until your set.

    I can agree with needing more mobility but in the current playstyle its acceptable imo the dmg while set is pretty comparable and if you move and set back up quickly the DPS loss isn't very much.

    Being a fire mage using arcane for raiding its abit difficult to play and hitting the nail on the head is hard but when you do..it shows and is pretty sweet.
    Last edited by Envyadams; 2012-12-13 at 06:01 PM. Reason: grammar ^.^

  8. #8
    AM while moving isn't out of the realm of possibility. It was almost a Firelands tier bonus before being scrapped.

  9. #9
    Concerning "why should mages play any other specc then" - Cleaving imo, for example. Yes, Arcane can cleave somewhat with Arcane Barrage (I've just started using it at trash packs to some degree of success) but nothing can .......... could ... beat Fire there. Inferno Blast spreading all kinds of DoTs (even without Combustion, but *with* a good Combustion .... oh yeah) is just awesome for Cleave fights.

    Then there's also just the flavor of the specc. As I'm getting used to Arcane again more and more the "flow" gets better but for me Fire just had a better flow. I hate the RNG but I like the feel of the specc.

  10. #10
    Its funny, I was chatting with a friend about this very topic the other day, this was his response:

    Quote Originally Posted by Logix
    Arcane doesn't need to be more mobile.
    In a game already flooded with 'mobile casters', Arcane's uniqueness will come from its more static nature. Are 'traditional' static-casters a game design ideology that doesn't work in the modern mmo era? I say no and so does, it seem, Blizzard. Static-casters just need to evolve their design in a way to still be viable and relevant today.

    That is the 'experiment' with Arcane.

    Mages were always Blizz's "experimental" class as far as design goes. This quality has not died with MoP.


    Furthermore, Arcane already has some rather interesting mobility options. True, they cannot be firing on all cylinders at full flight as far as DPS is concerned while moving, but they have quite a few tools at their disposal that allow them to either;

    A) Reduce the amount of time they need to spend moving wrt other classes/specs (blinks and speeds)
    (side note: what is troubling is the fact that Arcane has nothing 'unique' in this department*wrt the other mage specs. Arcane could use a spec only speed boost/mobility-type ability, to balance out its 'kit' wrt fire and frost and is partly to blame why Arcane-temporalshielders don't work too well).


    B) Allow for some meaningful expenditures of GCDs spent during movement, in order to either; minimize the DPS loss of moving, or hasten the return to maximum DPS post-movement phase. (scorches, instants, dots etc proc generation).




    Now you have mentioned PvP quite often as well, but the case still stands, especially now with the rather harder hitting ABr.
    Mage burst, class-wide, has been funneled into a deep freeze and a standardized cooldown, across the specs. Arcane can pull off that burst just fine (as I elaborated on last week).
    No, Arcane's issues in PvP are not necessarily coming from a lack of mobility, but rather, its ramp up time, weak spec unique ability (slow), lack of battlefield control outside of talents and complete uselessness (damage wise) outside cooldowns and a deep freeze (though this last point applies class wide).

    As you can see a few of these issues bleed over into PvE as well (e.g. ramp up time).
    I think it makes sense. I think the extra ramp up is just causing too many problems across all faces of the spec. It needs to be rectified.


    I am still at a loss as to what could be a real reason to have such a massive ramp up requirement. 6 stacks is just too much. Not only does it 'feel' wrong, but it doesn't even make that much sense from a mana perspective anymore ever since the mana cost nerf.
    There isn't even any gameplay to having the extra stacks. I mean, if something different happened between stack 3 and 5 or something at least you could make a 'gameplay' argument for their being so many stacks. But even that is not the case
    (n.b. check my posting history, i actually showed the math behind all this).

    Right now, loosing a 6 stack, say due to movement, and having to build it up again is just such a massive punishment on the spec. Sometimes, you have to move again just as you finish building the stack.

    The only reason I can seriously consider is the linking of cleave-ABrs to the stack, but that is something that is easily fixed. Just have it do X+1 extra ABrs per stack till max stack, where it does +2.
    Boom!
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiedzemir View Post
    You're not serious, are you? Scorch DPS is negligible and Nether Tempest is just debuff which required not for its DPS but ability to proc trinkets.


    Agreed. Rune of Power is literally turn mage in to player controlled totem which is not very fun to play. Especially in current tier encounter which require a lot of movement.

    The main problem of arcane is that at the momnet only Rune of Power is the only actually viable talent which allow mage to sustain DPS. But design of this talent is not the best.
    I have seen quite a few people bring this up, now I don't know if I am playing a different game than everyone else, but there is next to zero REQUIRED movement this tier.

    When you do have to move, it should never be more than a blink + scorch (or two) away unless you are going from one side of a platform to the other, in which case, learning the fight better could solve quite a few issues.

    As for the main issue of arcane's mobility, there just isn't an issue. Players need time to adjust to the playstyle/fights to maximize their amount of time they can spend inside their rune.

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    I have seen quite a few people bring this up, now I don't know if I am playing a different game than everyone else, but there is next to zero REQUIRED movement this tier.
    Wonder if people actually understand what movement really is in a fight?
    People are just complaining.. like usual. We get tons of tunnel dps fights.

    We -HAVE- to move constantly on like what 4 fights? It's just about learning the fight, and your raid group. Our raid loves melee, so ranged do all the work while they tunnel boss' and such... If you're that worried about trying to parse top mage, then tell your raid group to accomidate you.

    If you're looking for a mobility spec, then its frost.. not fire.

    With lvl 90, and no "do 25% more dmg with frost spells as frost spec" not around... hell if you're crying about having to weave a scorch in, then just weave a frostbolt instead and pickup icy flows. You get to move while casting AB twice every 2 min.. good luck.
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  13. #13
    Blademaster Seabert's Avatar
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    Exactly what voltaa said. I actually like the fact that arcane lacks mobility compared with say fire, it just makes the spec more challenging and fun to play and makes a huge gap between the great and the average mages. Like for example people QQ about fights such as kings or sha so much, they're really not bad as arcane with smart rune placement and proper gameplay. If there's one thing that I'd like to change it's having to stack ABs to 6, although I kind of like this too since losing the stacks just means a lot more this way and on fights such as blade lord heroic etc. it makes a gigantic dps difference if you lose your stacks all the time or if you only lose them for the last phase.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Seabert View Post
    If there's one thing that I'd like to change it's having to stack ABs to 6, although I kind of like this too since losing the stacks just means a lot more this way and on fights such as blade lord heroic etc. it makes a gigantic dps difference if you lose your stacks all the time or if you only lose them for the last phase.
    Agreed.

    Arcane 'ramp up' needs to be fixed. The existence of the 6 stack change continues to baffle me, especially now with the existence of the mana cost changes.

    I cannot think of a single scenario why it exists specifically since the abomination that is 'scorch weaving' is being sampled as a 'playstyle'.
    We all know it will be fixed.


    The DPS process of a spec should not rely on picking a specific talent. It goes against the entire idea of having talents and specs as separate things in the first place.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Dmages View Post
    It came to my mind when watching the warlocks all being so happy and cast and channel while moving.
    Ok lets make a deal - you will get mobility like we warlocks have, but instead your DPS will be lowered by about 30% to be same as ours - is that ok for you ?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by kandalanu View Post
    Ok lets make a deal - you will get mobility like we warlocks have, but instead your DPS will be lowered by about 30% to be same as ours - is that ok for you ?
    Warlocks having low damage? Good joke.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by kandalanu View Post
    Ok lets make a deal - you will get mobility like we warlocks have, but instead your DPS will be lowered by about 30% to be same as ours - is that ok for you ?
    I like the low single target affliction has... Oh wait. they dont. Warlock just needs more from the player to be able to max the dps, given that aint hard either..

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by kandalanu View Post
    Ok lets make a deal - you will get mobility like we warlocks have, but instead your DPS will be lowered by about 30% to be same as ours - is that ok for you ?
    Is it just me or did a warlock mention about their dps is %30 lower than mages?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Darcyn View Post
    Is it just me or did a warlock mention about their dps is %30 lower than mages?
    its just you, no worry reading skils are hard.


    warlock mention about 30% lower dps than arcane mages while not moving.

    small difference but changing everything.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by kandalanu View Post
    its just you, no worry reading skils are hard.


    warlock mention about 30% lower dps than arcane mages while not moving.

    small difference but changing everything.
    First of all %30 is a huge difference not small. Secondly its nowhere near %30, more like %5.

    I wonder what would cause you think that. Overdpsed by an arcane mage by %30?

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