Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    Frost or arcane.

    Hi.

    I was a fire mage for most of start of Pandaria, loved it.
    Then when the nerf came i tried frost, and im loving it,
    its a great change of pase and a busy spec to play.
    IM in a 10 man raiding guild, with Sha normal left intil we start on heroics.

    Should i change to arcane or can i still be competetive as frost?
    Or is frost Pve dead too now? If anybody can help me abit would be very appreciated.
    Still need alot of haste gear for frost, still got some pieces left from fire


    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...warsftw/simple


    THankyou.

  2. #2
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Soviet Union
    Posts
    2,147
    You'll do way better with Frost than with Arcane in that gear. The massive lack of Mastery even after reforging everything into it makes Arcane unviable for you.

  3. #3
    Full tilt Haste and do both.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  4. #4
    Ok thankyou, staying frost for now intil i can change to arcane with more mastery gear.
    But is frost still viable as a raid spec or do i have to go arcane?

  5. #5
    I'm playing Frost and I'm totally competetive to the rest of my raid. I'm not topping meters (though nobody does constantly in our guild), but I do as many DPS as all the others in my guild + I really like the style of Frost. You have so much more control then you have on Fire.

  6. #6
    The Patient Berkhtar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Frankfurt / Germany
    Posts
    265
    Quote Originally Posted by Yodadps View Post
    Ok thankyou, staying frost for now intil i can change to arcane with more mastery gear.
    But is frost still viable as a raid spec or do i have to go arcane?
    1.) Frost is absolutely viable
    2.) You can play arcane with full haste or full mastery gear. (Remember: Haste = manareg)

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Full tilt Haste and do both.
    This is what I've done. I feel like I'm doing better on Frost but I always had underperformed in arcane :X

  8. #8

  9. #9
    Dreadlord
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Germany/BW
    Posts
    901
    Frost is "okay". The ramp up and the lack of dots is a pain in the ... on many fights. You will do far less dps than fire post 5.1 nerf and you will do far less dps than an full mastery arcane mage on bosses like feng garajal elegon hc, because arcane has a lot higher output potential than frost. In 2 - 3 weeks we will see mostly arcane mages, because its the new FotM spec.

  10. #10
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    SC, USA
    Posts
    2,122
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    Frost is "okay". The ramp up and the lack of dots is a pain in the ... on many fights. You will do far less dps than fire post 5.1 nerf and you will do far less dps than an full mastery arcane mage on bosses like feng garajal elegon hc, because arcane has a lot higher output potential than frost. In 2 - 3 weeks we will see mostly arcane mages, because its the new FotM spec.
    You won't do far less dps than fire.

    Responses like this are why the community is struggling sometimes with misinformation spreading. Each spec is viable. As others have said above us-- you'll be able to do either. Your playstyle dictates the choice now. The trick to being a modern mage is being open-minded. Pick the two best specs you play, try to itemize yourself to be able to switch among them, then use the best spec for the given fight.

    You'll do well in any spec for which you can develop a passion. Arcane certainly isn't FotM. Blatty is arcane, but Kuznam is frost. Each spec is represented among the top guilds.

  11. #11
    Frost is a lot easier than arcane, so in progression fights where you're still struggling with mechanics I'd do frost.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-14 at 06:47 PM ----------

    By that I mean that while arcane might have a higher output potential, it requires more focus at first and frost is better for mindless dps concentrating on other things.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by razzan View Post
    Frost is a lot easier than arcane, so in progression fights where you're still struggling with mechanics I'd do frost.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-14 at 06:47 PM ----------

    By that I mean that while arcane might have a higher output potential, it requires more focus at first and frost is better for mindless dps concentrating on other things.
    Exactly. Frost is very forgiving if you mess up the rotation here or there or unsure about boss mechanics. On the other hand if you drop stacks as Arcane or don't monitor mana well it can be a very hard spec to master.

  13. #13
    Dreadlord
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Germany/BW
    Posts
    901
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    You won't do far less dps than fire.

    Responses like this are why the community is struggling sometimes with misinformation spreading. Each spec is viable. As others have said above us-- you'll be able to do either. Your playstyle dictates the choice now. The trick to being a modern mage is being open-minded. Pick the two best specs you play, try to itemize yourself to be able to switch among them, then use the best spec for the given fight.

    You'll do well in any spec for which you can develop a passion. Arcane certainly isn't FotM. Blatty is arcane, but Kuznam is frost. Each spec is represented among the top guilds.
    I meant pre 5.1 and no, you don´t do damage as pre fire 5.1. "Viable" is a term I don´t like, because
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    ...Responses like this are why the community is struggling sometimes with misinformation spreading...
    I don´t know who Blatty is and I have no idea who Kuznam is. FotM is what the majority know/think is the best spec atm. "Top guilds" doesn´t and will never mean anything to me. "Top guilds" always progress with the so called "FotM spec" and that was for the 24/7 hardcore progress guilds fire. What they now do is playing another spec with highend gear no one other could obtain at the moment.

    Frost is now what I and alot of other cataclysm frost mages never wanted. We wrote a lot of e-mails, wrote in a lot of threads in offical forums, calculated, speculated and prayed that the spec didn´t evolve to what it is today.
    Last edited by citizenpete; 2012-12-15 at 08:17 PM.

  14. #14
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    SC, USA
    Posts
    2,122
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    I meant pre 5.1 and no, you don´t do damage as pre fire 5.1. "Viable" is a term I don´t like, because

    I don´t know who Blatty is and I have no idea who Kuznam is. FotM is what the majority know/think is the best spec atm. "Top guilds" doesn´t and will never mean anything to me. "Top guilds" always progress with the so called "FotM spec" and that was for the 24/7 hardcore progress guilds fire. What they now do is playing another spec with highend gear no one other could obtain at the moment.

    Frost is now what I and alot of other cataclysm frost mages never wanted. We wrote a lot of e-mails, wrote in a lot of threads in offical forums, calculated, speculated and prayed that the spec didn´t evolve to what it is today.
    Why would we discuss pre 5.1 numbers? Just why? What is the purpose in that and how does it help the OP in any way?

    Also I recommend to you that if you are passionate about mages, research a lot of parses and see who some of the best ones are out there. Blatty and Kuznam are names worth knowing. So is Turkeyburger from Midwinter, Psamtik, Donnut, Ataxus, and many others.

    We lack a very good community with the best and brightest contributing, so a lot of inspiration for calculations and determinations comes from observing those who are required to be on the bleeding edge. Finding those people, piecing together parses, reverse-engineering their choices and stacking them against your own testing is what moves us all forward. I just don't follow your logic or approach here, Citizenpete. Giving pre-5.1 info to someone looking for post-5.1 info is going to confuse him and possibly others.

  15. #15
    Dreadlord
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Germany/BW
    Posts
    901
    Well, maybe it because I´m switching a lot between languages and/or english is not my mother tongue, but I feel there is nothing wrong with saying "you do a lot less damage as frost than pre 5.1 fire" to a guy who played fire pre 5.1 and wants to know what he should playing now. I am really, really passionate. Progressing whole heroic cataclysm conted as frost really, really need a lot of passion : )

    According to your comment, your approach seems like: #1 logs = best way to play; #1 in logs = maximum skill; #1 logs = reliable players.

    Reliable frost players are the ones to me that always love and played frost. Reliable frost players are the ones who did a lot for "us" in and during beta (as they did during cata beta). Those guys helped to fix a few things during beta (blizzard didn´t listen to the most things), they really care about the design and flavour of the spec. Comparing parses with players, that are far away in progress with 10+ ilvl more, making no sense to me. I´m looking at my own parses in the first place and try to find out what went wrong and what not. And I´m talking to players which are about at the same level of progression and gear.

  16. #16
    Brewmaster Kiry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,255
    Frost has plenty of burst, and needs no ramp up time if you have freeze and orb up. Honestly, it depends on what people are comfortable playing. I'm currently arcane, but will perform better in some fights as frost due to the mechanics.

    Imo, frost is easier to work with in fights because you dont have to be stationary, you have more flexibility. However, if you know the fight and can plan your path accordingly, RoP & arcane away.
    Playing
    WildStar -Mechari Medic, Draken Stalker
    Diablo: RoS
    GW2 - Ranger

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiry View Post
    Frost has plenty of burst, and needs no ramp up time if you have freeze and orb up. Honestly, it depends on what people are comfortable playing. I'm currently arcane, but will perform better in some fights as frost due to the mechanics.

    Imo, frost is easier to work with in fights because you dont have to be stationary, you have more flexibility. However, if you know the fight and can plan your path accordingly, RoP & arcane away.
    Most would consider that Frostbolt debuff to constitute a ramp up.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    You won't do far less dps than fire.

    Responses like this are why the community is struggling sometimes with misinformation spreading. Each spec is viable. As others have said above us-- you'll be able to do either. Your playstyle dictates the choice now. The trick to being a modern mage is being open-minded. Pick the two best specs you play, try to itemize yourself to be able to switch among them, then use the best spec for the given fight.

    You'll do well in any spec for which you can develop a passion. Arcane certainly isn't FotM. Blatty is arcane, but Kuznam is frost. Each spec is represented among the top guilds.
    He's not wrong. Frost is significantly lower than fire was, even pre-5.1.

  19. #19
    Brewmaster Kiry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,255
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Most would consider that Frostbolt debuff to constitute a ramp up.
    I would say then, every spec has something they would "generally" need to do to build up that buff/debuff. Arcane buff/Fire debuff/Frost debuff. ?

    And Shmeh, I dont think Frost is significantly lower than Fire. At least, that's not what is trending currently.
    Playing
    WildStar -Mechari Medic, Draken Stalker
    Diablo: RoS
    GW2 - Ranger

  20. #20
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    SC, USA
    Posts
    2,122
    Quote Originally Posted by Shmeh View Post
    He's not wrong. Frost is significantly lower than fire was, even pre-5.1.
    This disconnect is beginning to get frustrating.

    In a post-5.1 environment, fire is not going to always beat frost. It's going to come down to gearing, itemization of that gear, skill, and the raids entire kill strat.

    Of course pre-5.1 fire trounced all over arcane and frost. But the OP isn't asking about that, there's no need to discuss it. The past is the past.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •