Dalaran is on the move !

[Combatbutler]

You're insinuating how *easy* it would be for Dalaran to fall to the Forsaken.

Did I say easy, no I did not all I said was Dalaran alone has no chance of victory against the forsaken. Which they would be if they decide to return to hillsbrad.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Did I say easy, no I did not all I said was Dalaran alone has no chance of victory against the forsaken. Which they would be if they decide to return to hillsbrad.

Yeah basically no chance of victory is what you are saying. I'd say Dalaran has an edge and wouldn't go down easily. They have a chance.

[Norgannon the Dreamweaver]

Really sunreavers used to be part of the Dalaran military, many silver covenant magi died as Rommath stormed the city, so please enlighten me how I am wrong?

You're wrong because we have no sheer numbers for anything on regard to Dalaran culture and society. Unless you can actually teleport to a real-life Dalaran and ask them, you're logic is false. There is no way to fully understand WoW lore like this. You can't just claim things without accurat numbers.

Don't go too far in thought my friend.

Dalaran DOES have a chance against the Forsaken. Arcane magic can hamper the undead greatly along with the holy light. The plague isn't even comparable to the destruction that can be caused my arcane magic

[Scummer]

the forsaken have the second biggest population of the horde, and the third greatest city. they are also the second in number of armies. plus, they don't rely on numbers, but on subtlety and plague.

the only reasons they could not destroy gilneas were:

1 - garrosh didn't let them use the true plague. all they could do was to use a diluted, barely usable version;
2 - the val'kyr don't work against worgen;
3 - if they had disobeyed garrosh and oozed the city, they wouldn't be able to make a port on it. the plagued southshore will remain inhospitable for at least a hundred years or so due to the blight.

The second largest army most likely is the Dwarves.

Oh no your Warchief actually put limitations on your bio weapons and necromancy as he should have done all those years ago. All it goes to prove is that without either the Forsaken are a pretty awful army.

I expect to see more of this. Not to mention Blizzard ages ago mentioned how the next Warchief will also put his foot down so don't expect those limitations to be lifted.

Garrosh's treatment of the Forsaken is probably one of his highlights to tell the truth.

the line is drawn at the "undead can live without their heads" point. sir thomas thomson has been flying around headless for years and nobody seemed to notice until kiryn made a joke about headless forsaken lol

When I start seeing Forsaken walking around without any heads I'll buy it.
1-2 examples are exceptions to the rule and not the rule itself. Not to mention how the vast majority of Kiryn's quotes are tongue in cheek so you aren't exactly working with heavy evidence here either. One quote from a character with humourous quotes doesn't suddenly make new lore.

[Combatbutler]

Yeah basically no chance of victory is what you are saying. I'd say Dalaran has an edge and wouldn't go down easily. They have a chance.

Dalaran is compromised almost entirely of magi, forsaken have a real army, compromised out of magi, warlocks warriors,rogues, siege engines,etc. Dalaran is relatively strong they would put up quite the fight but they would be overwhelmed in the end.

---------- Post added 2012-12-16 at 10:09 PM ----------

Dalaran DOES have a chance against the Forsaken. Arcane magic can hamper the undead greatly along with the holy light. The plague isn't even comparable to the destruction that can be caused my arcane magic

You do know the forsaken have beings that can pretty much counter magi, they are known as banshees. Dalaran has no priest army nor have they Paladins. As i said their army is almost entirely compromised of magi and that is a weakness that can be exploited.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Dalaran is compromised almost entirely of magi, forsaken have a real army, compromised out of magi, warlocks warriors,rogues, siege engines,etc. Dalaran is relatively strong they would put up quite the fight but they would be overwhelmed in the end.

I doubt they would be overwhelmed. That's just quite silly.

You do know the forsaken have beings that can pretty much counter magi, they are known as banshees. Dalaran has no priest army nor have they Paladins. As i said their army is almost entirely compromised of magi and that is a weakness that can be exploited.

You're bringing on game mechanics.

[Raptor With a Saber]

It would be moving to theramore..to offset the imbalance in horde/alliance land post cata.

[Golden Yak]

Dalaran would certainly know how to fight the undead and the plague now. They held off the Scourge itself for a time - sure, it didn't work in the end, but they're smart enough to learn from experience and do a better job of it the second time. And as much as I like the Forsaken, as an army of the undead, they're no Scourge.

[Combatbutler]

I doubt they would be overwhelmed. That's just quite silly.

Well they must sleep and eat, they have many human members, so each human that falls is a potential mage on the forsaken side, it might be a war of attrition and in such a war undead beings clearly have the edge.

You're bringing on game mechanics.

Do I? Lorewise Banshees disrupt spellcasting of any kind and the forsaken have former member of the kirin tor, warlocks etc. logically Dalaran can't win this one.

Dalaran would certainly know how to fight the undead and the plague now. They held off the Scourge itself for a time - sure, it didn't work in the end, but they're smart enough to learn from experience and do a better job of it the second time. And as much as I like the Forsaken, as an army of the undead, they're no Scourge.

Indeed but the scourge was mindless, the forsaken are not.



Should they bring Stormwind for the ride they would win though.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Well they must sleep and eat, they have many human members, so each human that falls is a potential mage on the forsaken side, it might be a war of attrition and in such a war undead beings clearly have the edge.

Again you're assuming the Kirin'Tor doesn't have anything up their sleeve and try to eliminate the Val'kyr which is pretty much Scourge 2.0.

Do I? Lorewise Banshees disrupt spellcasting of any kind and the forsaken have former member of the kirin tor, warlocks etc. logically Dalaran can't win this one.

Sure they can, they can win. You're basically bringing Game mechanics with Banshees. I know what they're capable of but saying they'll be overwhelmed is quite inaccurate. It's more likely Alliance and Horde Reinforcements would come and then the battle would be decided. I'd say it's more of a draw(Cause I'm being generous).

Indeed but the scourge was mindless, the forsaken are not.

He's referring to when the last time the Scourge fought dalaran. They'd still be vulnerable to the same tactics the Kirin'Tor has(If they choose to use it of course).

[destia]

Go home Dalaran! You are drunk!

[checking facts]

You're wrong because we have no sheer numbers for anything on regard to Dalaran culture and society. Unless you can actually teleport to a real-life Dalaran and ask them, you're logic is false. There is no way to fully understand WoW lore like this. You can't just claim things without accurat numbers.

we do know that archimonde destroyed dalaran in WC3 and many many people died. dalaran isn't what it used to be anymore.

Dalaran DOES have a chance against the Forsaken. Arcane magic can hamper the undead greatly along with the holy light. The plague isn't even comparable to the destruction that can be caused my arcane magic

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. arcane magic isn't stronger than the blight, quite the contrary. most arcane spells rely on impact or burning, which isn't any different from throwing stones or using a flamethrower.

as for the blight, you breath, you die (and your face melts). a handful of rogue forsaken killed 3 armies (horde, alliance and scourge) and stunned the lich king in a matter of few seconds, and no mortal mage has ever achieved something like that with the arcane.

---------- Post added 2012-12-16 at 09:24 PM ----------

The second largest army most likely is the Dwarves.

since when are there dwarves in the horde?

[Scummer]

since when are there dwarves in the horde?

I had a brain fart and misread it as "second largest in WoW" for whatever reason .

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. arcane magic isn't stronger than the blight, quite the contrary. most arcane spells rely on impact or burning, which isn't any different from throwing stones or using a flamethrower.

as for the blight, you breath, you die (and your face melts). a handful of rogue forsaken killed 3 armies (horde, alliance and scourge) and stunned the lich king in a matter of few seconds, and no mortal mage has ever achieved something like that with the arcane.

And I'm sorry but saying the Forsaken would faceroll Dalaran is worse. I'd say the Arcane is just as strong as Blight and has the same potential in fact worse. Not to mention the effects are different. Now I don't know what a Focusing Iris could do with Plague and I don't want to think about that right now.

[Combatbutler]

Again you're assuming the Kirin'Tor doesn't have anything up their sleeve and try to eliminate the Val'kyr which is pretty much Scourge 2.0.

Who says the remaining main Vak'kyr need to be on the Battlefield?
http://www.wowpedia.org/Lesser_Val'kyr

Sure they can, they can win. You're basically bringing Game mechanics with Banshees. I know what they're capable of but saying they'll be overwhelmed is quite inaccurate. It's more likely Alliance and Horde Reinforcements would come and then the battle would be decided. I'd say it's more of a draw(Cause I'm being generous).

Dalaran would have no friend nearby to support them, the Alliance presence in Northern Loraeron is all but gone, it would take weeks to amount an army to help them there. Which is my main point.

He's referring to when the last time the Scourge fought dalaran. They'd still be vulnerable to the same tactics the Kirin'Tor has(If they choose to use it of course).

Yes the Kirin'tor were overwhelmed by mindless zombies, but the forsaken actually thinking isn't the only thing that is different now, compared to the Dalaran of the past the new one is far weaker.

[checking facts]

And I'm sorry but saying the Forsaken would faceroll Dalaran is worse. I'd say the Arcane is just as strong as Blight and has the same potential in fact worse. Not to mention the effects are different. Now I don't know what a Focusing Iris could do with Plague and I don't want to think about that right now.

I never said the forsaken will faceroll dalaran. but people are saying dalaran will faceroll the forsaken, and that's just wrong. if dalaran was so strong it wouldn't have to have called the alliance and the horde to defeat malygos (and they had support from the wyrmrest accord).

IMHO, and I have already said that, if the forsaken and dalaran get into war with each other with no external interference (which means no silvermoon from behind), it'll be a tie. if silvermoon decides to join the fight, than dalaran will be grossly outnumbered and fall.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Who says the remaining main Vak'kyr need to be on the Battlefield?

I meant all of them not the main ones Sylvanas has as personal slaves.

Dalaran would have no friend nearby to support them, the Alliance presence in Northern Loraeron is all but gone, it would take weeks to amount an army to help them there. Which is my main point.

Which is why I said a draw. It would just end as no enemy winning and reinforcements would decide the battle.

Yes the Kirin'tor were overwhelmed by mindless zombies, but the forsaken actually thinking isn't the only thing that is different now, compared to the Dalaran of the past the new one is far weaker.

Not just mindless zombies...Some with a mind Undead but considering how not much different the Forsaken and Scourge is right now I wouldn't be surprised if Dalaran pulled a anti-Undead field.

I never said the forsaken will faceroll dalaran. but people are saying dalaran will faceroll the forsaken, and that's just wrong. if dalaran was so strong it wouldn't have to have called the alliance and the horde to defeat malygos (and they had support from the wyrmrest accord).

IMHO, and I have already said that, if the forsaken and dalaran get into war with each other with no external interference (which means no silvermoon from behind), it'll be a tie. if silvermoon decides to join the fight, than dalaran will be grossly outnumbered and fall.

Dalaran would be very strong but I don't think overwhelming them, unless of course the state of the Forsaken has changed in MoP(Funny...they take a back seat....). As I said earlier if any external reinforcements came the battle would be tipped out of a stalemate.

[Combatbutler]

Not just mindless zombies...some sane Undead but considering how not much different the Forsaken and Scourge is right now I wouldn't be surprised if Dalaran pulled a anti-Undead field.

They tried that in the past and it didn't do them any good.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

They tried that in the past and it didn't do them any good.

I said I wouldn't be surprised if they tried pulling it. Even so I don't think Dalaran is heading to Hillsbrad. I suspect it's going to attack Orgrimmar.

[Golden Yak]

Yes the Kirin'tor were overwhelmed by mindless zombies, but the forsaken actually thinking isn't the only thing that is different now, compared to the Dalaran of the past the new one is far weaker.

The bulk of the Scourge's ground forces are undead with no will of their own, but they are directed by the higher order undead - the death knights, liches, and dreadlords. They direct the Scourge according to their tactics and planning, which are anything but mindless. Swarming enemy positions with tons of disposable troops is a good tactic when you have them certainly, but it isn't like the Scourge can't act strategically at all - Dalaran was protecting itself with fields of anti-undead magical energy, and no amount of swarming wouldn't overwhelmed them. Arthas had to lead his forces around the fields so he could take out the magi creating them, which required maneuvering and guile.

The average forsaken is smarter than the average zombie of course, but the Forsaken as a whole lack the massive overwhelming, numbers of the Scourge. Tactical thinking will only take you so far - you need troops as well.

And I don't know about Dalaran being any weaker now than it was back then... I don't get that impression. To say nothing of the fact that Dalaran boasts an array of magical portals connecting to every major city in the world - they can bring in as many reinforcements as they'll ever need.