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  1. #381
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    I'll say again, the only inconsistency on Jaina's actions is the lack of an immediate investigation on the Sunreavers' doing.

    It's not like the Kirin Tor was occupied with some event that didn't permitted it. Kirin Tor members, including their leader, were killed and a Sunreaver was involved. It was bound to be priority number one.
    Logic is not very common in the wow universe, I guess this is just another plothole.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Logic is not very common in the wow universe, I guess this is just another plothole.
    Nah, it can be explained. It's an inconsistency, but small. An explanation like "OK, I want to maintain peace in Dalaran so I'll avoid anything that would provoke any kind of instability or crisis". A bit "meh", but acceptable.

    All I meant all Jaina's actions and reactions are consistent to the events that she suffers. There is no inconsistency anywhere.

  3. #383
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Nah, it can be explained. It's an inconsistency, but small. An explanation like "OK, I want to maintain peace in Dalaran so I'll avoid anything that would provoke any kind of instability or crisis". A bit "meh", but acceptable.

    All I meant all Jaina's actions and reactions are consistent to the events that she suffers. There is no inconsistency anywhere.
    Jainas actions are understandable, but the kirin tor as a whole not investigating the sunreavers in order to avoid bias, that is a minor plothole^^
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    You only have to do both sides, to see there is no delay. Otherwise those guys wouldn't just sit in the sewers wondering what was happening when the silver covenant shows up to round them up.

    The actual quotes


    "There I was, minding my own business, enjoying a nice game of cards when these Silver Covenant... slugs came around telling us to hand over our belongings. What gives?"
    "They say Lady Proudmoore wanted us out. I... I do not understand."
    "What is all this nonsense about a "purge"?"
    "Can you believe this? These Silver Covenant goons are trying to shake us down."



    You are, most of the time.
    What is really funny and baffling is that the same alliance players that passionately defend the Kirin Tor and Silver Covenant PURGE (strong word) if asked tell that Silvanas actions against the Worgen are despicable. Well, it's the Windrunner way. Vereesa is pushing Jaina in the same despicable manner her sister pushes the Horde in EK. There is no difference on their strategy. That's the way they rose in ranking, fighting the poor trolls that went crazy in Zul'Aman. Cruel and merciless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
    Well, that's because there isn't one. Jaina's wards are breached and she's aghast; she can't fathom how this could have happened. She and the player trace arcane residue to the edge of Darnassus, where she has an epiphany and realizes "her own" Kirin Tor were behind it. That's when she goes back to Dalaran, murders Aethas's guards/calls him out/imprisons him, and the purge begins.

    She offered Aethas the opportunity to take his people and go (which he foolishly refused), but there's nothing to suggest she offered the rest of them the chance to escape. That the ones who don't try to stop her (or are completely ignorant of what's going on) are running around in a state of frenzied panic makes that pretty clear. It's not "exile or die," it's "incarceration or die."
    Not to mention that Vereesa takes the opportunity to shake down some shopkeepers, and the silver covenant to "confiscate" Sunreaver belongings.

    Buu <= WHY I LOVE TO PLAY HUNTERS! => Pendleton

  5. #385
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    Eh, Jaina/Aethas assuming Thalen was an irregularity is forgivable imo. It's not like the guy was essential to the siege; he failed miserably in his espionage and got captured before he could do anything of note. His entire presence there seemed to be to provide exposition for Horde players unsure of what that thing in the sky was.

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    novels, manga, comics, graphic novels and shortstories are ALL CANON.

    tabletop RPG books are not canon. you are confused.
    Yea, that's right.

    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    You realize that the quest where we do this takes place after the exile order has been given, right?

    Jaina arrives with the player and confronts Aethas after the Sunreavers know that Jaina has told them to leave, stay and go to the Violet Hold, or resist and die.

    I think this is something that a lot of people are missing. Even if the quest doesn't out right state this fact, it's pretty obvious. Its not like the moment you step through the portal at Darnassus that THAT moment is the very beginning.
    Yes, actually, it is. Just before going to Dal, Jaina only knows that someone in the Kirin Tor helped Garrosh. She doesn't know who. The second you teleport to Dal with Jaina, you are in the Violet Citadel. The Violet Citadel is home to several Kirin Tor, but she immediately jumps to the conclusion that Aethas is responsible with no proof and murders 3 non-hostile Blood Elves standing there.

    Aethas: You have it all wrong, Jaina. I did nothing.
    Jaina: You looked the other way. You and your insubordinate kind are no longer welcome here.
    Aethas: This is OUR city too, Proudmore.
    Jaina: Hah! I see. I will remove the Sunreavers by force, then.
    Jaina then murders 2 more non-hostile Blood Elves before apprehending Aethas (against whom she has no evidence).
    You talk to Vareesa while Blood Elves run terrified through the streets. She tells you she always hated the Sunreavers and wanted the Kirin Tor to serve the Alliance. Then she orders you to disable all the dragonhawks so that "NONE are to escape" in a quest called "Nowhere to run." She orders you to kill anyone refusing to leave their homes (this is their city too, remember?) because "they now face the judgement of the Alliance, the Silver Covenant, and the Kirin Tor!" Notice how she listed Kirin Tor last? In the quest "Cashing Out," she orders you to kill Brasael who is attempting to flee and that all Sunreavers have forfeit their property.

    Jaina captures Aethas THEN goes out to the city to persecute the Sunreavers.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  7. #387
    Here's a speculation.

    Piecing events together, Sylvannas has warned Garrosh that assulting the City in the Swamp would allow the Alliance to take their hate on the Forsaken and their borders.

    Sylvannas has played no role at the "Landfall" patch, which makes it ideal for them to shine at some point.

    Dalaran is on the move, if the case is that if it intends to LAND at a particular location, then it's most likely going to be where they took off (i.e hillsbrad), since I doubt the'd want to blast a whole new crater to fit their city in.


    Why Hillsbrad? Well, it's in the heart of Forsaken lands, an easy access to Trisful Glades to wreck unbelievable rampage. Not only that, it would create a highway to Chillwind Camp, easily reinforced by the sheer numbers of the Kirin Tor and the might of the Alliance Reinforcements. This would keep Androhal in a "Holy Shit" situation, and if Androhal is sacked, that means "The Bulwark" that borders Trisful from The Plaguelands is cut off, which means the Blood Elves can't mobilize an army to reinforce it's allies, moreover, that would mean The Forsaken themselves can't assist the Blood Elves when the Alliance starts harrasing Eversong Woods.

    To top it all off, The Gilneas Liberation Front will drool as they see the Alliance, obliterating Silverpine Forest (since Dalaran is very close to the middle of the Silverpine).

    If The Alliance was allowed to create a GAP, separating Forsaken from the bottom half of the Forest, Gilneas would be a naked lady, beckoning every single Man-wolf to conquer it under the Blue Flag, the Alliance forces would crush the Forsaken harrasers and will ultimately conquer the city, allowing them to create a port which will provide access to troops from Darnassus and Darnassus No.2(Exodar), which will not only quad-triple The Alliance forces in Southern Lorderon, but will also allow the Alliance to take over Tol Barad.

    Hyped about the mess thats going on, the Flying Wannabe Dwarves of Aerie Peak will send whatever the hell it has on the neighboring Horde fortresses (Hammerfall, Tarren Mill) backed up by a reinforced Chillwind Camp, reinforced by The Alliance. This means Dwarf forces from Ironforge (Dwarf Love) can attack Arathi Highlands from the south from Wetlands, allowing them to once again hold possession on Stromgrade keep, in which that "Trollbane" guy can finally come back to Azeroth, which may give love to Turolyon and that other girl's story.

    We also have Alterac Valley, the Snowman's Guard, no longer will they have to deal with 40 alliance bots farming their cause, but to actually have a legion, crushing the Frostwolves, that will eventually fall since Drek'thar already turned his back on the horde when asked for reinforcements from Tarren Mill.



    So do you see this ultimate turn of events? The only weapon The Forsaken have, is the plague, and despite that, it will only delay an inevitable. My speculation is that Dalaran WILL land and start assaulting the land, but at the same time Garrosh will be present and forbid Sylvannas to use it, and will retain on that principal until it would be too late. By the time Sylvannas would use it, despite being threatened by Garrosh, the rampage would have already been set in motion.

    The plague may in fact be the only weapon that would stop Trisful Glades from being conquered.


    This is a perfect speculation, because I heard earlier that Sylvannas would play a very big role in de-throning Garrosh. If these chain of events actually go in motion, then that would give Sylvannas a great deal to hate him, since hes the one who provoked The Alliance in the first place, and secondly, because I'm pretty sure Garrosh will do something stupid again that would probably kill alot of alliance, but alot of Forsaken aswell.



    ...

    Just sayin.
    Last edited by K-b; 2012-12-17 at 10:50 PM.

  8. #388
    I disagree. I don't think that at this point, Garrosh would forbid the use of the plague in a desperate situation. Back in Cata, sure, when he still held onto some sense of honor. But now that he's risking a second cataclysm by enslaving molten giants, using mana bombs, trying to harness sha energy etc, he's used too many evil super weapons for me to think he'd realistically deny the plague in a dire situation.

  9. #389
    Okay, wait. I've been trying to stay somewhat unspoiled here until I get through the (Horde-side) version of all this but... just to be clear.

    Are you guys saying that, after Garrosh uses the Sunreavers to invade Darnassus from Dalaran to steal the Divine Bell, that Jaina and Vereesa, between them, decide to banish every blood elf in Dalaran, whether a Sunreaver or not... many of whom would have been there throughout the entire Northrend campaign fighting the Scourge and the blues... with no proof of individual wrongdoing by any of them? And that, any who weren't moving fast enough basically were then trapped there with no escape and largely slaughtered?

    Is that seriously what goes down here?

    I always knew Vereesa was the least of the Windrunner sisters, the silly dilettante who appears to have sat out the Scourge march through Quel'thalas so she could be fetishwear for a human mage, but honestly, what you guys are describing puts her well in the running for Worst Thalassian Ever right up there with Drathir.

    I would hope Lor'themar would be pissed enough to tell any and all associated with the Silver Covenant that they are no longer welcome on Quel'danas and that they should take a picture of the Sunwell.
    Last edited by Stormdash; 2012-12-18 at 03:54 AM.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    Okay, wait. I've been trying to stay somewhat unspoiled here until I get through the (Horde-side) version of all this but... just to be clear.

    Are you guys saying that, after Garrosh uses the Sunreavers to invade Darnassus from Dalaran to steal the Divine Bell, that Jaina and Vereesa, between them, decide to banish every blood elf in Dalaran, whether a Sunreaver or not... many of whom would have been there throughout the entire Northrend campaign fighting the Scourge and the blues... with no proof of individual wrongdoing by any of them? And that, any who weren't moving fast enough basically were then trapped there with no escape and largely slaughtered?

    Is that seriously what goes down here?

    I always knew Vereesa was the least of the Windrunner sisters, the silly dilettante who appears to have sat out the Scourge march through Quel'thalas so she could be fetishwear for a human mage, but honestly, what you guys are describing puts her well in the running for Worst Thalassian Ever right up there with Drathir.

    I would hope Lor'themar would be pissed enough to tell any and all associated with the Silver Covenant that they are no longer welcome on Quel'danas and that they should take a picture of the Sunwell.
    Sending 1 person in to locate the bell then covertly sneaking it out of the city is not an invasion. They didn't attack anyone in the city.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  11. #391
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
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    I think that the betrayal thing is not just about opening a portal, but about the intel. Nazgrim tells you that the alliance know the bell was stolen and then "However, they've also found out that the "neutral" Sunreavers of Dalaran were complicit. Now, we've got a situation."

    It's not about the sunreavers betraying the kirin tor (They did, at least a section of it did) It's about Jaina's rampage. She was right, but it's like she started the whole thing based on an assumption. Maybe she could read the energy trace to know it was a sunreaver portal.

    I guess that at the end it was just the excuse that Jaina needed to return Dalaran to the alliance, like it was a blessing in disguise to her cause. It gives her justification of some sort.

    That's why she didn't conduct an investigation to know the specific accomplices of Garrosh, sit was now or never if she wanted Dalaran to retun to the alliance, it was her window of opportunity.

    I mean, everyone won in this! except the Blood elves, poor guys just got royaly screwed!

  12. #392
    It seems Jaina is moving Dalaran to pandaria.

  13. #393
    Mechagnome Boogieknight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Rider View Post
    It seems Jaina is moving Dalaran to pandaria.
    It would appear so, and it would also appear that island isn't Zandalar either like others thought. I'm curious if Dalaran will be identical to its Wrath counterpart, or if it will be kinda battle-worn when we get access to it.
    Anyone else think Jaime Lannister only has the Kingslayer title because he was just too lazy to kill the king on heroic mode?

  14. #394
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    The Isle of the Thunder King is the new daily questing zone, with the Kirin-Tor Offensive led by Jaina Proudmoore and the Sunreaver Onslaught led by Lor'themar Theron.
    Soo, Ally only Dalaran would appear in pandaria

  15. #395
    Mechagnome Boogieknight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Rider View Post
    Soo, Ally only Dalaran would appear in pandaria
    Figured that much out, just not sure if the building models and such would be identical or if it would physically look battle-worn or grounded.
    Anyone else think Jaime Lannister only has the Kingslayer title because he was just too lazy to kill the king on heroic mode?

  16. #396
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Rider View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    The Isle of the Thunder King is the new daily questing zone, with the Kirin-Tor Offensive led by Jaina Proudmoore and the Sunreaver Onslaught led by Lor'themar Theron.
    Soo, Ally only Dalaran would appear in pandaria
    I would assume it will be like 5.1 where the Alliance have a flying quest hub and the Horde are stuck on the ground .

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Rider View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    The Isle of the Thunder King is the new daily questing zone, with the Kirin-Tor Offensive led by Jaina Proudmoore and the Sunreaver Onslaught led by Lor'themar Theron.
    Soo, Ally only Dalaran would appear in pandaria
    Would be cool to see but looking at the maps of thunder isle it doesnt seem to appear there yet and besides northrend and pandaria is fucking miles away it took the combined ships of the alliance and horde 2 months to reach pandaria

    does dalaran have warp capability

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/#image=52maps:1

  18. #398
    Old God Nerraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    Would be cool to see but looking at the maps of thunder isle it doesnt seem to appear there yet and besides northrend and pandaria is fucking miles away it took the combined ships of the alliance and horde 2 months to reach pandaria

    does dalaran have warp capability

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/#image=52maps:1
    Wormhole Drive.

  19. #399
    Mechagnome Boogieknight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    does dalaran have warp capability

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/#image=52maps:1
    Lotta mages = big-ass portal.
    Anyone else think Jaime Lannister only has the Kingslayer title because he was just too lazy to kill the king on heroic mode?

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogieknight View Post
    Lotta mages = big-ass portal.
    Can mages really create a portal that can transport an entire city?

    If they can that would prolly be the most OP thing in the whole of azeroth

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