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  1. #41
    Pandaren Monk Moosie's Avatar
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    There really isn't anything to do in game. Like people before me have said, some people like dailies, but most don't. While they didn't add many dailies, and the average raider most probably won't give a crap about operation shield wall (apart from getting to revered using the dailies). Outside of raids we are already back to cata. Pet battles could have been an amazing feature, and I did all the trainers up to northrend and got a little bored, sold my level 25 pets for 20k each and haven't really gone back to it since, it gets a little...tedious after a while. Challenge modes are basically your average 5 mans but harder, which we are forced to run everyday in order to cap valor anyway. They should have made some totally new dungeons, especially for challenge mode. Other small things like scenarios, which are useless dungeons you only do to cap the 15 a week for guild challenge.

    Apart from that, and dailies, there really isn't much to do outside of raiding. I'm just glad we have 3 raids so it means most of my free time is spent raiding, would be nice to have something ingame to keep everyone occupied, and not grinding dailies or dungeons for cap.

    Would really love to see something like a mount racing mini-game were you queue up for it, and placing 1st etc can unlock new mounts or pets. Something, original for an MMORPG.
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  2. #42
    The problem is, the game FORCED you to grind dailies like mad if you were a competitive raider getting ready for T14.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Just to be clear, I'm not sure I buy into the 'not doing dailies is just like not gemming or enchanting your gear' argument. I understand where it comes from but I don't know that it applies in this specific case at this specific point in time.
    Both are conscious and voluntary investments made by the players in order to increase their power. You can obviously also raid without either, or without using trinkets.

    All in all gaining the access to epic items was a massive performance increase in the beginning of the expansion. If you did not have them you put yourself in an extremely unfavourable position regarding especially the PvE race, not to even mention factors like peer pressure.

    I believe one of the main reasons for why so many are bothered by the daily quests is that subjecting oneself to the notable time investment that they are is required for the valor rewards. Personally I would prefer if the valor items were simply placed in an alternative source and reputations left for other kinds of rewards. If I really wanted to get creative I might suggest placing a valor vendor at the end of a normal raid instance or something similar while keeping the rewards available through reputations, making it so that the players themselves could determine the way in which they want to access the items.

  4. #44
    The number of dailies aren't the problem. Its that gear used for raiding is tied to the rep that makes doing all those dailies mandatory if you want to be competitive.

    I would've been completely happy if you could do all those dailies and earn the valor from them, but have a valor vendor that doesn't require you to have rep to buy anything. That way it is completely your choice if you want to go the extra mile and get extra vp by doing the dailies, or if you didn't want to do dailies, you could run dungeons, scenarios, etc for it.

    They say that they give you so much to do, but really they were forcing anyone who wanted upgrades in gear for raids to do dailies, which basically killed the game for me and many other people that I know. Its a shame.

  5. #45
    Golden lotus took too long, but august celestials / shado pan and even the klaxxi I never had problems with. It was just that GL had 3 ooking quest camps at some point which costed way too much time if you where doing it on multiple chars.

    People just made the mistake of doing ALL dailies instead of doing the factions one by one or two at a time spread over the expansion like they should have from a time management pov.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 03:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Thaela View Post
    The number of dailies aren't the problem. Its that gear used for raiding is tied to the rep that makes doing all those dailies mandatory if you want to be competitive.

    I would've been completely happy if you could do all those dailies and earn the valor from them, but have a valor vendor that doesn't require you to have rep to buy anything. That way it is completely your choice if you want to go the extra mile and get extra vp by doing the dailies, or if you didn't want to do dailies, you could run dungeons, scenarios, etc for it.

    They say that they give you so much to do, but really they were forcing anyone who wanted upgrades in gear for raids to do dailies, which basically killed the game for me and many other people that I know. Its a shame.
    You need 4 weeks to completely buy everything of one faction to be done with it. There is no need to do all faction, just do one or two at a time as you cant gain more valor to spend it on these "required" valor items anyway. As stated above, too many people didnt see this at the start and got burned out on dailies.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Just to be clear, I'm not sure I buy into the 'not doing dailies is just like not gemming or enchanting your gear' argument. I understand where it comes from but I don't know that it applies in this specific case at this specific point in time.
    It provides gear upgrades at an iLevel suitable to fill gaps in a raiders gear. Raiders go after this gear all the time because it gives them an edge, makes their attempts at progression surer.

    That's undertandable. That's acceptable. That's even normal for this type of game.

    I'm not sure why you think it doesn't apply.

    The problem here is that Blizzard needlessly locked the gear behind both VP and rep, and they reduced VP rewards.

    The upside is that this means players have plenty to do. They can't do get their VP cap in a single day. They'll always have something to do to reach their cap, some goal to work towarsd to get their gear.

    The downside is that it's a lot of work, its repetitive, not everyone likes dailies, it's seen as mandatory content instead of optional and fun, and the rewards for any individual raid/scenario/dungeon are seen as pitiful, almost derogatory.

    In someways, Blizzrad are caught between two bad options here since the alternative would be little to do once you had the VP and done the raids.

    EJL

  7. #47
    The dailies were too much. I was doing the bare minimum for gear, skipping cloud serpent and Tillers dailies unless I had the time and they still took 1-2 hours a day to complete, usually closer to two hours. I am not the most efficient at questing however, and I should have been grouping up with people more often to make things more efficient but I didn't.

    Thank god I don't have to grind out most of them anymore, that is all I have to say.

  8. #48
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    I'm not sure why you think it doesn't apply.
    Perhaps my experience is wildly at variance with others but I know several players who are and have been raiding successfully and have never touched a daily. The valor gear was there for those who wanted to go through the work to get it but it was not necessary to start or to succeed in T14. Filling in gaps is fine and I don't begrudge anyone that feels like they need to have it available. But to suggest that dailies are mandatory to raid at all is a stretch.

    Basically, I think the whole thing has been blown out of proportion. Mostly, I believe that people are freaking out because for the most part in the past there was one way and now there are choices. That's a significant change.
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  9. #49
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    There is probably 100s of pages on various sites (and even here) on this topic.

    As long as I see people saying "I am in a semi-HC guild and I feel I have to grind all available dailies to not hold my guild back" thing will never come to a consensus. Because my stance is: 5 man heroics give loot to be able to clear normal modes. And most importantly: Guilds have proven time and again that SKILL > GEAR and have cleared both normal and hardmodes in times that made it impossible to be min/ maxed in gear from daily grind. If you STILL need VP gear to not hold your guild back, you are only semi hardcore at failing IMHO. Maybe hardcore what the amount of hours invested goes. Certainly not hardcore on the skill.

    I hope this discussion (or should I say "whine") doesn't make Blizzard decide "Oh well, if you have no self-control, the daily cap of 25 goes back. I had to run 5 mans to the point of throwing up in TBC, WotLK and Cata for my rep (well..with a few dailies inbetween) and hoped for a different way to get my rep and my valor - I had to bear it and grin. Now the foot is on the other shoe and I like it.
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  10. #50
    As long as I see people saying "I am in a semi-HC guild and I feel I have to grind all available dailies to not hold my guild back" thing will never come to a consensus. Because my stance is: 5 man heroics give loot to be able to clear normal modes. And most importantly: Guilds have proven time and again that SKILL > GEAR and have cleared both normal and hardmodes in times that made it impossible to be min/ maxed in gear from daily grind.
    Raiders feel pressure to do dailies to get valor items to fill certain holes their gear that they may not have gotten from raiding normal or heroic mode content. The problem isn't that raiders CAN'T down raid content without badge gear, it is that they are afraid that if they do not grind out rep that they will not remain competitive with their peers or be seen as being "serious enough" raiders and will be replaced with those who have ground out dailies for badge gear. There is more to competitive performance than gear but filling out those gear slots makes a difference.

  11. #51
    Herald of the Titans Pancaspe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasblossom View Post
    The majority has spoken on this issue and Blizzard themselves have acknowledged that some dailies namely the Klaxxis and Golden Lotus dailies were too many and that the Shado Pan fewer quests more rep model is better. So we seem to be more than justified in our "complaining."
    Well that is sad that the whiners get to control the game. I loved teh Golden Lotus and Klaxxis Dailies. I looked forward to doing them everyday.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 01:00 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    Raiders feel pressure to do dailies to get valor items to fill certain holes their gear that they may not have gotten from raiding normal or heroic mode content. The problem isn't that raiders CAN'T down raid content without badge gear, it is that they are afraid that if they do not grind out rep that they will not remain competitive with their peers or be seen as being "serious enough" raiders and will be replaced with those who have ground out dailies for badge gear. There is more to competitive performance than gear but filling out those gear slots makes a difference.
    And just WHAT is wrong with that? If you want to raid competitively YOU PAY THE PRICE.
    @Ghostcrawler:Some advice: [My pet issue] is why there were sub losses is one of the weaker arguments players use. Players don't have that data.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Flabb View Post
    Blizzard say "dailies aeren't mandatory", but that's just it, if you log without doing them all it feels like you've wasted the day, not maxing out your rep, so you feel pigeonholed into doing them, by the time they're all done, you can't be bothered to do heroics or old raids for transmog or stuff like that. Of course, it's super-awesome having so much to do every time you log on, but, like I say, it feels like you've missed out if you don't do them every day. That's my personal view on them, anyway.
    They also removed head enchants because they felt that player felt that a certain rep faction was required. Yet give you no other option to spend your valor tokens. I hated dailies since vanilla. I refused to them for the longest time. Was I the most popular in a raiding guild? sure was not. Now I cant ignore them, and its the same crap over and over. Your post pretty much sums up the way I feel, and the developers lack of innovation astounds me, especially how fine tuned this game has become over the years.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 09:09 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Perhaps my experience is wildly at variance with others but I know several players who are and have been raiding successfully and have never touched a daily. The valor gear was there for those who wanted to go through the work to get it but it was not necessary to start or to succeed in T14. Filling in gaps is fine and I don't begrudge anyone that feels like they need to have it available. But to suggest that dailies are mandatory to raid at all is a stretch.

    Basically, I think the whole thing has been blown out of proportion. Mostly, I believe that people are freaking out because for the most part in the past there was one way and now there are choices. That's a significant change.
    Ok so where is my choice? I do raid at a casual level. I hate doing dailies....HATE THEM. Its the same thing over and over. I have three other alts at 90, and guess what? Same thing over and over. So now I have valor from Heroic dungeons that we do, and I do not want to do dailies....where can I spend my valor? What other option do I have to spend them on current gear? Where is my choice?

  13. #53
    Comparing rep valor gear to enchants and gems is ludicrous. You can get gear elsewhere.
    Last edited by Aesahaettr; 2012-12-15 at 09:28 AM. Reason: spelling

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Perhaps my experience is wildly at variance with others but I know several players who are and have been raiding successfully and have never touched a daily. The valor gear was there for those who wanted to go through the work to get it but it was not necessary to start or to succeed in T14. Filling in gaps is fine and I don't begrudge anyone that feels like they need to have it available. But to suggest that dailies are mandatory to raid at all is a stretch.

    Basically, I think the whole thing has been blown out of proportion. Mostly, I believe that people are freaking out because for the most part in the past there was one way and now there are choices. That's a significant change.
    It's a significant change to the skinner box both in terms of where you get your rewards and how often and frequent you obtain them. That's the biggest sin about this whole thing. The change has robbed the game of any illusion that it was anything other than a giant skinner box. Frankly it's crap IMHO and I hope the developers realize this sooner rather than leter.

  15. #55
    And just WHAT is wrong with that? If you want to raid competitively YOU PAY THE PRICE.
    Nothing imo. But you were arguing that dailies are optional...which, while yes this is true, no one is holding you at gunpoint and making you do your dailies each day, and they are not required to clear raid content....to these people who are worried about maxing their performance as much as possible in order to hold onto their raid spot, dailies to them may "feel" mandatory, whether or not they actually are.

    The major problem I have with dailies was that MoP was supposed to bring this element of choice into valor capping each week, but the amount of valor each heroic offered at expansion release coupled with the fact that valor required rep to spend, which required completing quests/dailies in order to obtain since one can not champion MoP reputations meant that players were denied that element of choice until their reputations were maxed or at the level needed to obtain a particular item if they were interested in spending their valor points at all.

  16. #56
    I don't like playing WoW so much as I just like getting gear. That isn't to say I don't like raiding or dungeons for gear/currency. Doing dailies beyond the rep requirement is too far removed from getting gear for my taste. Although, I did like the 5.1 faction questline.
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    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
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  17. #57
    Mechagnome Aisriyth's Avatar
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    I don't have a problem with blizzards philosophy of why they did dailies. In fact i agree with it. Lets you see the factions story. The problem is its incredibly alt unfriendly. Additionally it is forceful.

    I think blizzard should find as many ways to do something as possible. If i want to run dungeons for rep, they should let me, just cap it or make it tied with the story. I myself am ocd about rep bars so i have to max them 999 exalted.

    Which, furthermore the biggest thing i hate isn't the dailies so much as the friendships.... ugh.

    Imo. once exalted with tillers all the dailies should be friendship dailies same with anglers.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    It provides gear upgrades at an iLevel suitable to fill gaps in a raiders gear. Raiders go after this gear all the time because it gives them an edge, makes their attempts at progression surer.

    That's undertandable. That's acceptable. That's even normal for this type of game.

    I'm not sure why you think it doesn't apply.

    The problem here is that Blizzard needlessly locked the gear behind both VP and rep, and they reduced VP rewards.

    The upside is that this means players have plenty to do. They can't do get their VP cap in a single day. They'll always have something to do to reach their cap, some goal to work towarsd to get their gear.

    The downside is that it's a lot of work, its repetitive, not everyone likes dailies, it's seen as mandatory content instead of optional and fun, and the rewards for any individual raid/scenario/dungeon are seen as pitiful, almost derogatory.

    In someways, Blizzrad are caught between two bad options here since the alternative would be little to do once you had the VP and done the raids.

    EJL

    Out of curiosity why do dailies have to have progression rewards for them to be something to do? Could they not have simple had mounts and pets and xmog gear and other vanity bullcrap and still been something to do?

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    There is probably 100s of pages on various sites (and even here) on this topic.

    As long as I see people saying "I am in a semi-HC guild and I feel I have to grind all available dailies to not hold my guild back" thing will never come to a consensus. Because my stance is: 5 man heroics give loot to be able to clear normal modes. And most importantly: Guilds have proven time and again that SKILL > GEAR and have cleared both normal and hardmodes in times that made it impossible to be min/ maxed in gear from daily grind. If you STILL need VP gear to not hold your guild back, you are only semi hardcore at failing IMHO. Maybe hardcore what the amount of hours invested goes. Certainly not hardcore on the skill.

    I hope this discussion (or should I say "whine") doesn't make Blizzard decide "Oh well, if you have no self-control, the daily cap of 25 goes back. I had to run 5 mans to the point of throwing up in TBC, WotLK and Cata for my rep (well..with a few dailies inbetween) and hoped for a different way to get my rep and my valor - I had to bear it and grin. Now the foot is on the other shoe and I like it.
    Increased character power helps no matter the skill level. This is especially true in the beginning of an expansion when the upgrades are massive. Arguing that someone is a bad player because he feels like he should grind dailies for upgrades is silly beyond belief.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aesahaettr View Post
    Comparing rep valor gear to enchants and gems is ludicrous. You can get gear elsewhere.
    There were valor upgrades that you couldn't find equivalents or upgrades for from MSV and even beyond. Some of them were the only available epic item options for a notable amount of time. Gear is also not guaranteed and pointless (for the current tier) if obtained after the progression is over.

    I also already described before why I think the two are remotely comparable for people who care about maximizing their character's effectiveness. It is not meant as a perfect comparison but as a way to demonstrate the nature of the upgrades.

  20. #60
    People get spoiled and get used to get everything fast (thx to wrath and cata), now when they have to do something for long time, it seems unfriendly

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