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  1. #1
    Field Marshal Thunderfap's Avatar
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    [MW] Meleeweaver: Viable?

    Hey chaps.
    I'm currently leveling a Monk as Mistweaver. Have to say I'm LOVING meleeweaving.
    Was basically wondering if it's viable at endgame. E.g. heroic dungeons and lfr.
    If so, what stats should I prioritise?

    Cheers.

  2. #2
    Spirit. Because of our 5.1 nerf, you will want spirit to compensate for the amount of mana jab actually costs at 90. Tooltip still reads 9k when it's actually 11,700 (i tested this on WoL). Int > Spirit (Until you feel comfortable) > Haste (3148 OUT of Serpent Stance) > Crit > Mastery (unless you really like to crap orbs everywhere)

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyse View Post
    Spirit. Because of our 5.1 nerf, you will want spirit to compensate for the amount of mana jab actually costs at 90. Tooltip still reads 9k when it's actually 11,700 (i tested this on WoL). Int > Spirit (Until you feel comfortable) > Haste (3148 OUT of Serpent Stance) > Crit > Mastery (unless you really like to crap orbs everywhere)
    Unglyphed jab with a non-fist weapon really does cost 9k, though. At least it did when I tested it when the hotfix was first implemented.

  4. #4
    The Patient Foxtails's Avatar
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    Check out my profile if you want, i fist weave for the majority of the fights. the 6146 haste cap helps if you can reach it (in serpent stance), otherwise 3145 is perfectly fine. then tons and tons of crit which really helps with mana and makes it viable.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...zfire/advanced
    Last edited by Foxtails; 2012-12-14 at 04:09 PM.

    Sig by the amazing Shyama! <Ascension 16/16 H 25man oceanic>

  5. #5
    Brewmaster Raxxed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxtails View Post
    Check out my profile if you want, i fist weave for the majority of the fights. the 6146 haste cap helps if you can reach it (in serpent stance), otherwise 3145 is perfectly fine. then tons and tons of crit which really helps with mana and makes it viable.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...zfire/advanced
    Fistweaving ftw, carries the dps.
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.

  6. #6
    Field Marshal Thunderfap's Avatar
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    Excellent. Cheers guys.
    Another thing, what changes using a fist weapon? Is there a passive I'm not seeing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    Unglyphed jab with a non-fist weapon really does cost 9k, though. At least it did when I tested it when the hotfix was first implemented.
    Last edited by Thunderfap; 2012-12-14 at 04:44 PM.

  7. #7
    The Patient Foxtails's Avatar
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    As in how jab changes to like clobber etc? there is no difference.

    Sig by the amazing Shyama! <Ascension 16/16 H 25man oceanic>

  8. #8
    Dont forget to tell the guy that ye its viable but in your itlv - which doesnt represent the average gear MW will have when they will first time enter T14 -_-
    Cause the begining will feel more like banging ur head into the wall . and then got graduetly better.

  9. #9
    The Patient Foxtails's Avatar
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    Mmm, i started fistweaving after we finished MSV, so i wasn't that geared. but it might feel painful at first it does get better as he stated.

    Sig by the amazing Shyama! <Ascension 16/16 H 25man oceanic>

  10. #10
    That's what I do all the time, so yes it's totally viable. As long as you don't start panic when your mana is draining and realize mana tea is there for that.

    Well, depends what you mean too, in end game, the viable way to do it is to jab for chi, and use blackout kick only to keep serpent's zeal up... not more than that. A full dps rotation is not viable in the long run, but you can help dps for small amount of times.

    And like poster above, I started to do this when we got to Garalon, and saw huge increase in numbers and stuck with it ever since.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Foxtails View Post
    As in how jab changes to like clobber etc? there is no difference.
    Except there is a difference, because only Jab, the punching version, got changed with the 30% mana cost increase. The other versions of it didn't. It was a mistake, and not intentional, but it also hasn't been fixed yet, at least not to my knowledge.

    Oh, and for all you starting fistweavers out there: Cranedancer's Staff. Get it. Use it. It's much more fistweaving output than any other weapon you have access to, even beating out some raid loot. If you didn't choose it for your L90 quest reward, you can still buy one at the staff vendor in monkland. The reason it's so good? It's an Int staff, with spellpower, but its DPS numbers are statted for a non-caster 2h. Its dps is way, way above any other comparable ilvl int staff.

    You'll be in for a rude awakening when you "downgrade" to your raid finder epics, however...
    Last edited by Dreyo; 2012-12-14 at 05:45 PM.

  12. #12
    Field Marshal Thunderfap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    Except there is a difference, because only Jab, the punching version, got changed with the 30% mana cost increase. The other versions of it didn't. It was a mistake, and not intentional, but it also hasn't been fixed yet, at least not to my knowledge.

    Oh, and for all you starting fistweavers out there: Cranedancer's Staff. Get it. Use it. It's much more fistweaving output than any other weapon you have access to, even beating out some raid loot. If you didn't choose it for your L90 quest reward, you can still buy one at the staff vendor in monkland. The reason it's so good? It's an Int staff, with spellpower, but its DPS numbers are statted for a non-caster 2h. Its dps is way, way above any other comparable ilvl int staff.

    You'll be in for a rude awakening when you "downgrade" to your raid finder epics, however...
    Guess I would probably get it anyways but daaamnnn.

  13. #13
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxtails View Post
    Check out my profile if you want, i fist weave for the majority of the fights. the 6146 haste cap helps if you can reach it (in serpent stance), otherwise 3145 is perfectly fine. then tons and tons of crit which really helps with mana and makes it viable.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...zfire/advanced
    What is the 6146 haste cap? Am I missing some ability that reaches a cap here?

    Edit: Nevermind, you mean 6146 haste out of serpent stance.

  14. #14
    What "rotation" and glyphs should a 463 geared monk be using to fistweave after 5.1? I'm also looking to get started but a lot of the discussions I've read are for people that already have gear.

  15. #15
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    What are you planning to do? heroic 5 mans? LFR? 10 mans? 25 mans? These are all very different styles.

    Glyphs, mana tea + renewing mist. Last slot either spinning crane kick or zen meditation (both optional, feel free to pick something else).

    Don't expect to be 'pure fistweaving' with only Jab/Tiger Palm/Blackout Kick. It's not viable for real healing. Instead, what you'll be doing as a fistweaver is jab to generate chi, blackout kick to maintain the serpent's zeal buff at 2 stacks, renewing mist on cooldown (target someone who doesn't have it or a tank), uplift for aoe healing, spinning crane kick for stacked aoe healing (sparingly, it's expensive). If there's nothing to do but you anticipate incoming damage, you can tiger palm to get the armor penetration buff and then save up 4 chi to blow on uplifts. If you need to tank heal, don't hesitate to swap to Soothing Mists + Enveloping Mists on the tank (avoid surging unless you absolutely need it-it will drain your mana).

    The only difference between a 463 geared healer and a 489+ geared healer is that you need to be more careful with your mana. If there isn't a lot of damage, just maintain Serpent's Zeal and let your mana regen a bit. You might not be able to hit the 3145 haste cap with your gear; don't sacrifice spirit for it. Ideally, although you have less throughput and mana regen, the content you are tackling is less demanding in terms of incoming damage.

    Also, don't forget your statue.

  16. #16
    Field Marshal Thunderfap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirewolfX View Post
    What are you planning to do? heroic 5 mans? LFR? 10 mans? 25 mans? These are all very different styles.

    Glyphs, mana tea + renewing mist. Last slot either spinning crane kick or zen meditation (both optional, feel free to pick something else).

    Don't expect to be 'pure fistweaving' with only Jab/Tiger Palm/Blackout Kick. It's not viable for real healing. Instead, what you'll be doing as a fistweaver is jab to generate chi, blackout kick to maintain the serpent's zeal buff at 2 stacks, renewing mist on cooldown (target someone who doesn't have it or a tank), uplift for aoe healing, spinning crane kick for stacked aoe healing (sparingly, it's expensive). If there's nothing to do but you anticipate incoming damage, you can tiger palm to get the armor penetration buff and then save up 4 chi to blow on uplifts. If you need to tank heal, don't hesitate to swap to Soothing Mists + Enveloping Mists on the tank (avoid surging unless you absolutely need it-it will drain your mana).

    The only difference between a 463 geared healer and a 489+ geared healer is that you need to be more careful with your mana. If there isn't a lot of damage, just maintain Serpent's Zeal and let your mana regen a bit. You might not be able to hit the 3145 haste cap with your gear; don't sacrifice spirit for it. Ideally, although you have less throughput and mana regen, the content you are tackling is less demanding in terms of incoming damage.

    Also, don't forget your statue.
    That's literally the exact thing I've been doing so I'm glad to see I was right Was just wondering if it would be sustainable at endgame. Looks like I'll just have to tweak my reforging and do the usual low geared healer thing of sustained throughput. I have to say though, mana tea is a god send.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderfap View Post
    That's literally the exact thing I've been doing so I'm glad to see I was right Was just wondering if it would be sustainable at endgame. Looks like I'll just have to tweak my reforging and do the usual low geared healer thing of sustained throughput. I have to say though, mana tea is a god send.
    Using the melee chi-spenders for their direct Eminence healing rapidly falls behind the necessary healing output once you hit raid levels. It's fine for fivemans. Raiding fistweaving styles use the chi for things that aren't TP/BK, except to maintain buffs.

    It's something I really wish they'd change. I want fistweaving to be a full, compelling healing style, with different strengths and weakesses. Right now, BK and TP simply don't heal for enough. Sure, one way is to increase their damage, but that may be problematic from the design side if damage gets too high. I'd much rather see a much higher multiplier on BK and TP's Eminence conversion rate, such that they aren't blown quite so horrendously out of the water by Chi Wave and Enveloping Mists in particular. That they're still beaten single-target by the AOE heals - Chi Burst and Uplift - is just downright insulting.

    Fistweaving, using TP/BK as go-to chi spenders, should be a viable way to tank heal.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    Using the melee chi-spenders for their direct Eminence healing rapidly falls behind the necessary healing output once you hit raid levels. It's fine for fivemans. Raiding fistweaving styles use the chi for things that aren't TP/BK, except to maintain buffs.

    It's something I really wish they'd change. I want fistweaving to be a full, compelling healing style, with different strengths and weakesses. Right now, BK and TP simply don't heal for enough. Sure, one way is to increase their damage, but that may be problematic from the design side if damage gets too high. I'd much rather see a much higher multiplier on BK and TP's Eminence conversion rate, such that they aren't blown quite so horrendously out of the water by Chi Wave and Enveloping Mists in particular. That they're still beaten single-target by the AOE heals - Chi Burst and Uplift - is just downright insulting.

    Fistweaving, using TP/BK as go-to chi spenders, should be a viable way to tank heal.
    sounds like you don't actually want to play a healer, it sounds like you want to do a dps rotation and have healing happen that is credited to you. Blizzard could never allow a pure smart healing option to exist like this as it would remove ALL skill from healing. What we have no is really as close as Blizzard could ever let it come and this is honestly a good place for us, it's sustainable and has a noticeable effect.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Psykewne View Post
    sounds like you don't actually want to play a healer, it sounds like you want to do a dps rotation and have healing happen that is credited to you. Blizzard could never allow a pure smart healing option to exist like this as it would remove ALL skill from healing. What we have no is really as close as Blizzard could ever let it come and this is honestly a good place for us, it's sustainable and has a noticeable effect.
    Because soothing-enveloping takes so much skill to pull off? In order to adequately heal the raid you'd still have to use RM, Uplift, and L30 talents. But as far as single-target healing...when has that EVER been hard? For any class, for that matter?

    Maybe if you were a bit less directly insulting, I'd take you more seriously.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    Unglyphed jab with a non-fist weapon really does cost 9k, though. At least it did when I tested it when the hotfix was first implemented.
    On Kil'Jaeden (US) I switched back to Mistweaver for a single fight and jab was still 11.7k. Put the glyph back on. 11.7k. Attacked Garalon. Lost a ton of mana very, very fast. I'd double check your results sometime soon.
    Gone until the next expansion.

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