1. #1
    Dreadlord Craakar's Avatar
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    Wind Lord 10 Man Normal, need help

    I'm not the raidleader or anything, but we're on 60+ wipes and it's partly made me skip 3 raids now. I don't have WoL to link, but I can say this:

    We use 3 healers, 6 dps, 1 tank.
    The Guild has actually killed it before, but haven't killed it in a month or so.
    With even 6 dps, the problem that we have is the Enrage timer.
    We used a Warrior tank, then changed to a Blood DK tank. When we swapped the warrior for the DK we also swapped a Retridin to a Shadow Priest. Upon changing the 2 people, we went from 800k raid DpS (on the whole of phase 1) to 950k.
    Our Best attempt was 12% on hitting enrage, and that was by far the best try, besides that it was 25%-30% when we hit enrage.
    Our Blood DK is our highest DpS with about 190k, peaking at 280k. Then it's a frost DK doing 190k. Our Lowest DpS is about 90k.

    I hear that most people kill it with 2 tanks, i'm just like "Wha..?", we know the mechanics, it's fine, we probably can't 2 heal it (i'm one of the healers. Just need some general tips, or would a 2nd tank (since they do alot of DpS in Phase 1) be better?
    Thanks in Advance

  2. #2
    Can't help much without logs, but...
    Quote Originally Posted by Craakar View Post
    made me skip 3 raids now.
    If this is the attitude of the majority of your raid, good luck killing anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Craakar View Post
    I hear that most people kill it with 2 tanks, i'm just like "Wha..?", we know the mechanics, it's fine, we probably can't 2 heal it (i'm one of the healers. Just need some general tips, or would a 2nd tank (since they do alot of DpS in Phase 1) be better?
    Thanks in Advance
    We killed it with 2 tanks. A second tank won't add as much DPS as you think because you'll be splitting Vengeance across 2 tanks, and then 1 becomes useless in p2.

    Who is doing 90k DPS? That's extremely low because you get a huge AoE phase and then a phase where the boss takes way more damage. People should pass your tank in p2 as well. It sounds like your DPS are just bad. This does not surprise me given the attitude you expressed in my first quote.

  3. #3
    Cut a healer for a dps and the encounter becomes easy because the enrage encounter is very tight. The key to the fight is to time raid cds or healing/damage cds during blades or have offspec heal a bit during it. Also, 90k DPS is very low considering the beginning aoe phase.

  4. #4
    Mechagnome
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    our blood tank does ~400k in the aoe phase, ends the fight at about 200k. our other dps do between 150-220k during aoe phase, and end on 130-180k. without logs cant give any advice other than say that your dps is low and a real raider wont skip raids because your wiping. the enrage is not that tight on 10man tbh, we were struggling on 25man (a few ~2% wipes to enrage and a lot of wipes to the same people standing in the poop) so we did 2 10mans. both 10mans killed it with 40sec+ left on enrage timer
    Last edited by Viggers; 2012-12-14 at 09:19 PM.

  5. #5
    Skipping raids won't get anything killed, just a tip.
    2 Tanks, 2 Healers , 6 DPS.
    CC one of each type(We had 2 healers and mage ccing).
    Kill all 3 packs at the same time.
    Make good use of Personal and Raid Cooldowns in Phase 2(This is usually a problem imo).
    That's how we do it.

  6. #6
    We roll with 2 tanks 2 healers and 6 dps.

    We CC 2 Blade lords and 2 Menders at the start and start nuking the 1 mender that is up.

    Since all of the amber trappers are up they usually die at the same time as the mender pack.

    After that one of the tanks picks up the boss and the other takes the remaining adds (blade lords), the DPS focuses the boss with cleaves on the adds (chain lightning/bladeflurry/divine storm/dots). Kill of the adds when they are low / directly after a rain of blades so you don't get more x3 enrage stack rains than you can handle.

    Finish of boss while rotating healing/raid cooldowns to survive the Rain of Blades.

  7. #7
    One thing that isn't mentioned is the point when you lust/hero or which adds you're CCing.

    Amber trappers will lower dps/healing if all 3 are active as the frequency of traps will be faster than the debuff clears as well as the pool debuff.

    Lust is probably best used during the wind bomb phase to get out of it as fast as possible.

    There are many ways to do this boss. My guild CC's one trapper and blademaster and two menders, focusing the menders while dealing as much AoE as possible. We then proceed to kill the trappers and blademasters at the same time (since both sets have two, they are at the same health). 1 blood dk tank, 3 healers, 6 dps.

  8. #8
    Scarab Lord TheWindWalker's Avatar
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    How are you hitting an enrage timer if 90k DPS is your lowest? Ours almost downed him last week and half the DPS were in the 90s. We died to windbombs and healers getting mowed down by the glaive toss before leaving after only an hour on him due to a healer having a final to deal with in the morning. We had him down to 20% without any Enrage issues.
    No matter what path you walk in life we all have to face Jaraxxus one day.

  9. #9
    Dreadlord Craakar's Avatar
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    Honestly the reason I skipped the raids is because, whenever I suggested that we get a 2nd tank, or swap someone around, I get told "we've killed it this way before", and nothing gets changed.

  10. #10
    I would recommend CCing 2 menders, 1 Trapper, and 1 blade lord. Make sure to kick every mender heal and otherwise AoE. We lust at the start and pop all CDs to kill adds. Don't let any of the CC break and make sure to break ppl out of traps ASAP. After all the adds die move the boss into the middle of the room an have the raid spread out in a circle around him. Make sure not to break wind traps and use healing CDs on the rain of blades.

    Our grp consisted of 3 heals, 1 tank, and 6 dps the first time we killed this boss. We recently started doing 2 heals. Remember that most of the time lost is during the add phase and you guys should be able to 1 shot it if CC is kept and mends are kicked properly.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Craakar View Post
    Honestly the reason I skipped the raids is because, whenever I suggested that we get a 2nd tank, or swap someone around, I get told "we've killed it this way before", and nothing gets changed.
    Going 2-tank will not help you beat the enrage, unless it allows you to switch a healer to dps as well. The second tank will steal vengeance from the first so overall damage done by tanks will go up by the amount of damage a vengeance-less tank does, at the expense of losing a dps.

  12. #12
    If you have a hunter, tell him to go Thrill of the Hunt/Lynx Rush/Barrage spec. Makes wonders in that fight.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    We killed it with 2 tanks. A second tank won't add as much DPS as you think because you'll be splitting Vengeance across 2 tanks, and then 1 becomes useless in p2.
    True, but 2 tanks + 2 heals should be more dps than 1 tank and 3 heals.

    Some suggestions to maximize dps on the boss:

    1. Try to balance your dps between the boss and the aoe on the adds so the boss is close to 75% around the time the last set of adds die. If you have dot classes, they should be keeping dots up on the boss in addition to the aoe for the adds. The tank that has the boss can keep some dps on the boss as well to get it close. Just becareful not to push the boss past 75% before the adds die, or you get windbombs and extra damage with the annoyance of the adds.
    2. Lust in P2, but make sure everyone's DPS CDs are back. The phase is pretty long, so you should be able to fit a full lust in whenever all 3 minute CDs are back.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ananoon View Post
    True, but 2 tanks + 2 heals should be more dps than 1 tank and 3 heals.

    Some suggestions to maximize dps on the boss:

    1. Try to balance your dps between the boss and the aoe on the adds so the boss is close to 75% around the time the last set of adds die. If you have dot classes, they should be keeping dots up on the boss in addition to the aoe for the adds. The tank that has the boss can keep some dps on the boss as well to get it close. Just becareful not to push the boss past 75% before the adds die, or you get windbombs and extra damage with the annoyance of the adds.
    2. Lust in P2, but make sure everyone's DPS CDs are back. The phase is pretty long, so you should be able to fit a full lust in whenever all 3 minute CDs are back.
    True, but going with 2 GOOD GEARED healers needs perfect raid CD's timing. Our first kill was 1 tank and 2 healers, next week we tried with 3 and killed with almost 40 seconds to enrage, that's fine for us. I don't lilke the idea of 2 tanks just because the one who isn't tanking the boss on P2 becomes almost useless. Having a healer monk stacked in melee range represents no danger of having bombs right next to the stack point. Also i really don't think bloodlust should be used on P2 there's a lot of movement so you're not getting a full benefit from it, instead use it to bring down one class of adds quick enough in P1. Our strat: 1 Tank and 3 healers, we CC one Blademaster, one Battle-mender and 2 Amber-trappers. We kill amber-trappers first, then CC a Blademaster and Amber-trapper, use bloodllust to kill all of them at the same time. P2 is just about stacking a bit and using CD's and kiting the boss.

  15. #15
    Don't be afraid to try 2 tank + 3 healing it if you have a decent monk tank available. Have the monk tank the adds and the other tank take the boss. Yes, the monk tank's dps will be lower during P2, but they can still do respectable damage even without vengeance, and P1 will be so much quicker.
    Quote Originally Posted by Karragon View Post
    I'd like WoW to be a single player game

  16. #16
    it is possible to 1 tank 2 heal the fight.. yes it sounds tough but just make sure u mass dispel every quickening and u should be fine.. 90k aoe dps is pathetic.. tell that raider to smarten up.. the lowest in my raid kill is like 120k.. or 115... anyway.. since the phase is just avoiding the whirling blade and windbombs.. as well as calling out for cds.. the enrage timer would be very easy with the extra dps.. just make sure to aoe the adds down fast lol... if u need to 2 tank it thats still possible.. but meh.. ur dps needs to step it up.. even as a frost mage i can pull nearly 90k-100k single target.. and around 125-130 sustained (w adds)on that fight

  17. #17
    Are you sure your guild is not letting any healing through?

  18. #18
    Killed this boss on our first night of attempts.

    1 tank/3 heals/6 DPS

    CC: 2 Menders, 1 Blade, 1 Trapper.

    Anyone not CC'ing should have the 1 mender out on /focus to interrupt his heal (Mending). Other than that you AoE, break people out, and kill them at the same time (Make sure Menders die first). Then last phase should begin at about 3:00+ minutes left until enrage timer. Next time we're probably going to 1 Tank/2 Heal it just to make the DPS quota a little easier.

    And you're also the kind of player I hate as a raid leader.

  19. #19
    If you have the interrupts for this boss I would highly recommend CCing 2 trappers over 2 menders. This helps with less people being trapped and as long as you have people on interrupts it shouldn't be an issue.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-16 at 09:25 AM ----------

    Also with less traps that's more DPS spent killing everything.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Craakar View Post
    it's partly made me skip 3 raids now.
    Well that's not going to get anything killed, terrible attitude.

    We 1 tank 3 healed it. It sounds like you've just got bad dpsers somewhere in the mix.

    I'm not sure about dps during the AOE phase, but I ended up single targeting for almost the entirety of P1 as affliction (14 seeds cast over the duration of the fight), simply because we CC 4 adds so the dmg was really lopsided, I still came out doing 143k dps, not sure how you can get people as low as 90k. We had one really weak dps who was on trial and still beat the encounter with almost a minute left.

    Your tank dps sounds okay, our paladin solo tanking it averaged out at 185k.

    There's no reason to 2 tank it, it splits the vengeance so that one tank usually ends up with heaps of it and the other just wasting a spot, stick to 1 tanking if you can heal it.
    Not much reason to 2 heal it either.

    How many adds are you CCing? We did it with 4 CCd (1 mender, 1 blade lord and 2 trappers), if you're struggling to meet the enrage maybe having only 3 adds CCd so you can do more AOE to the groups would help. On the other hand, if you've got menders getting heals off, maybe you need to CC an extra one of those or fix that problem.

    It's really hard to give help without logs since I can't see where you're failing, whether it's due to heals going off in P1, crap dps in P1 or P2 etc.

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