Time to discuss gun regulation in the US?

[Skizo]

i just think most americans are an ignorant bunch & will never come to terms with their failings & massacres like this will unfortunatly always take place there

this is so incredibly intolerant...
Let other people live a different life than you, what's the problem?

[Roxinius]

i just think most americans are an ignorant bunch & will never come to terms with their failings & massacres like this will always take place there

after reading this yes were the ignorant ones be careful there wouldn't want to fall off your high horse

[Kazi]

it is NOT your job to protect yourself from crime. It is the police job to do that.

That is the most ridiculouse statement I have ever seen. As a father/husband, it IS my job to protect myself and my family. Someone breaks into my house, I am calling the police, sure. But what about until they get there? It's not my job to defend my family? Are you insane?

Um no. so many people seem to think that a person who is going to kill is going to try and use the best thing available. If not a gun they'll have to go to a knife or some type of blunt object. Those objects though take longer (if you're mass killing) and on top of that it is easier for other people to stop you and not be as intimidated if you have a knife or a club. Also you are more likely to survive a blow to the head by a club or bat, than a bullet to the brain.

No, my point is that a CRIMINAL will get a gun anyways. They do not abide by the law. FFS.

[Atrea]

No, it isn't. The only way you could do it is with a Constitutional amendment which is never, ever, at all, absolutely not going to happen. Also, anyone who advocated limiting fun freedom in any other way is actively advocating betrayal of the foundation of the country itself, the Constitution.

I have news for you.

There have been twenty-seven (27) constitutional amendments - the most recent in May of 1992.
In fact, the 'right to bear arms' is established in a constitutional amendment.

If you had any idea how constitutional amendments are ratified, you'd know that the process can take a very long time - for instance, the 27th amendment was proposed on September 25th, 1789 - the same day the 1st through 10th amendments were proposed - but was not ratified by the states until May of 1992.

[Roxinius]

Does that happen often where you live? Do people often break into your home armed with a firearm intending to murder you? If so, I suggest you move somewhere safer.

i suggest you go back to sipping your tea no it doesnt happen here but guess what 911 response time are still a joke anywhere in the end im not giving up my guns or my right to protect myself

[Deleted]

I have my guns in a safe, i also have a pistol on my nightstand... i dont live with kids, so i do not need to worry about that, when i leave the house i lock my shit up, when im home, its out and ready to use... that is how most people are.

But it is not enforced, otherwise 600,000 wouldnt be stolen or lost each year. How the fuck can anyone lose a gun anyway?

[Shadoweye]

i just think most americans are an ignorant bunch & will never come to terms with their failings & massacres like this will always take place there

Congratulations..... you have an opinion... i also have an opinion... i will never be a slave to oppression from an enemy, either foreign or domestic. I have an ability to protect myself from my government, my enemies, and have an ability to secure what i need, should i need.

[Wildtree]

And just like your non-linked experts, I'm no magician or seer, so I can't tell you what "COULD" have happened.

Just follow the news.. There's plenty of expert analysis to be heard, seen and read.
Or maybe just ask some well trained soldier about combat situation in the dark.

[Deleted]

Does that happen often where you live? Do people often break into your home armed with a firearm intending to murder you? If so, I suggest you move somewhere safer.

It's a strange kind of paranoia to think yourself that important that someone would willingly break into your house with the sole intention of killing you. More often than not injuries occur when people startle or try to confront burglars and wind up shot or stabbed.

Criminals largely carry weapons as self-defence against occupants of houses that are also carrying weapons as self-defence. It's just one massive downward spiral of paranoia.

[Deleted]

i suggest you go back to sipping your tea no it doesnt happen here but guess what 911 response time are still a joke anywhere in the end im not giving up my guns or my right to protect myself

Insults now? I am not drinking tea at the moment, it is chicken soup. When did I say you had to give up guns? Stop telling lies.

[Deleted]

Wait... i thought that locking your firearms up was actually legislated in some states, are you saying theres nothing in place whatsoever that regulates it?

I really dont know much about gun control in the states

[Roxinius]

Insults now? I am not drinking tea at the moment, it is chicken soup. When did I say you had to give up guns? Stop telling lies.

did i say you said that no it was a statement

[Wildtree]

That is the most ridiculouse statement I have ever seen. As a father/husband, it IS my job to protect myself and my family. Someone breaks into my house, I am calling the police, sure. But what about until they get there? It's not my job to defend my family? Are you insane?

It is your job to maximize crime prevention.
Secure your house from easy break-in. Install Alarm systems. Pay the extra bucks that sets off the alarm at the police station.
I've once accidentally set off the fire alarm at someone's house.. It took 2 minutes and the fire dept was here.

Change your mindset away from the John Wayne attitude..

[Themius]

That is the most ridiculouse statement I have ever seen. As a father/husband, it IS my job to protect myself and my family. Someone breaks into my house, I am calling the police, sure. But what about until they get there? It's not my job to defend my family? Are you insane?




No, my point is that a CRIMINAL will get a gun anyways. They do not abide by the law. FFS.

For fuck sakes you're the one who doesn't get it lol.

Criminals will get guns, sure, but when there are LESS GUNS TO BE HAD THERE WILL BE LESS CRIMINALS WITH GUNS.e

[ddark]

No.. The police is there to protect you BY enforcing the law.

This debate is irrelevant, who do we call to protect us from the police?
The right to bear arms is to protect a free society from a tyrannical government.

[Deleted]

did i say you said that no it was a statement

Yet you quoted me, hence you were replying to me or commenting on something I said.

[Sackman]

A little comparison which might upset some people but it's the truth.
Cities by homicide rate per 100 000 by most recent statistic.
Berlin (Germany) - 1.1
Detroit (USA) - 34.5
Bucharest (Romania)- 0.9
Washington (USA) - 21.9
Seoul (Republic of Korea)-2.4
Cincinnati (USA) - 19.0
Mumbai (India) - 1.3
Boston (USA) - 11.3
Athens (Greece) - 1.3
Los Angeles (USA) - 7.6
Toronto (Canada) - 1.5
New York City (USA) - 6.4
Tokyo (Japan) - 0.4
After a quick calculation it turns out that you are 86.25 times more likely to be killed in Detroit than in Tokyo.
Also guess which country has the strictest gun control from all of these ? Yes, the one with the lowest murder rate by far - Japan.

Suggesting that it is all to do with gun crime is silly, and you just end up looking silly. Particularly, when you just link random countries around the world, comparing them to some of the largest US cities with some of the worst gangland violence, and a huge discrepancy between rich and poor against some of the safest cities in the world.

For example, the United Kingdom has a national homicide rate of 1.2 per 100,000. Japan has 0.3. You are 4x as likely to die in the UK as you are in Japan by intentional homicide, according to figures. The us is 4.2, which makes you less than 4x as likely to die in the US as you are in the UK. This is not so simple as to say GUNS CAUSE THIS.

Do Guns make you 4x as likely to die in the UK as in Japan? No. Because Guns are controlled here(UK) to a great extent. There are massive differences in culture, size, population etc and you cannot make such grand interpretations and conclusions from such simple statistics just to support your idea. Again - you just look silly, and anyone with any intelligence will laugh your argument away.

It also doesn't help that the US has states that many don't even consider when looking at these figures. For example, the US includes the District of Columbia (24.0) and Puerto Rico (22.61). Huge numbers that skew statistics if not included in your arguments.

Also, showing how lacking you are in knowledge and understanding, the cities you linked while being terrible, are not terrible compared to statewide numbers.

Louisiana has 11.8, New Mexico 8.7, Marlyand 7.7, Tennessee 7.3, Alabama 6.9.... I'm not going to continue because if you haven't noticed the trend here... theres no point you reading on.

Aside from Maryland(?), All of these states are some of the LEAST densely populated, and LEAST populated states and more so they come from states which have the HIGHEST density of WHITE Americans, and from the most well known states for racial hatred, race crimes, fanatic religious commitment and unfortunately known stereotypically for their stupidity. (Which I believe is shown true with statistics also).

These states have (comparably - compared to highest offending states) low felony rates, which means these crimes are committed out of arguments and passion.

All of these states rank highest on murder and nonnegligent manslaughter but comparably lower on arson, robbery, rape, property crime, burglary and theft etc.

Every city you linked, has incredible racial segregation. For example, Detroit is 80% BLACK, 20% White.


What I'm getting at here, and why I am stopping with the statistics, is this: the reason crime rates are so high in the locations you linked, and the locations I linked, is Racial and Economic disparity. There is a clear link between these figures, that shows race and economics has a far greater effect on crime than GUNS.

Tokyo, has a population 12.79m, 1.6% of which are foreign (not of Japanese Ethnicity), 29.6% of this 1.6% are Chinese, 26.6% are Korean. So Over 50% of the 1.6% of Japanese residents who are not Japanese, are still Asian.

Hence, why your argument, is silly (although not entirely moot). There are a miriad of other factors that you don't even consider.

[Skizo]

I think the main problem with this thread is that people are trying to find other people's rationale for wanting freedom.
People wanting more freedom is extremely irrational. We don't really need freedom of speech. We just really, really want it in order to be more free. We don't NEED to be able to smoke cigars and cigarettes, in fact it's very bad for us, but we want it because it makes us more free. We don't NEED to allow civilians to light fires in their backyards, it can even cause dangerous fires to be started, but we allow it because it makes us more free. We don't need to play allow sports to be televised where people permanently injuring each other is glorified, but we let it happen, because it makes us more free.

Ultimately, people who are willing to sacrifice freedom for safety won't understand people who aren't willing to make that trade. But I don't think it's fair for them to criticize people who want more freedoms. Just let them have their country and mind your own goddamn business in your respective country.

[Deleted]

This debate is irrelevant, who do we call to protect us from the police?
The right to bear arms is to protect a free society from a tyrannical government.

Given the training and equipment the US Government and Military have access to - you wouldn't stand a chance, even with a basement full of Assault rifles. It's a romantic notion but not a realistic one.

[Roxinius]

This debate is irrelevant, who do we call to protect us from the police?
The right to bear arms is to protect a free society from a tyrannical government.

dont bother the Europeans have no clue about the right to defend themselves they are anti-gun because they didnt fight for their rights long ago

Infracted: Please don't resort to generalizations (on the level of nations, or in this case, continents), it's against the rules of the site.