1. #1
    Mechagnome mypally's Avatar
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    Why is gun control such a touchy subject in America?

    As a non-American, I can at least understand why the gun laws are as such. What I cannot understand, and perhaps a conservative American or two can help me out here, is why there seems to be such a taboo on talking about more regulation on guns? Why do the pro gun people seem to offer the same 2-3 reasons as to why we should not discuss it, and the country just drops it. Again, this is as a non american, but these are the usual 2-3 arguments I always see, and I just don't get how people can buy them.

    The first argument is always that it is in the Constitution/is your right. Why is the Constitution not questionable? Last I checked it was amended several times. Owning a slave used to be allowed, but you folks had a little fight, and changed that. Now let me remind you that the whole "right to bear arms" came about BEFORE slavery was abolished. This seems to be a "because I say so" argument, and those types of arguments only work for parents talking to children.

    Second, is that it is an issue of someones freedom. First off, I find it ironic that this line often comes from the same folks against gay marriage and legalization of pot, but that is another issue. Lets instead consider driving a car. If you subscribe to the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" thing, then a car and a gun are in the exact same category. Except to drive a car you need a license to prove you are capable of safely operating it, both in the skills, and the mental well being side of things. If they were to require a license to buy a gun, would that really restrict your freedom? If so, then I demand that the people lobbying for loose guns laws also lobby for the removal of drivers licenses (since that would be a much larger affront to your freedom).

    Lastly, is the claim that it will not reduce the rate in which gun shootings happen. It is easy to find stats for either side of this argument, it is hard to find accurate and reliable information however. I would love to put up information showing the correlation of the availability of guns and the number of deaths due to firearms each year (not very hard to find), but this will be rebutted by some other source claiming the correlation is not causation in this case. Now, I would agree with the former over the later, but regardless of whether it would decrease crime, I think we can agree on two things. First, it will not increase the crime rate to have more restrictive gun laws. Second, if you look back at the long list of school shootings, at least 1 life would of been saved (that a definite low-ball number in my opinion) if gun laws in the area had been more restrictive.

    So what am I missing? Why is there so little progress in the gun control movement? Please inform me of the flaws in my reasoning, and why there should not be more restrictive laws on guns.
    Einstien trolled Newton so hard with general relativity

  2. #2
    It's just annoying. The things people "claim" who have apparently no clue about how guns work in the world are why it becomes so touchy.

  3. #3
    Because to many Americans are scared... im american. always have been. But from reading the posts about it and anything else for that matter just know that Americans in "general" are scared... and thats the only reason they dont want there precious guns taken from them. Poor Poor people cant use there hands to get a lil dirty... oh well. Guess thats the world we live in... a small dark pit of a lonely scared child. - From a american that knows this country is bull crap... (and to all those people that say "then move") i say nahh... i like watching a nation fall apart from the inside. its much more revealing and fun.

  4. #4
    Mechagnome mypally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakujinbakasama View Post
    It's just annoying. The things people "claim" who have apparently no clue about how guns work in the world are why it becomes so touchy.
    I understand how guns work. I've fired several pistols, and even a fully automatic gun. They are quite simple actually, point, shoot, and make sure you are well braced to absorb all that force. Unless you are of course talking about gun policy, in which case refer to point 3. If all the restrictions did was make the next school shooter not have access to an automatic weapon, that alone would save several lives. Would that not be worth it?
    Einstien trolled Newton so hard with general relativity

  5. #5
    The shortest answer is "gun culture". Every other answer is a long version of that.

  6. #6
    It is so touchy because American's are stupid (and I'm American) and they associate limiting what types of assault rifles and other unnecessary for sport and guns that are designed for one purpose- hurting people- with "AT BLACK SUN BICH IS TAKEN MY GUNS AWAY AND DIS IS MERICA SO I CAN HAVE MY GUNS IF I WANT"

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by mypally View Post
    I understand how guns work. I've fired several pistols, and even a fully automatic gun. They are quite simple actually, point, shoot, and make sure you are well braced to absorb all that force. Unless you are of course talking about gun policy, in which case refer to point 3. If all the restrictions did was make the next school shooter not have access to an automatic weapon, that alone would save several lives. Would that not be worth it?
    Accept I only know of 1 school shooting in the last 20+ years that involved an automatic weapon. And here we're back to the point. People ONLY tend to want to look at an end product as if it can be so easily isolated, rationalized, and compared. It can't. That's what "responsible" gun owners or gun advocates understand and what everyone else seems to fail to understand or refuses to even attempt to reasonable start a discussion on.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 12:33 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir NackDoe View Post
    It is so touchy because American's are stupid (and I'm American) and they associate limiting what types of assault rifles and other unnecessary for sport and guns that are designed for one purpose- hurting people- with "AT BLACK SUN BICH IS TAKEN MY GUNS AWAY AND DIS IS MERICA SO I CAN HAVE MY GUNS IF I WANT"
    See, here's another example of a "wrong" response claiming my opinion for me.

  8. #8
    Mechagnome mypally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    The shortest answer is "gun culture". Every other answer is a long version of that.
    Why is that an acceptable answer? While having a "culture" around a movement is key in making it legal (or keeping it legal in this case), that culture alone does not give merit to the argument.
    Einstien trolled Newton so hard with general relativity

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by mypally View Post
    Why is that an acceptable answer? While having a "culture" around a movement is key in making it legal (or keeping it legal in this case), that culture alone does not give merit to the argument.
    Fine, I'll waste the time.

    He's the better question which NEVER seems to get addressed EVER. Why is there such a stark difference between Canada and Sweden to the USA? Well... all the simple and rude answer is "ALL THE OTHER FUCKING VARIABLES!"

    Population
    Geography
    Economics
    Education
    Healthcare

    Notice how when you compare guns to guns it's a really lopsided conversation. You start comparing that list to the rest and it's all the sudden very different?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by mypally View Post
    Now let me remind you that the whole "right to bear arms" came about BEFORE slavery was abolished.
    Yes the constitution explicitly states that everyone has the right to hang a pair of bear arms on their wall, how can possibly be misconstrued.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by zadtrp View Post
    Yes the constitution explicitly states that everyone has the right to hang a pair of bear arms on their wall, how can possibly be misconstrued.
    Family Guy or American Dad? I don't remember which.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by mypally View Post
    Why is that an acceptable answer? While having a "culture" around a movement is key in making it legal (or keeping it legal in this case), that culture alone does not give merit to the argument.
    It's not intended to be an affirmative argument. I very much dislike my country's gun culture. Nonetheless, if you want to understand why people are touchy about gun control, I think the best starting point is researching the gun culture here. It's the same answer I'd give to someone that asked, "why is banning women from driving in Saudi Arabia OK?". Well... it's not OK, but if you want to know why it's a thing, you have to understand the cultural misogyny there.

  13. #13
    Mechagnome mypally's Avatar
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    Accept I only know of 1 school shooting in the last 20+ years that involved an automatic weapon. And here we're back to the point. People ONLY tend to want to look at an end product as if it can be so easily isolated, rationalized, and compared. It can't. That's what "responsible" gun owners or gun advocates understand and what everyone else seems to fail to understand or refuses to even attempt to reasonable start a discussion on.
    Google is making a 30 second search for automatic gun school shootings hard to find. So instead I will address the main point. While I agree with what you say "People ONLY tend to want to look at an end product as if it can be so easily isolated, rationalized, and compared. It can't." I do not see how adding restrictions to current gun laws does anything besides help decrease the number of shootings, or at least deaths. It may do nothing if I am completely wrong, but in all reality, it would reduce gun deaths. How many deaths is up for debate, but I don't see how one could be against reducing gun deaths.
    Einstien trolled Newton so hard with general relativity

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by hakujinbakasama View Post
    Family Guy or American Dad? I don't remember which.
    family guy

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by mypally View Post
    As a non-American, I can at least understand why the gun laws are as such. What I cannot understand, and perhaps a conservative American or two can help me out here, is why there seems to be such a taboo on talking about more regulation on guns?
    Guns are protected by the second amendment, is the big reason.

    It's also pretty plain that with gun control, there is simply NO room for compromise. The gun grabbers will squeeze like a boa constrictor- they already ignore all data, all common sense, and all natural law in their arguments.

    Between 800,000 and 2.5m crimes are stopped each year by private gun ownership. This means that at least around 2000 crimes were stopped on 12/14/2012 by private armed citizens. Pretty much none of these will make the news, and those that do will make the local news. Obviously a national tragedy will get more press, but all gun control advocates hear is what they want to hear, and they have a willing ally in the media.

    Self defense is a natural right, and the freedom to bear arms is plainly put in the bill of rights, right near the top. The only amendment with higher priority is free speech.


    So no gun control now, no gun control ever. We want our freedom. Stay strong, even in the light of outrageously slanted reporting and media coverage that leaves out the thousands of positive uses of guns daily. Stay strong, even as anti-freedom folk lick their lips, fire up their keyboards and talk shows to politicize yet another tragedy.



    Why is there so little progress in the gun control movement?
    Gun control is tyranny. Tyranny is not progress.

  16. #16
    Moderator Anakso's Avatar
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    As a none American I can't put my finger on it exactly but I believe it's something with the constitution. They take their constitution and what their fore fathers said extremely seriously to the point where trying to change or go against that seems to be like treason some times, and the constitution clearly states the right to bear arms.

    Well...it's the first amendment I think. I think that's the same thing though.
    Quote Originally Posted by hakujinbakasama View Post
    Family Guy or American Dad? I don't remember which.
    Family Guy

  17. #17
    Pandaren Monk Jakexe's Avatar
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    I'm not sure why but it seems the gun nuts seem to equate the right to have guns with freedom. It was crazy when I visited the US and was just able to walk into a store and pick up a gun and it was just the norm to everyone around me. This coming from someone that has alot more experience with guns than the average Aussie but it was still an odd situation where it's just so ingrained in the US culture that any criticism of the law is taken as a personal attack.
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  18. #18
    Epic! RaoBurning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xalden View Post
    Because to many Americans are scared... im american. always have been. But from reading the posts about it and anything else for that matter just know that Americans in "general" are scared... and thats the only reason they dont want there precious guns taken from them. Poor Poor people cant use there hands to get a lil dirty... oh well. Guess thats the world we live in... a small dark pit of a lonely scared child. - From a american that knows this country is bull crap... (and to all those people that say "then move") i say nahh... i like watching a nation fall apart from the inside. its much more revealing and fun.
    Way easier than actually trying to make a positive change, too, right?


    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    The shortest answer is "gun culture". Every other answer is a long version of that.
    Seconded.

    "Custom is king of all." - Herodotus
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic View Post
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  19. #19
    Miss Doctor Lady Bear Sunshine's Avatar
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    Please keep the discussion in the existing thread; thanks!

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