[Arcane] Cleaving + AoE

[Deleted]

I'm currently settled with the single target rotation involving Scorch but am not certain on what to do when in cleave or AoE fights.

What are peoples rotations for 2, 2-4, 5+ etc?

Seems a wide variety of opinions in the matter scattered across the threads.

[Eggimannd]

I'm currently settled with the single target rotation involving Scorch but am not certain on what to do when in cleave or AoE fights.

What are peoples rotations for 2, 2-4, 5+ etc?

Seems a wide variety of opinions in the matter scattered across the threads.

Take living bomb and spread it with glyph of fireblast. Arcane blast until 6 charges, use arcane missiles procs and then arcane barrage. rinse and repeat.

[shaft4783]

I just came back from not playing for a few weeks, but I was tabbing from target to target, applying NT when needed on all targets and throwing AM's out at 4+ stacks. Not only is it pretty but it seemed to do pretty good damage.

[Deleted]

I'm not exactly certain about this but for fights where there are 2-3 mobs (Stone Guard) LB might be a viable option, what that one dude said about stacking AB to 6 and then using barrage is completely misleading and just plain bad. This might give you some half decent burst but overall will suck hairy donkey balls compared with full uptime LBs/NTs. I'm personally using NTs on several targets and just keeping my single target rotation with the added NTs and some extra missile procs, could possibly do slightly better with LB but the difference is minimal.

[Deleted]

If 2-3 mobs are stacked closely it comes down to personal preference - either LB + Spread or NT on 3, both do similar damage overall but LB+Spread allows for an extra GCD.

Dropping stacks with Barrage is plain bad; only time we should be dropping stacks with barrage is if there is physically no possible way to maintain 6 stacks and stacks are going to drop. I can think of no circumstances where that is the case this tier.

If it's 6+ Mobs constantly take Frost Bomb, use Flamestrike on cooldown and Blizzard/Arcane Explosion the rest of the time; depending on positional requirements. If you ARE able to do AE, then barrage when you have either full stacks OR the number of mobs + 1 stacks (so, if 3 mobs barrage at 4 stacks), but realistically if it's 3 mobs you're better off using single target rotation

Personally, what I'm doing on Wind Lord Mel'jarak (only true AoE fight this tier) is using Frost Bomb; Flamestrike on CD and then continue single target rotation; it allows decent flexibility on which add needs to be burned and is decent dps and transitions into phase 2 quite nicely.

[kirit0]

On heroic Wind Lord Mel'jarak you want to use arcane barrage afther reaching 6 stacks

[Darkender]

This is correct - if there are more than 4 mobs arcane barrage IS the way to go. Frost bomb/living bomb, quickly build to 6 stacks then barrage rinse and repeat. This does the most aoe damage possible. flame strike = waste of cast and GCD do not use it - blizzard = waste do not use it. Arcane Explosion if trash with tons of mobs and no positional requirements.

---------- Post added 2012-12-16 at 02:32 PM ----------

and I'm assuming Serene must be talking about normal mode Wind lord, because I do well over 400k dps on heroic windlord and there is to be no flamestriking blizzarding or any of that bad aoe. It is worthless.

[mrgreenthump]

On heroic Wind Lord Mel'jarak you want to use arcane barrage afther reaching 6 stacks

Only at start really, after that point you only need to attack 4 targets tops as you should be able to do it with 3 set of adds nowdays.. And 1 could argue, cause of that start, you should prolly stay at melee and aoe with AE with using AM stacks and Frost bomb, but hey its just me

---------- Post added 2012-12-16 at 03:40 PM ----------

Personally, what I'm doing on Wind Lord Mel'jarak (only true AoE fight this tier) is using Frost Bomb; Flamestrike on CD and then continue single target rotation; it allows decent flexibility on which add needs to be burned and is decent dps and transitions into phase 2 quite nicely.

Its pretty sad then that the only true AoE fight this tier, aint an AoE fight on heroic at all.. Sure you need fair bit of cleaving, but its mainly single target fight nowdays if your dps is good.

[kirit0]

so how is your dps looks like ?

[Eggimannd]

If 2-3 mobs are stacked closely it comes down to personal preference - either LB + Spread or NT on 3, both do similar damage overall but LB+Spread allows for an extra GCD.

Dropping stacks with Barrage is plain bad; only time we should be dropping stacks with barrage is if there is physically no possible way to maintain 6 stacks and stacks are going to drop. I can think of no circumstances where that is the case this tier.

If it's 6+ Mobs constantly take Frost Bomb, use Flamestrike on cooldown and Blizzard/Arcane Explosion the rest of the time; depending on positional requirements. If you ARE able to do AE, then barrage when you have either full stacks OR the number of mobs + 1 stacks (so, if 3 mobs barrage at 4 stacks), but realistically if it's 3 mobs you're better off using single target rotation

Personally, what I'm doing on Wind Lord Mel'jarak (only true AoE fight this tier) is using Frost Bomb; Flamestrike on CD and then continue single target rotation; it allows decent flexibility on which add needs to be burned and is decent dps and transitions into phase 2 quite nicely.

From looking at your logs you are going Frost for Wind Lord. The thread specifically says Arcane. Do not give false advise when it is NOT correct. If you're Arcane on Windlord, use living bomb and spread. Then get 6 stacks, use whichever missile procs you have and then barrage. Of course this only applies when there is still 4-6 targets up. Afterwards when the adds are down you can go back to 6 stack camping.

[Dawogi]

What are most people doing for Heroic Stone Guard? Starting that tonight and I need to maximize DPS. I've been using Nether Tempest, would LB+Spread be the higher DPS choice? Or is there only a very small difference between the two?

[KoolKidKaos]

Take living bomb and spread it with glyph of fireblast. Arcane blast until 6 charges, use arcane missiles procs and then arcane barrage. rinse and repeat.

In a nut shell this ^

[mrgreenthump]

In a nut shell this ^

Still I hold my ground saying that there aint many fights that its worth doing, you need to have 3 targets to make it viable cause it will take 2 gcd's to make it spread and fireblast aint in your normal rotation, So looking at the fights.. there is none I would actually do this atm.. It could be ok for some situations, but ye even Mel'jarak benefits more from frost bomb, cause you can aoe at start due to 7 targets and then you can keep casting frost bomb when the boss is on berserk and there aint dps loss to that, though 1 could argue single target for Mel'jarak is better cause it will get the first set of adds down faster..

[Deleted]

From looking at your logs you are going Frost for Wind Lord. The thread specifically says Arcane. Do not give false advise when it is NOT correct. If you're Arcane on Windlord, use living bomb and spread. Then get 6 stacks, use whichever missile procs you have and then barrage. Of course this only applies when there is still 4-6 targets up. Afterwards when the adds are down you can go back to 6 stack camping.

Whether or not I go Frost or Arcane is negligible; if I'm aware of (what I believed to be) the correct rotation, why wouldn't I post it?

So far as I can see; the only incorrect information I provided was using Flamestrike on CD; Blizzard is situational if there are enough mobs (I never stated that on Wind Lord there was, by the way) and you can't get into melee for AE.

Also, just because my logs show I go Frost for the kill attempts doesn't mean I haven't tried the fight as Arcane before.

[Eggimannd]

Whether or not I go Frost or Arcane is negligible; if I'm aware of (what I believed to be) the correct rotation, why wouldn't I post it?

So far as I can see; the only incorrect information I provided was using Flamestrike on CD; Blizzard is situational if there are enough mobs (I never stated that on Wind Lord there was, by the way) and you can't get into melee for AE.

Also, just because my logs show I go Frost for the kill attempts doesn't mean I haven't tried the fight as Arcane before.

Your advice seemed like it was coming from a frost perspective to be honest. None of the advice you gave was viable for an Arcane mage. I would never ever cast Flamestrike or Blizzard as an Arcane mage on a cleave fight as it would not be optimal.

[Deleted]

Your advice seemed like it was coming from a frost perspective to be honest. None of the advice you gave was viable for an Arcane mage. I would never ever cast Flamestrike or Blizzard as an Arcane mage on a cleave fight as it would not be optimal.

If 2-3 mobs are stacked closely it comes down to personal preference - either LB + Spread or NT on 3, both do similar damage overall but LB+Spread allows for an extra GCD.

Dropping stacks with Barrage is plain bad; only time we should be dropping stacks with barrage is if there is physically no possible way to maintain 6 stacks and stacks are going to drop. I can think of no circumstances where that is the case this tier.

I never said that you should, either. I separated my Wind Lord discussion from my cleave discussion as I raid 25 and on 25N (HC is different) it's pretty much an AoE fight. I'm not aware of the 10M tactic but guessing from your argument it's more of a cleave fight.

[Eggimannd]

I never said that you should, either. I separated my Wind Lord discussion from my cleave discussion as I raid 25 and on 25N (HC is different) it's pretty much an AoE fight. I'm not aware of the 10M tactic but guessing from your argument it's more of a cleave fight.

If it's 6+ Mobs constantly take Frost Bomb, use Flamestrike on cooldown and Blizzard/Arcane Explosion the rest of the time; depending on positional requirements. If you ARE able to do AE, then barrage when you have either full stacks OR the number of mobs + 1 stacks (so, if 3 mobs barrage at 4 stacks), but realistically if it's 3 mobs you're better off using single target rotation

What exactly were you referring to with this then? =/
No matter what, in a cleave situation (4-6mobs), in 10n/10h/25n/25h I would never use flamestrike or blizzard as an arcane mage.

[Deleted]

What exactly were you referring to with this then? =/
No matter what, in a cleave situation (4-6mobs), in 10n/10h/25n/25h I would never use flamestrike or blizzard as an arcane mage.

Cleave situation is usually 2-4 mobs; term is coined from a warrior's cleave...

5 Mobs I usually think of as a grey area and usually steer from trying to define it for this reason.

6+ is usually AoE (at least in my opinion, yours differs). I already said I was wrong about Flamestrike; and said that Blizzard was situational use. I myself agree that I barely use Blizzard as Arcane; in fact almost never, but if AoE is required over single-target and I cannot for some reason get into range for AE, I will use Blizzard and it's better AoE DPS than Blasting/Missiles to 6 stacks and then cleaving at 6 stacks, especially if the AoE damage is required in a short period of time. Granted; AE would be better (and I explained that AE was better if you don't have positional requirements) and in periods of sustained AoE singletarget into cleave would probably also be better (numbers-wise), but this doesn't mean you shouldn't consider Blizzard in situations where it might be better.

[KroLeXz]

Cleave situation is usually 2-4 mobs; term is coined from a warrior's cleave...

5 Mobs I usually think of as a grey area and usually steer from trying to define it for this reason.

6+ is usually AoE (at least in my opinion, yours differs). I already said I was wrong about Flamestrike; and said that Blizzard was situational use. I myself agree that I barely use Blizzard as Arcane; in fact almost never, but if AoE is required over single-target and I cannot for some reason get into range for AE, I will use Blizzard and it's better AoE DPS than Blasting/Missiles to 6 stacks and then cleaving at 6 stacks, especially if the AoE damage is required in a short period of time. Granted; AE would be better (and I explained that AE was better if you don't have positional requirements) and in periods of sustained AoE singletarget into cleave would probably also be better (numbers-wise), but this doesn't mean you shouldn't consider Blizzard in situations where it might be better.

dood were talking about raiding - not trash packs or heroic dungeons.....

6 stack plus barrage cleave coupled with LB spread - end of thread. I'm ranked #31 currently on Windlord from 2 weeks ago using this strat. Zensa on US Arthas.

[Grubjuice]

living bomb can also be used like an execute, place on a mob right before it dies and it will always explode on death, damaging nearby targets, this allows your to take advantage of the deaths of multiple mobs.