1. #1

    some questions on 2h frost priority and execution

    What questions would I like to ask to really good 2h frost players?

    -I feel that I'm executing the priority described in elitist jerks and similar guides very well but I think there's room for improvement. So I'm curious to ask you if there's anything you'd recommend someone do that isn't shown in those guides?

    What I'm doing:
    -prepot and then pop army before boss, then PoF+synapse, then ghoul, then outbreak at the start of almost every fight (will is probably the only exception)
    -I feel like the two biggest areas I mess up on (especially on fights I'm not familiar with) is cooldown usage and accidentally using KM procs on frost strike. I did maybe 10 pulls on Lei Shei normal tonight and the randomness of phases on that fight made me waste PoF a few times. And I find sometimes I get into a good groove of KM procs being used on obliterate almost every time but then sometimes a proc happens just as I'm hitting frost strike and it gets used and then throws off the "rhythm". Do you guys ever delay a frost strike or obliterate slightly just to try to get a KM proc at the right time?
    -I try to pop my ghoul after having popped PoF+ synapse every time... I usually try to delay the ghoul slightly if I have to wait for PoF to come off CD
    -I'm using mrunes and weak auras to manage my runes, runic power, diseases (mrunes) and cooldowns (weak auras)
    -I try to use KM procs only with obliterate... aiming to find a "rhythm" where I do a quick frost strike in between my obliterates if I'm at 70-90+ RP and no frost striking if I'm below 70ish and have runes to use

    here is the priority I outlined in a guild app I put in a few days ago:

    What is your spell/ability rotation or priority order? Include important cooldowns both offensive and defensive. Be as detailed as possible.

    2h single target priority
    1. If enemy is below 35% hp, soul reaper because there is a secondary effect where after a few seconds a target below 35% hp takes additional damage from soul reaper.
    2. disease maintenance because your obliterate won't hit as hard if your diseases are off the target.
    3. If killing machine has procced, you obliterate regardless of how much runic power you have (even if you're capped). This ability hits so hard that wasting the runic power that could have been used on a frost strike doesn't matter when compared with the damage done by making sure you use your KM prob on an obliterate.
    4. Howling blast if rime has procced. Since howling blast doesn't produce any runic power any more, using it over a frost strike when runic power is capped does not produce any wasted resources.
    5. Frost strike if RP is over 76. When you obliterate you generate 24 runic power. So if your runic power is over 76 and you obliterate there is going to be excess runic power that does not get put on your bar and is wasted. Therefore you want to frost strike when theres no procs and you are above 76 runic power and the boss is not below 35% hp (or is below 35% but soul reaper is on CD) and diseases are up. 6. Obliterate if you have the runes, no procs up, below 76 runic power, diseases up, and boss not below 35% hp or if soul reaper is on CD while boss is below 35% hp.
    7. Frost strike if no runes are up, or even if you have a KM proc BUT you won't have the runes to use it for 6 seconds, no rime proc.
    8. horn of winter
    Cooldown usage

    Generally at the start of the fight before pull, I will prepot at 5 seconds, pop army after (so that the ghouls get the strength buff), then moving into boss I will cast pillar of frost and my synapse springs and next my big ghoul (so that the big ghoul gets the strength benefits of all the aforementioned strength buffs), then I cast outbreak on the boss to apply diseases and then obliterate and get into my priority listed above. If there is a period of high magical damage I will use anti magic shell to reduce my damage taken and if I have specced into it for that fight I will pop anti magic zone if the raid needs it. Some fights I'm specced into death's advance and some others chillbains. If specced into death's advance I will use that when I need a period of increased movements speed.

    2h multi target priority

    1. Spread diseases. I will either pop unholy blight which does an aoe disease spreading around me for 10 seconds, or I will outbreak and then use pestilence.
    2. Howling blast
    3. Death and decay
    4. Obliterate if I get a KM proc
    5. Frost strike if RP is capped or getting close to capped. One thing I'm going to start working on is trying to keep 1 UH rune off CD so that runic empowerment will proc a frost or death run which gives more howling blast spam.
    Last edited by SteelBalls; 2012-12-18 at 10:18 AM.

  2. #2
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Pets scale continuosly with our stats so there is no need to use CD/abilities before summoning them. So cast AoTD and Ghoul, then pre-pot and then PoF+w/e you have available.

    Wasting a KM on FS is not a big deal when it happens few times; you're going to use KM on FS also when OB is on CD and it won't be available within the next 1-2 seconds. Other than that download a swing timer addon (you can make one with weak auras) so you can manage better your KMs and you can decide if it's better to wait to OB to see if a KM occurs (I'd wait no more than 0.5 sec tho).

    Try to align all your CDs only if it's a matter of seconds, if you need to wait like 20-30 seconds it's better you keep them on CD.

    About your apply, rime got higher priority than KM OB.
    Last edited by Italiandk; 2012-12-18 at 10:40 AM.
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  3. #3
    Not gonna dive into anything but this one thing: Always summon your ghoul before popping PoF, that way you get more damaging abilities during it rather than wasting a GCD on Raise Dead.

  4. #4
    I use Empower Rune Weapon with my prepot and first Pillar, even if we're lusting on the pull and I RP cap.

    The only exception would be a fight like Heroic Sha where I saved my Empower for the 1st platform I get sent to, and use it will Pillar there.

    The biggest difference I've noticed as I've slowly gotten better at doing the deeps, is that I need to stack my cooldowns more and know when certain things are going to be happening in the raid. Here's a list.

    1. Lust - Pretty important to stack your CDs with lust, lusting on the pull is the most optimal way to do this. Some fights you can't lust on the pull, but I wouldn't save Pillar for more than 20 seconds.
    2. Skull Banners - Generally used on the pull. Great time to use your 2nd potion on short fights when they drop a 2nd time.
    3. Stormlash - Same thing as Skull Banner.
    4. Shatter - Pretty much the same.

    Overall you want to try to time your CDs as well as you can with the above raid CDs, as well as knowing when your trinkets are proccing so you can maximize your DPS during that time.

    A swing timer is a huge help on any fight you don't really have to move a whole lot and can really hold Obliterates. Examples are things like Elegon, Gara'jal, Lei Shi, Grand Empress, etc.

    With current haste levels you should be able to get in 2 GCDs between swings if you're holding Obliterates until after you swing. (My swing timer is @ 2.26 with about 8600 haste).

    Perfect swing timer in my opinion is around 2.1-2.15.

  5. #5
    About Obliterates usage on KM, one thing that's important to know is to not always use it as soon as you can. It's not like it's on a CD or anything. As long as you're not going to waste ressources by RP capping or rune capping, you can wait a global or two. I know this is the kinda of things that happens more with DW as 2H tends to be really GCD capped by moments, but when you can afford it , that's a good way to make sure you use your KM procs on Obliterates.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Italiandk View Post
    Pets scale continuosly with our stats so there is no need to use CD/abilities before summoning them. So cast AoTD and Ghoul, then pre-pot and then PoF+w/e you have available.

    Wasting a KM on FS is not a big deal when it happens few times; you're going to use KM on FS also when OB is on CD and it won't be available within the next 1-2 seconds. Other than that download a swing timer addon (you can make one with weak auras) so you can manage better your KMs and you can decide if it's better to wait to OB to see if a KM occurs (I'd wait no more than 0.5 sec tho).

    Try to align all your CDs only if it's a matter of seconds, if you need to wait like 20-30 seconds it's better you keep them on CD.

    About your apply, rime got higher priority than KM OB.
    Why would rime have a higher priority than KM OB?

    My reasoning for what I wrote was that KM OB hits way harder and if you use that before rime then when you use rime after, one of your auto attacks may trigger another KM proc that you would have otherwise missed or that would have overlapped into the KM proc you had first when you used rime.
    Last edited by SteelBalls; 2012-12-18 at 12:20 PM.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelBalls View Post
    Why would rime have a higher priority than KM OB?

    My reasoning for what I wrote was that KM OB hits way harder and if you use that before rime then when you use rime after, one of your auto attacks may trigger another KM proc that you would have otherwise missed or that would have overlapped into the KM proc you had first when you used rime.
    Because OB triggers rime so if you OB when you have rime up you could overwrite it wasting the previous rime proc.

    Now that rime and KM take less time to show up you won't have any problem with GCD and wasting KM proc.
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