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  1. #81
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akkoron View Post
    If a thing is to be nerfed about disc, do it with ss, nothing else wtf. holy paladins are still better than discs. and as some say, disc isnt op, its just ahead, for ONCE, so please, let us have our fame half a tier...
    Excuse me, but paladins are better than disc priests? Why exactly? We have more expensive spells requiring loads of spirit to even sustain some HP generation, an absolutely crappy mana return mechanic (12% every 2 min, yay) basically requiring a mana tide to produce competitive HPS and not exactly stellar raid cooldowns (HoSac vs Pain Supp and Aura Mastery vs PWB do not really compare). We have more trick buttons (BOP, hammer etc...) but their use is pretty situational so far. And even with the 4xPVP set (which IS an issue, but not the paladins themselves), it's not as stellar as you may depict it.

    Also, regarding the "let us have our moment of fame": just no, it doesn't work that way.

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  2. #82
    No you're right, it is ignorant to say your opinion is valid, entirely so. I'm just saying it isn't an elitist attitude. Feel free to take what I've said about Lei Shi and Sha of Fear HC as a guide (I guess) but having seen our logs (and other guild logs) in every single HC fight there is a Disc Priest at the top followed (generally if there is a second Disc Priest) by another Disc Priest. It's not fun having to sit because your class "isn't a Disc Priest" on fights and because "we need raid CDs".

    I'm speaking here purely as a Mistweaver.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by HamSandwichFace View Post
    No you're right, it is ignorant to say your opinion is valid, entirely so. I'm just saying it isn't an elitist attitude. Feel free to take what I've said about Lei Shi and Sha of Fear HC as a guide (I guess) but having seen our logs (and other guild logs) in every single HC fight there is a Disc Priest at the top followed (generally if there is a second Disc Priest) by another Disc Priest. It's not fun having to sit because your class"isn't a Disc Priest" on fights and because "we need raid CDs".

    I'm speaking here purely as a Mistweaver.
    Yet the majority of top guilds sat their priests at the beginning of the expansion, in favour of...oh yeah, monks.

    I'd politely suggest less whining and realise that the game is never balanced and sometimes your class suffers, and at other times so does mine.

  4. #84
    Over 9000! Winter Blossom's Avatar
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    I'll never understand why people will rage about an OP Healer...It's only helping the Raid group.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Celticmoon View Post
    I'll never understand why people will rage about an OP Healer...It's only helping the Raid group.
    Why rage about season 5 DKs, everyone could've had one right? Why rage about TFB warriors or stampeding hunters, everyone could have one right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rectitude View Post
    Yet the majority of top guilds sat their priests at the beginning of the expansion, in favour of...oh yeah, monks.

    I'd politely suggest less whining and realise that the game is never balanced and sometimes your class suffers, and at other times so does mine.
    And monks got rightfully nerfed. It's your turn now, Disc Priests.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Celticmoon View Post
    I'll never understand why people will rage about an OP Healer...It's only helping the Raid group.
    Because it's only fun when *you're* the one who's OP. When you're benched to make way for other classes, forced to respec or reroll...

    And no, "just buff everyone else" isn't an answer, either.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by HamSandwichFace View Post
    Why rage about season 5 DKs, everyone could've had one right? Why rage about TFB warriors or stampeding hunters, everyone could have one right?


    And monks got rightfully nerfed. It's your turn now, Disc Priests.
    Unless i missed something, this thread is about pve? Disc is the worst healer in pvp now.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by iamthedevil View Post
    Unless i missed something, this thread is about pve? Disc is the worst healer in pvp now.
    Exactly. I suggested nerfs to directly effect PvE and (in some small ways) buff the state of Disc in PvP. I'll fully acknowledge, though, I know nothing about PvP. My highest rating was 2600 as a DK, so yeah, my opinion should hold no weight at all.

  9. #89
    Over 9000! Winter Blossom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    Because it's only fun when *you're* the one who's OP. When you're benched to make way for other classes, forced to respec or reroll...
    I don't think any RL would want all their healers to be Disc. It seems mandatory to have at least one, but not all.

    I think people are just QQing because they can't keep up. My answer to that would be, as long as people aren't dying left and right, then who cares what class is top on the meters.

    I have all the healing classes (except pally), so I know there is a gap between disc and other classes, but it doesn't bother me and I've never had my other healers benched.
    Last edited by Winter Blossom; 2012-12-19 at 06:21 PM.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by HamSandwichFace View Post
    No you're right, it is ignorant to say your opinion is valid, entirely so. I'm just saying it isn't an elitist attitude. Feel free to take what I've said about Lei Shi and Sha of Fear HC as a guide (I guess) but having seen our logs (and other guild logs) in every single HC fight there is a Disc Priest at the top followed (generally if there is a second Disc Priest) by another Disc Priest. It's not fun having to sit because your class "isn't a Disc Priest" on fights and because "we need raid CDs".

    I'm speaking here purely as a Mistweaver.
    Good. First of all, we aren't topping every fight, but we are the strongest healer in the current content, that's true (even if hps doesn't tell the entire story, see my previous posts, more so because we can practically allow the raid to bypass many dangerous mechanics). I also believe that disc needs to be adjusted considering the current power and content, and that the buffs to PoH+rapture were retarded (furthering our strenghts and doing nothing to our weaknesses). All I'm getting at is that there's more to keep in mind and consider when adjusting disc than "omg they top the meters 1!11!" (which quite frankly is how much reasoning there's behind some of your comments/suggestions).

    Regarding your suggestions I already said how I felt about them, some of your suggested changes are solid (e.g. rapture), most serve basically no purpose/doesn't affect the correct things (e.g. spirit shell 30 seconds or archangel giving 5% mana) and some will just break the class entirely or require massive buffs in other areas to compensate, making it harder to balance (e.g. massive PoH mana increase).


    The reasoning from some priests that we 'deserve' to be op for a while because we used to be weak is quite frankly retarded and the only result would be that we strive further and further from a balanced game. It isn't good for the game that a class (regardless of if it's a healer or a dps) is entirely mandatory/far stronger, it results in benched players and the content having to be harder to compensate (and hence being nearly impossible for raids not stacking this class).

  11. #91
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    It frankly doesn't feel very fair to be able to SS every 1 min. It is covering way too much of all total healing, also affecting the "non disc healers" to seem to be doing a less good job. This is my biggest concern of all atm. HoF seem to be made around these 1 min burst damage aswell, making Disc too good.

    PoH is silly strong after all the buffs, even if there are no damage you can keep "healing" with it. Mana is too good with the (intended??) Rapture proccs from temporary spirit gains, and there are A LOT of proccs, with trinkets, cloak enchants, weapon enchants and MT.

    My ideas; SS needs to be 2-3 min CD. Aegis needs to be brought back to 30%. Rapture proccs should not be able to exceed a certain % of total mana or simply not be affected by proccs/MT.

    Another note while I am at it; I feel CoH got behind aswell as Sanctuary for Holy (as compared to just pure PoH spamming with DI proccs).

  12. #92
    I know disc is over the top, what's not certain to me though is how much.
    The issue here is SS, that we get to "snipe" the heals before the damage even happens. I'm fairly sure we might even be a bit behind if we couldn't do that.

    Only a 10 second increase in SS cooldown would mean a lot on many fights without affecting our overall effectiveness in other cases.


    Another issue with disc priests, which will force them to for example nerf rapture again at some point is that we seem to scale very well with gear atm.

  13. #93
    Paladins and Monk are entirely competitive with Discs, if anything Druids should be whining... But Monks? Whining? Come on, learn to play your class and shut up.

    ps: the OP's suggestions if applied (which will never happen of course) would simply bring down Discs even further than the first week of MoP where basically Discs didn't exist.
    Now if that's what you want OP just say it plain and simple, but please don't go all bitchy and whiny about your class not being competitive. Not knowing how to play your class competitively is an entirely different story.

    And progression guilds stacking a class that has a useful button is nothing new, just wait next tier where maybe every fight will have to be healed while running in circles and jumping over dead priests and you might be able to top the meters with your monk, you'll see.
    Last edited by kouby; 2012-12-20 at 11:57 AM.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by kouby View Post
    Paladins and Monk are entirely competitive with Discs, if anything Druids should be whining... But Monks? Whining? Come on, learn to play your class and shut up.

    ps: the OP's suggestions if applied (which will never happen of course) would simply bring down Discs even further than the first week of MoP where basically Discs didn't exist.
    Now if that's what you want OP just say it plain and simple, but please don't go all bitchy and whiny about your class not being competitive. Not knowing how to play your class competitively is an entirely different story.

    And progression guilds stacking a class that has a useful button is nothing new, just wait next tier where maybe every fight will have to be healed while running in circles and jumping over dead priests and you might be able to top the meters with your monk, you'll see.
    Would you say Heroic Garalon is the best fight for Monks? Constant AoE damage and, y'know, period crushes (every 35 seconds) so there's no certainty that SS will be active for each crush. Certainly Monks should perform well on this fight, right? Wrong: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=13845&e=14218

    Yeah, monks are certainly competitive.

    Also Grand Empress HC (post-nerf):
    wipe 1: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=18028&e=18751
    wipe 2: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=18938&e=19623

    Mistweavers are probably the second worst healer right now. Which would be fine if we had tools to save a raid. We don't. The class with the best raid CDs are also the best class for AoE healing on almost any, and I mean any, encounter.
    Last edited by HamSandwichFace; 2012-12-20 at 01:03 PM.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by HamSandwichFace View Post
    Would you say Heroic Garalon is the best fight for Monks? Constant AoE damage and, y'know, period crushes (every 35 seconds) so there's no certainty that SS will be active for each crush. Certainly Monks should perform well on this fight, right? Wrong: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=13845&e=14218

    Yeah, monks are certainly competitive.
    Ah yes, a skill on a set timer is entirely unpredictable? I'm starting to understand why you so enjoy whining...

    ps: Garalon is THE MOST PREDICTABLE FIGHT EVER. If you're still wondering why discs are beating you on it, you might want to read up on the basic functions and strong points of disc, or simply try playing one?

    pps: All first ranks on Garalon 25H are Monks on the page with only 4 discs lost in the middle. ( http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ralon/25H/hps/ )
    So maybe in your raid that is not the case, but that only goes to show that your monks are crap, not that your discs are OP.
    Again, learn to play and stop bitching.
    Last edited by kouby; 2012-12-20 at 01:12 PM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by kouby View Post
    Ah yes, a skill on a set timer is entirely unpredictable? I'm starting to understand why you so enjoy whining...
    Are you dense? Crush (on heroic) does 250k physical damage (thus mitigated by armour) so naturally with SS's 1 minute CD it can't be up (per priest at least) for every single Crush, and as far as I know the Priests aren't rotating their SS, they're just using it on CD. There's no way that 1 SS can protect an entire raid from 250k damage (let's argue 175k to be more accurate), that's never going to happen. The issue is that this on this fight, prior to the 5.1 nerf, Mistweavers could get around 150-170k hps, now, after the nerf both of us (I'm stating both Redfern and I, in 502+ ilvl, he has better gear than me though) we're barely able to break 80k hps.

    You could argue that this is farm content and because we out gear a fight all absorb effects will naturally be a significant factor in damage absorption, but with crush this is unlikely, not to mention sub 30% we generally let the AoE tick for 40-50k-60k because of how insanely well Disc Priests scale under their mastery and, more notably, spirit shell. It's a complete joke.

    Were monks fine pre-5.1? No, we were grossly overpowered, but it was "somewhat" balanced in the fact we had no raid CDs. Prior to Life Cocoon's buff (which was needed, desperately for both PvE/PvP) it was a 200k absorb which was a waste of a global in almost -all- situations and Revival was pathetically weak, it still is, as it heals (in a 25 man raid) for barely 40k per player. Whereas Priests are now performing better than the pre 5.1 Mistweaver while having the best raid CDs in the game, as well as the best mana regen mechanic in the game.

  17. #97
    Brewmaster Banzhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HamSandwichFace View Post
    Disc has the best raid CDs and best mana efficiency of any healer at the moment. It certainly does not have the lowest output of any healer when you factor in PoH. PoH alone can generate beastly numbers.

    Archangel would keep the 15% healing by the way.
    Very true..., if the people you generally heal with absolutely stink to high heaven (Which a metric ton of healers do these days)

    For some reason I can't shake the feeling, of this being another player whining about not topping his personal meter anymore given your initial opening. Compared to other healing classes, disc is very much on par.., it all depends on the person behind the screen.

    Play to the strengths of your chosen class and you'll probably find things aren't as bad as you portrait them.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Banzhe View Post
    For some reason I can't shake the feeling, of this being another player whining about not topping his personal meter anymore given your initial opening. Compared to other healing classes, disc is very much on par.., it all depends on the person behind the screen.
    So much this.
    And to the OP, stop linking your wols, your raid comp is so ridiculous it's laughable.

  19. #99
    am i the only one who hates playing the so called overpowered class? i prefer being underpowered and praised when performing well rather than all my performances being down to how OP my class is... even though i simply refuse to use spirit shell unless i absolutely have to.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by kouby View Post
    So much this.
    And to the OP, stop linking your wols, your raid comp is so ridiculous it's laughable.
    Explain please.

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