WoW being an alt focused mmo now hurts the game most.

[Crashdummy]

And you made a new account to say this OP?

I dont agree with you. Making the game a huge boring grind is not good for the game, which is why games like Lineage, EQ, UO and EVE never got even close to half the playerbase WoW has.


People wanting MMO to be huge mindless grinds are the minority, and should go play EQ2 or EVE. WoW had a better design, although with the dailies they made a step back.

[Flaks]

I'm sick of saying this but Blizzard really needs to stop setting a precedence for things then going back to "the olden days".

The game went from players only playing a single character because of the time it took to playing alts because things were so quick.
The game went from faster but more rewards back to being a ridiculous grind.

[Paladin885]

Do you remember good old times when you had only 1 character and you cared for him, loved and felt him? These were the true mmorpg times. Today things are different, leveling is so quick and easy, entry point for dungens and raids is so low, BoA items and account wide achievments. Sometimes you are even forced to have multiple alts, because of extra gold, achievments or even raiding. This pretty much ruing whole RPG part of the game. You know the letter R - Role, you should just pick one and stick to it, thats what RPGs are about. Everytime I start an RPG game, I spend a good portion of time at character creation screen. Yes I know, we always create multiple alts even in classic RPG games, but you usually finish the game wih just one, maybe two characters, leaving others with very low levels, unless you are hardcore player of course. In WoW you can have easily top level of every class in a few weeks.

*bangs head on desk*
No, you're not.

You're not obligated to do ANYTHING in WoW except pay the sub to play the game. Blizzard understands that there are many types of players and they try to help them as much as possible so that the game is more inviting to everyone. It does not mean you're forced to do it.

Alts used to take a long time, and by the time they catch up to the main there was such a gear gap it was sickening and discouraging if you wanted an alt for your guilds alt raid nights. Now, they fixed it with BoAs to help boost the leveling.

Does that force players to have to make an alt? hell no!


Ghostcrawler says it, the other devs preach it, I try to spread the word as well.... in that WoW has evolved to allow you to play an MMO the way you WANT, not the way you HAVE TOO.

The game went from faster but more rewards back to being a ridiculous grind.

never played vanilla, eh? hehe :P

Talk to vanilla players about grinding items for legendarys, the pvp grind, alliance players grinding for their wintersabre mount, etc.

[Marique77]

I don't see how being an alt focused game is ever a bad thing, it gives people more reason to login and play imo

[McTurbo]

Do you remember good old times when you had only 1 character and you cared for him, loved and felt him? These were the true mmorpg times. Today things are different, leveling is so quick and easy, entry point for dungens and raids is so low, BoA items and account wide achievments. Sometimes you are even forced to have multiple alts, because of extra gold, achievments or even raiding. This pretty much ruing whole RPG part of the game. You know the letter R - Role, you should just pick one and stick to it, thats what RPGs are about. Everytime I start an RPG game, I spend a good portion of time at character creation screen. Yes I know, we always create multiple alts even in classic RPG games, but you usually finish the game wih just one, maybe two characters, leaving others with very low levels, unless you are hardcore player of course. In WoW you can have easily top level of every class in a few weeks.

yes i remember those days.. when it took months to clear content because players were not educated on playing their classes or how to optimize what they were doing. the tools to get into raids, dungeons and battlegrounds pretty much didnt exsist. crafting was a joke.. so in all yes you focused on one toon because the game just wasnt as well known and its player base was slightly ignorant of how to proceed.. now fast forward to today and you have major websites dedicated to nearlly all aspects of the game any information you want and the tools you need are close at hand we gear up and go through content in weeks not months which leaves plays clearing raids in a day to two days at most and nothing to do the rest of the week.. hence you get alts

---------- Post added 2012-12-16 at 06:26 PM ----------

It's funny how OP talks about the R in RPG. Let's think about that for a second. Role Playing Game, originally the pen and paper D&D, which wow essentially is the same thing except all the dice rolls are made for us and the results levied in realtime with the campaign laid out by a cast of hundreds rather than a single DM.

Do you have any friggin' clue how many people have tons of different characters? Hell, character dies? New character. I've known people to play two characters IN THE SAME CAMPAIGN.

Your description of 'classic RPG' makes me think of Diablo. That kind of destroys your credibility with me even more.

the only thing that wow and PnP RPG have in common is the fantasy theme... wow is an on the rails rpg that does not give players a choice or any freedom to grow, or actually role play anywhere outside of a set of boundries that the game allows. pen and paper rpg is complete and utter freedom of choice and actions and roleplaying.. its like comparing zelda the first one as an rpg to skyrim...

[Marooned]

yeah back then game was fun enough to stick to one main, I had my lock which was my identity in server and my guild, was basicly me in WoW and did all raids with him etc, now I feel the game is boring so I play with different alts to make things more interesting maybe.

[Trassk]

I've always had my main and several main alts, that change each expansion. in TBC it was my main shaman, then my warlock and mage. In Wrath, my main alt was my deathknight. The cata it was my hunter, and now in mists its my main shaman and my monk, which atm my monk has more well geared then my shaman.

I'll always count my shaman as my main but its good to alternate characters.

[Jessani]

Do you remember good old times when you had only 1 character and you cared for him, loved and felt him?

Yes, but I was encouraged to try a new class, which I LOVED more, was better at, and stuck to it for 3 years.

Sometimes you are even forced to have multiple alts, because of extra gold, achievments or even raiding.

RAIDING: The top-end hardcore guilds figured out a long time ago that raid comp can make or break world, region, and realm first races. Having the flexibility to swap your comp around with alts greatly increased their standings. We saw more of this during Wrath and it has expanded since then. The success of maintaining an additional raid-ready alt was noticed by the masses and other guilds that weren't as capable at doing it. Some have tried to make it mandatory. Their goals weren't realistic and that has been a common flaw in guilds, their leadership, and the general player-base. Guilds and their leadership must have realistic expectations on what their current membership can handle, including their desires / requirements for alts. Everything takes time. Sure, you'll occasionally see that spontaneous guild pop out of nowhere and succeed, but in general, the guilds that have lasted the longest tend to find the most success (if you've monitored various realms over 4-6 years, you'll notice some guilds that were always 5th-10th have gradually worked their way up to 1st-3rd). Also, those guilds that spontaneously spawn often quickly disappear simply because the shared goal wasn't met or a very select few in that guild decide its not good enough (in my experience, that select few often fail continuously and shift blame to others).

GOLD: Obviously having multiple alts will always be an advantage because you don't have to depend on others to supply materials or complete tasks when you can do them yourself. Once you have a high enough gold flow coming through, you can often shift your operations from supplying raw materials to the sale of crafted goods by outsourcing your farming to others. In economics, self-sufficient businesses often do the best, then move towards outsourcing services to others to reduce their overhead. In WoW, the average player is hampered by one key thing ... time. Regardless of the caps Blizzard puts in, players will always push until they run out of time. Its where the player uses their time that determines their success with acquiring capital (gold). A single-toon player can be more successful than an altoholic if they invest their time more efficiently. Altoholics tend to make the mistake of investing more into a single purpose than single-toon players because they diversify their portfolios better. Altoholics will often approach their alt with the mindset, "This alt does x for my other toon, so they can make more of y". If the demand drops on the item, then the time spent on the alt is wasted because the time was spent creating supply that is no longer needed. A successful altoholic will ALWAYS have the advantage if they know how to properly diversify their operations simply because of the limitation on how many main professions a single-toon can have.

ACHIEVEMENTS: No one is holding a gun to your head or threatening your life to have alts. It is a choice a player makes to have multiple alts. Blizzard recently added ACCOUNT-WIDE achievements for those players that diversify their game play. People who often shoot for the account-wide achievements, such as leveling every profession and class to max-level will lack in other areas ... again due to time. If a player is constantly raiding, then they can't spend that time farming, exploring, and questing. Obviously skill level and help from others will ultimately determine a person's success, so if you're surrounded by 'noobs' who will wipe your raid, you'll spend more time getting the raiding achievements instead of working on the others. If you have a solid team around you, not only do you not have to solo content, but you spend less time working for the same achievements as the average player.

This pretty much ruing whole RPG part of the game. You know the letter R - Role, you should just pick one and stick to it, thats what RPGs are about.

If we all listened to that advice, we'd have the same problem as we did before ... a shortage of tanks and (to a much lesser extent) healers. The highest rate of burnout was from tanking class/specs. When given the choice, those that would be tanks and healers often selected DPS ... and still do ... simply because its easier and quicker to complete the average task as a DPS. Only when tanking and healing became instant queues for dungeons and dual specs were introduced did it really start to level out. Healing shortages have dropped off because less healers have been needed on end-content bosses, the introduction of dual specs, and changes to spirit/hit for 3 classes. Tanks will remain a problem, but its more due to (in my opinion) the treatment from others and demands of tanking new instances (you can't carry a tank unless the healer makes up for it).

Everytime I start an RPG game, I spend a good portion of time at character creation screen. Yes I know, we always create multiple alts even in classic RPG games, but you usually finish the game wih just one, maybe two characters, leaving others with very low levels, unless you are hardcore player of course. In WoW you can have easily top level of every class in a few weeks.

I also spend quite a bit of time creating each new character. I generally only play 15-20 hours a week, but I have 7 characters 80+ (about to have 5 90's). I would not consider myself hardcore, but use my time and resources efficiently (ie. Leveling toons only while rested and constantly swapping between them, based on my mood). I'm not entirely sure of the point you were trying to make here, but I've done this for years and the game has not lost any excitement for me (other than the initial, "WOW, ITS NEW!" factor). I think you're just putting too much emphasis on end-gaming and I would encourage you to take a step back and do what you did when you started ... just have fun.

[Deleted]

I was always about exploring what other classes are about, my first alt, troll hunter, dates back to 2006.

[Benggaul]

Do you remember good old times when you had only 1 character and you cared for him, loved and felt him? These were the true mmorpg times. Today things are different, leveling is so quick and easy, entry point for dungens and raids is so low, BoA items and account wide achievments. Sometimes you are even forced to have multiple alts, because of extra gold, achievments or even raiding. This pretty much ruing whole RPG part of the game. You know the letter R - Role, you should just pick one and stick to it, thats what RPGs are about. Everytime I start an RPG game, I spend a good portion of time at character creation screen. Yes I know, we always create multiple alts even in classic RPG games, but you usually finish the game wih just one, maybe two characters, leaving others with very low levels, unless you are hardcore player of course. In WoW you can have easily top level of every class in a few weeks.

Nope, I've had alts since my first days of Everquest and that's continued through every MMO I've played, including the many years I've invested in WoW. This expansion, as has already been mentioned numerous times, is quite possibly the least "alt friendly" of all, though I still do not find it arduous to play alts now.

There has also NEVER been any rule that said you had to "pick one role and stick with it forever" in WoW. Contrary to what you've posted, you are not forced to roll multiple characters if you do not want to. Extra gold? Optional, and rolling alts is not the only way to obtain it. Achievements? Optional and largely useless. Raiding? Optional. Sometimes you can help your guild along by having a healing/tanking alt if they're lacking, but again that is far from the only solution.

Bottom line: You should only speak for yourself, and even then you should make sure you know what you're talking about first.

[deplorable]

*bangs head on desk*






never played vanilla, eh? hehe :P

Talk to vanilla players about grinding items for legendarys, the pvp grind, alliance players grinding for their wintersabre mount, etc.

All you have to ask the vanilla guys, is "did you enjoy getting your epic mount" (they were damn expensive... the riding cost was cheap, each mount... oooh yeah), and how many got the sarge rank just for that extra 10% discount

man was that damn mount expensive... won't even go into the paladin and warlock ingredients and begging needed to get their mounts.

[Deleted]

I must admit from 2005 until 2008 I only played one character and these were the best years of my wow life by far, so I would tend to agree with you.

Playing an alt or two is fun though!

[Caelia]

All you have to ask the vanilla guys, is "did you enjoy getting your epic mount" (they were damn expensive... the riding cost was cheap, each mount... oooh yeah), and how many got the sarge rank just for that extra 10% discount

man was that damn mount expensive... won't even go into the paladin and warlock ingredients and begging needed to get their mounts.

Training was 100g and the mount was 900g (after faction bonuses) if memory serves me correctly, wasn't to hard to get.
Sure it wasn't as easy as today were you can make tens of thousands in less than an hour but it certainly wasn't as hard as many seem to think.

[Dark_Spirit]

With all these forced (cuz without the reps you cant spend your valor) daily farms, MOP is not really an alt friendly expack.

[anaxie]

With all these forced (cuz without the reps you cant spend your valor) daily farms, MOP is not really an alt friendly expack.

How dare blizzard make people have to raid for the best reward. And if they can't raid then they get to grind all day and night for valor items. If they raid they can just use valor to upgrade it dailys not needed.

I'd say the game is fine especially with the insane amount of loot dropped per boss kill unlike pre cata where bosses dropped 1-2 items.

I would say the game is working as intended 10man players struggling to clear all normals get plenty of dailys to grind to fill the gaps in gear.
Most people doing top 100 heroic raiding are almost done gearing to BIS for the first tier with 4 months to spare.

I must say though that first month of dallies compared to the expansions 18 month lifespan was just so terrible. Not like each faction didn't reward you with completely unique mounts or anything.

[HardCoder]

I don't find WoW very interesting on a single character. Most "single character" players have gone on to more or less max out achievement points are on pallies and or DKs.

My first character was a rogue, and that got old really quickly. My second, a priest. I usually play her the most these days.

But ultimately I had 8 level 85s at the end of Cataclysm, and will probably have 10 or 11 level 90s by sometime in 2013. I think the different playstyles are fun. I don't like the grindiness in MoP, though, at all. If I can't enjoy playing one of my alts then most days I probably won't play, which if why (along with work) I have played about 2 hours a month the past two months compared with 100+ hours a month during much of Cata.

[PetersenIII]

Do you remember good old times when you had only 1 character and you cared for him, loved and felt him? These were the true mmorpg times. Today things are different, leveling is so quick and easy, entry point for dungens and raids is so low, BoA items and account wide achievments. Sometimes you are even forced to have multiple alts, because of extra gold, achievments or even raiding. This pretty much ruing whole RPG part of the game. You know the letter R - Role, you should just pick one and stick to it, thats what RPGs are about. Everytime I start an RPG game, I spend a good portion of time at character creation screen. Yes I know, we always create multiple alts even in classic RPG games, but you usually finish the game wih just one, maybe two characters, leaving others with very low levels, unless you are hardcore player of course. In WoW you can have easily top level of every class in a few weeks.

I have a main whom I love the most. I also have an alt of each class. Having alts does not diminish my sentimental attachment to the character I consider my main.

If anything, the ease of having alts should *increase* the quality of the game, because more people should have more general knowledge about how classes work so they can better work with those classes. Playing as multiple roles gives you insight into what makes the game harder or easier and what can be done to make sure everyone has an easier time of completing the encounter.

[Deleted]

Its VERY obvious why Blizzard moved the game down the road to every player 'needing' more alts.

And thats to force players to spend more time in Wow.

The early days were all about only needing 1 character to play Wow, in these days it was insane to even consider to level more than one character simply because the colossal amount of time that it took to level one up! lol

As Wow developed over time the 'clever' devs in Wow quicklly realised that one way of keeping their playerbase was to give them more things to do, and one of those things they saw clear as day was the playing alts. So they have continued to expand the game towards rewarding alt play.

Obviously a large part of the playerbase enjoy this game focus, but those who enjoy playing just one character have been let down. Too many times in the Wow journey certain classes have been screwed up and if u play just one class then u have a rather rotten period of time to live through now and then when your class is screwed. Basically there is not one single perk or bonus for only having one well loved character :*(

As i said, alts are a way of keeping players in the game... nothing more, nothing less. A business decision.

NOTE: i have only ever played Rogue and i quit before the end of Cataclysm and havent come back, by the look of the ROgue forums its just as well cos my game experience would be hell in MoP, and i have ZERO interest in levelling another character.

[Idoru]

Do you remember good old times when you had only 1 character and you cared for him, loved and felt him?

I still play the same character I created 8 years ago. It is the only one I have ever played "The End-Game" with.
Sure, I have alts. But they are just that. Alts.

Games are what you make them. I don't let others make my games.

[PetersenIII]

The early days were all about only needing 1 character to play Wow, in these days it was insane to even consider to level more than one character simply because the colossal amount of time that it took to level one up! lol

No, not really no. Like. At all.