Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Charge me Doctor]

after all the talk about knifes vs. guns i do wonder why they even invented guns, if killing with a knife is not only equal easy but even easier

stupid people from the past

You can't dodge bullets. That's why they were invented.

You need much more agility and strength to kill someone using a knife than a gun. Implying that you are not trying to shoot someone running in zigzags in a field full of covers from 300 meters range with a handgun, accomplishing this will be kinda hard.
If you compare stabbing someone in the back to shooting someone who shoots you back, well, you are kinda stupid then. Because if you can approach someone from the back to stab him you can shoot this person in the back of the head from point blank range too.

Again, i gate when people talk about knife fights and all i hear is "stab", main purpose of knife in a fight is to slice you opponent, you slice his arms, eyes, face, w.e. is not covered with clothes so he won't be able to fight you back and probably will die from loss of blood/infection if he will not get medical assistance. It requires much more effort, strength, experience and agility than aiming and pulling a trigger.

[Cthulhu 2020]

He knows. He's just thinks he's being funny.

It's what's called a dodge. Dodging answering the question. Sadly some believe the answer is more guns. Sadly.

[Charge me Doctor]

Yeah... ... ... ... ...like the victim being unarmed, which is what I was saying. I'm not arguing guns vs. knives, I'm merely agreeing that either one is effective enough against a single unarmed target.

Most of the capability differences are unimportant in that scenario, which is honestly most murder scenarios. If the person is adept at defending themselves (IE, a navy seal), or if they are defending themselves with some sort of weapon, then the rules change and factors would definitely favor a gun.

If a person threat you with a knife, you still have a chance to fight him back or run away. If it's a gun instead of knife, you have really shitty chance to run away, fighting back is not an option because at 2 meters range it's kinda hard to miss.

My point still stands, it's harder to defend against someone with a gun and it's easier to kill people using guns, that's why guns was made.

How much chances unarmed and inexperienced (in shooting/knife fighting) person has against equally inexperienced person with gun/knife? Everyone can fight and/or run, but you can't fight someone who points a gun towards you, because if you move you will have another hole in your body

[slvlol]

If a person threat you with a knife, you still have a chance to fight him back or run away. If it's a gun instead of knife, you have really shitty chance to run away, fighting back is not an option because at 2 meters range it's kinda hard to miss.

My point still stands, it's harder to defend against someone with a gun and it's easier to kill people using guns, that's why guns was made.

How much chances unarmed and inexperienced (in shooting/knife fighting) person has against equally inexperienced person with gun/knife? Everyone can fight and/or run, but you can't fight someone who points a gun towards you, because if you move you will have another hole in your body

Speaking from experience with multiple self-defense instructors and a number of friends/family who are Law Enforcement (Police/DEA) and Special Forces, they much more scared about fighting someone with a knife than with a gun. Mainly they speak about how much more reliable it is to disarm a person with a gun than with a knife.

With a gun you either need to re-direct the barrel or stop the slide/cylinder from moving. To do this you can grab the gun with one of your hands or even simply just their arm. If faced with a knife you're only option is to grab the arms. Most seem to think to get killed by a knife you need a typical video game style stabbing, but in reality even a cut to the lower portion of the arm can catch a key artery/vein and have you bleed out very quickly.

Around 21 feet (6.4 meters) is the distance that an individual with a knife can cover and be on top of you before you get your firearm out of it's holster.

I'm not arguing about the effectiveness of guns. They're very efficient at taking lives especially at distance, but the myth that a gun is always more dangerous than a knife is just that... a myth.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I had a good laugh when a certain someone tried to argue that knives are more deadly than guns...

A knife is more deadly than a gun...

If you're already within 5 feet of the person...
And if the knife is already in your hand...
And their gun is in their holster...
And you have the element of surprise...
And they're not trained to disarm you.

:P

[Tinykong]

I had a good laugh when a certain someone tried to argue that knives are more deadly than guns...

A knife is more deadly than a gun...

If you're already within 5 feet of the person...
And if the knife is already in your hand...
And their gun is in their holster...
And you have the element of surprise...
And they're not trained to disarm you.

:P

So basically, pretty much every premeditated and domestic situation you can come up with.

[Rukentuts]

I had a good laugh when a certain someone tried to argue that knives are more deadly than guns...

A knife is more deadly than a gun...

If you're already within 5 feet of the person...
And if the knife is already in your hand...
And their gun is in their holster...
And you have the element of surprise...
And they're not trained to disarm you.

:P

And you know exactly where to aim. Not like they're gonna sit still and let you proceed once they know what's up. This is how so many survive knife attacks.

[Cthulhu 2020]

The way the lethality of a knife was up played earlier in this thread, you'd think these people would just prefer a knife to defend their homes. The way they were making it sound, a knife was the ultimate killing tool. Then they go on to say they need a gun to defend their home. Go figure.

[PhaelixWW]

This is how so many survive knife attacks.

Feel free to find a source for this, specifically for knife assaults, not including accidental knife cuts and not limited to only hospital admissions (by which time any risk of bleeding out has already pretty much come and gone).

The way the lethality of a knife was up played earlier in this thread, you'd think these people would just prefer a knife to defend their homes. The way they were making it sound, a knife was the ultimate killing tool. Then they go on to say they need a gun to defend their home. Go figure.

There's a big difference between attacking with a knife and defending with a knife. Defenders are less likely to be as mentally committed to going all out with a weapon, regardless of the weapon type.

Plus, I'm sure a lot of thugs would downplay a knife's ability to hurt them, anyway. So the intimidation factor of a firearm for defense vs. a knife for defense makes a tangible difference.

[Kellhound]

Both knives and firearms have strengths and weaknesses depending on the situation, for both offense and defense.

[obdigore]

Both knives and firearms have strengths and weaknesses depending on the situation, for both offense and defense.

So what you are saying is that this is the most powerful weapon in the world, with no downsides, and everyone should be required to have one?

[Kellhound]

So what you are saying is that this is the most powerful weapon in the world, with no downsides, and everyone should be required to have one?

It would be horrible for CQB.

[obdigore]

It would be horrible for CQB.

Just get like nine of em. I'm sure you could get a model that starts the chainsaw when it detects fingerprints on the grip, allowing you to just aim and fire.

I can't imagine anyone breaking into a house and not fleeing when you start shooting chainsaws at them.

[Jaxi]

So what you are saying is that this is the most powerful weapon in the world, with no downsides, and everyone should be required to have one?

Jesus. Someone deliver this to Bruce Campbell when the Zombie apocalypse starts. He will be unstoppable.

[Kalyyn]

False assertion that guns are a check against government.

"By calling attention to a well-regulated militia for the security of the Nation, and the right of each citizen to keep and bear arms, our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fear of governmental tyranny, which gave rise to the 2nd amendment, will ever be a major danger to our Nation, the amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic military-civilian relationship, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason I believe the 2nd Amendment will always be important."

You know who said that? That was President John F. Kennedy. Now I realize that you may or may not give 2 shits about what Kennedy thought. He was, at the end of the day, just another politician. But it's something to think about.

On an unrelated note, I'm currently looking into the possibility of building a Metral gun. I have most of the needed tools, and the ability to access those I don't, so it might be a worthwhile project. Here's the instruction pdf if anyone else is interested.

http://www.roderuscustom.tzo.com/cgi...Gun_Part_1.pdf

Fair warning, it might be illegal to make your own firearms in some of your countries. And even if you're in the US, somebody at the NSA might get butthurt over you clicking that link.

[Mayhem]

I'm pretty sure he never said that firearms couldn't sometimes be used as weapons, merely that those cases are exceedingly rare for civilian-owned fireams.

And in the context of the text he was responding to, "weapon" was an appropriate term, since it only was dealing with firearms being used to harm people.

i don´t know what you´re sure of has todo with his switching between the use of weapon and firearm when it suits his point best...

otherwise his sentence would´ve been "i agree, it´s much harder to kill yourself or someone else if you don´t have a firearm" but that obviously would be against his view even if the source he quoted was only talking about firearms, yeah lets just ignore that

- - - Updated - - -

There's a big difference between attacking with a knife and defending with a knife. Defenders are less likely to be as mentally committed to going all out with a weapon, regardless of the weapon type.

Plus, I'm sure a lot of thugs would downplay a knife's ability to hurt them, anyway. So the intimidation factor of a firearm for defense vs. a knife for defense makes a tangible difference.

so you´re agreeing that firearms give an advantage? wow it took us a while to get there

[Kalyyn]

so you´re agreeing that firearms give an advantage? wow it took us a while to get there

Contesting this!

It depends on the location of combat. If we're in a small area where you don't have room to maneuver (most residential settings, for example), I'm going to have 13 inches of steel in you before you even draw your sidearm.

[obdigore]

Contesting this!

It depends on the location of combat. If we're in a small area where you don't have room to maneuver (most residential settings, for example), I'm going to have 13 inches of steel in you before you even draw your sidearm.

Don't you have to draw your steel? Or is this some kind of fantastical universe where guns < knives because people with knives are Rambo in the bushes of an apartment and people with guns are drunken with slow reflexes?

[Mayhem]

Contesting this!

It depends on the location of combat. If we're in a small area where you don't have room to maneuver (most residential settings, for example), I'm going to have 13 inches of steel in you before you even draw your sidearm.

so you draw a knife and close the distance faster than me drawing my gun and pulling the trigger? or are you already charging at me out of surprise, because with a surprise attack the weapon is rather meaningless (again depends on the level of surprise), we already covered that

[Kalyyn]

so you draw a knife and close the distance faster than me drawing my gun and pulling the trigger? or are you already charging at me out of surprise, because with a surprise attack the weapon is rather meaningless (again depends on the level of surprise), we already covered that

Surprise or not. Have you had much firearm training? Now I've been through Air Force basic training (its not the Marines, but they still want you to know how to kill things) and they told us repeatedly, you don't bring a knife to a gunfight, but you also don't bring a gun to a knife fight. The 21 foot rule is a very real thing, and they drilled that into us quite a bit. More importantly for security reasons, it's harder to disarm someone holding a knife than it is to disarm someone holding a gun. A gun only has two things you have to worry about: Their finger in relation to the trigger, and the barrel in relation to you. When you're trying to disarm someone wielding a knife, they're gonna start flailing around the second you lay hands on them, and you've got that entire blade to worry about. And that's pretty scary. They can only shoot a gun in a straight line from wherever they're pointing it. The killing area of that knife, however, is literally anywhere their arm can reach. They're going to be slashing and jabbing, and you've got a solid chance of getting ripped to shreds.