Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[NYC17]

Did you actually post a 50 year trend about firearm violence that needed to be refuted? I didn't think so.

I've proved my claim, and yet again, you've resorted to snark instead of substance.

It's right there in your own source. It went up in the 70's, 80's etc...

You can't really be this thick.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Here's what I don't get about the opposition.

Let's say you're right (and I don't think you are, but we're in the land of make-believe for now so why not). Let's say that even with all our guns we could never stand up to a rogue and oppressive US government.

Just who the hell do you think you are to tell us we're not allowed to even try?

It's not the amount of guns that matters.

It's the amount of people willing to stick their neck out. And even then, those who would stick their neck out wouldn't be very organized.

People talk a tough, game, especially on the internet. A poll might say that 1 million people would join an armed rebellion, but how many of those 1 million would grab their gun and survival gear and give up their day job to go fight the US government?

It's really easy to hit "Yes" on a poll. Not so easy to go shoot at army platoons. Likelihood of a successful rebellion these days? Close to nil. At best, they'd set about some hollow policy change that wouldn't really do anything, but would quell those who felt oppressed.


And before anyone brings up the revolution, only a tiny percent of the colonialists actually participated in the revolution. Britain was already tied up in a war with France, it was weeks for them to send fresh troops over from England, France was providing naval support and supplies to the colonialists and just in general doing everything they could to piss on the English every chance they got. In the information age, an armed rebellion would end as soon as they were labeled domestic terrorists on the morning news.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Here's what I don't get about the opposition.

Let's say you're right (and I don't think you are, but we're in the land of make-believe for now so why not). Let's say that even with all our guns we could never stand up to a rogue and oppressive US government.

Just who the hell do you think you are to tell us we're not allowed to even try?

Hypotheticals. Nice in theory but horrible in presentation. Next

[Rukentuts]

If you try, and fail, everyone pays the price.

The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with armed revolution. If it got to the point of say, Syria, it wouldn't matter anyway.

But it's far better to even take Egypt's route than Syria's.

[Tinykong]

It's right there in your own source. It went up in the 70's, 80's etc...

You can't really be this thick.

Do you know what a trend is?

It's not "Oh, look, part of the graph is going up, therefore the trend is up." I love when someone puts their foot in their mouth while being snarky.

[Laize]

The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with armed revolution. If it got to the point of say, Syria, it wouldn't matter anyway.

But it's far better to even take Egypt's route than Syria's.

You mean live under 2 different tyrannical regimes going for the hat trick?

[Rukentuts]

You mean live under 2 different tyrannical regimes going for the hat trick?

Throwing out regimes (relatively) peacefully. Establishing a new government afterwards is another matter.

And honestly, it's not like we'd magically be above that either.

[Tinykong]

The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with armed revolution. If it got to the point of say, Syria, it wouldn't matter anyway.

But it's far better to even take Egypt's route than Syria's.

It may have been intended as such at one point, but with how efficient our military is at killing and warfare, I'd say even if that was the intention, it's no longer applicable.

Red Dawn isn't reality. /shrug

[Rukentuts]

It may have been intended as such at one point, but with how efficient our military is at killing and warfare, I'd say even if that was the intention, it's no longer applicable.

Red Dawn isn't reality. /shrug

It may have been that intention when everyone had muzzleloaders, but when the USAF has F22s and you have a cropduster, it's not exactly holding it up.

The moment arms disparity appeared this purpose ceased to exist.

[NYC17]

Do you know what a trend is?

It's not "Oh, look, part of the graph is going up, therefore the trend is up." I love when someone puts their foot in their mouth while being snarky.

The trend, according to your own source, is that gun violence increased for decades, before decreasing, and the decrease eventually leveled off. There's still an increase. THAT's the trend over that time period. The other trend would be that for 20 years, gun homicide rates went down. That's THAT trend.

I love that you have no self awareness whatsoever. It's fun...and continues your 8 month trend.

[lockedout]

For motives that were not self-preservation on part of the US Government. Comparing domestic terrorism to Vietcong is silly.

Do you think if it came to that all military would be compliant?

[Laize]

Throwing out regimes (relatively) peacefully. Establishing a new government afterwards is another matter.

And honestly, it's not like we'd magically be above that either.

People in the Ukraine seem to be doing pretty good against their government right now.

[Delekii]

Do you know what a trend is?

It's not "Oh, look, part of the graph is going up, therefore the trend is up." I love when someone puts their foot in their mouth while being snarky.

Did you actually read the article you posted, or did you just look at the pretty pictures?

It goes into a fair bit of detail as to reasons why the changes may have occurred as they have. In large parts, it points to a massive world-wide drop in overall crime rates at various points, and makes hypotheses as to why this drop occurred.

Given one of the main arguments of the pro-gun constituents is "it would just leave guns in the hands of the real criminals", you'd think there would be some interest in the fact that overall crime rates have dropped at a rate equally as fast or faster than gun-specific crime has. Just maybe.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

People in the Ukraine seem to be doing pretty good against their government right now.

The US government aint the UKraine government.

[Tinykong]

The trend, according to your own source, is that gun violence increased for decades, before decreasing, and the decrease eventually leveled off. There's still an increase. THAT's the trend over that time period. The other trend would be that for 20 years, gun homicide rates went down. That's THAT trend.

I love that you have no self awareness whatsoever. It's fun...and continues your 8 month trend.

The Pew Research source is not about firearm violence over 50 years. It refers to firearm homicides over 50 years, which is relatively the same or less.

You've provided no source or credible information to prove that any rate of violence is higher today than 50 years ago. That was your original unsubstantiated claim:

I dunno, it's almost like things change in 50+ years...

For the worse...like gun violence.

All the trends are down over 20 years. Firearm homicide is down or the same over 50 years.

Unless you can provide some credible data to back up your nonsense, it's going to stand as unsubstantiated ignorance.

[Mayhem]

i´d like to point out that homicide rates in general went down, not only firearm related... so we have to look at violence at a whole, did gun related violence went up or down?

homicide rates going down could very well mean that people just recieve help faster than prior, no?

[Laize]

The US government aint the UKraine government.

Oh okay. So EVERY country in the world could successfully overthrow their government EXCEPT the Americans? That's the dumbshittiest thing I've ever heard.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Oh okay. So EVERY country in the world could successfully overthrow their government EXCEPT the Americans? That's the dumbshittiest thing I've ever heard.

I didn't say that. Fel I didn't even hint that.

[Tinykong]

i´d like to point out that homicide rates in general went down, not only firearm related... so we have to look at violence at a whole, did gun related violence went up or down?

homicide rates going down could very well mean that people just recieve help faster than prior, no?

Overall violence is down, firearm or otherwise.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...b40_story.html

[Laize]

I didn't say that. Fel I didn't even hint that.

So we can point out all these countries revolting against their oppressive governments and you AREN'T just saying "But X isn't the US government!" in an attempt to somehow prove your point?