View Poll Results: Do you Support Assault Weapons Ban?

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  • Yes

    2,489 60.47%
  • No

    1,627 39.53%
  1. #25141
    This is a perfect example of how failing to read other posts can at times turn into embarassing moments.
    And this is a perfect example of trying to make someone's post seem illegitimate by using hyperbole or bullshit. Why don't you respond with a fact based argument supported by evidence instead of saying 'you should be embarrassed?'

  2. #25142
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    You are switching the discussion from "society" to "individual". A child does that as he doesn't understand the faulty process behind it. A child usually is forgiven. You aren't.
    Will expand this below.
    but... It's YOURSELF that came up with these "socioeconomical" factors... So are you telling us your theory is not valid? There aren't other socioeconomical factors that affect gun homicide ratio?
    You sure that is what you are telling us?

    Ah, this must be something on the lines of correlation doesn't mean causation.
    The country that has more gun per capita, has also more gun homicide. Nevermind though. It's a coincidence.

    Aaaand here you just topped it up my friend.
    From an individual point of view, it's your choice to be scared of not. From a societal point of view IT'S YOUR DUTY to be alarmed when in a situation as surreal as the one we're discussing now.
    Your numbers don't match. You shouldn't be up there, you should be like Canada, Australia. You aren't. You're up there past algeria and egypt. And this is NOT normal.
    Fear in this case is ABSOLUTELY rational and not only that, it's also the responsible reaction to be had.
    You have created this "society" versus "individual" red herring. The risk is the same. Fearing something that has a 0.009% risk is irrational. You are more likely to die falling down the stairs, or in an automobile accident. Do you have fears of those things, as well?

    I pointed out that there are many factors other than "gun control" that are responsible for overall firearm related violence and homicides. Comparing two countries per capita rates and saying "Gun control works!" is intellectually dishonest. You have to account for all the other possible causes if you want to establish a casual relationship. I'm not going to do it for you, if you want to make those claims, you create the basis for the argument. I pointed out a couple just to illustrate that such things exist, and that they contribute to higher rates.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    What exactly does quoting these bullet points seek to prove?

    Higher firearm ownership does not correlate to higher levels of violence. Remember, a firearm homicide is not always firearm violence.

  3. #25143
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    And this is a perfect example of trying to make someone's post seem illegitimate by using hyperbole or bullshit. Why don't you respond with a fact based argument supported by evidence instead of saying 'you should be embarrassed?'
    Five posts or so behind h8papa came up with a detailed post on why weapons in Mexico are mainly from the USA.
    Djalil is russian,-he probably is Russian.-I'm convinced he's a mulsim-You are still a nazi sympathizer-Why are you pretenfing to be a European?-You and the other Hamas members.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vilendor View Post
    you are a muslim propagandist, terrorist supporter, liberalfascist far left-winger nutjob.
    Quote Originally Posted by Holas View Post
    My guess is that Djalil is an actual pedo or have pedo thoughts or really molested a child in the past

  4. #25144
    As soon as the American society realizes guns are as harmless as a knife, pencil, bat, sword, hammer, screwdriver while not in the hands of a moron.......this ridiculous topic will continue to be discussed based on fictitious, hyperbole arguments like calling something an "assault rifle" based solely on how it looks and not the functionality.

  5. #25145
    Quote Originally Posted by badzerath View Post
    As soon as the American society realizes guns are as harmless as a knife, pencil, bat, sword, hammer, screwdriver while not in the hands of a moron.......this ridiculous topic will continue to be discussed based on fictitious, hyperbole arguments like calling something an "assault rifle" based solely on how it looks and not the functionality.
    I agree but it's assault weapon an assault rifle is an actual thing.
    https://i.redditmedia.com/P8UE8DAGeB...c1ef120404fdbd
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    This term isn't far off, though it would need the word "scientific" in front of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    Accessibility, ownership, availability; these are all essentially the same thing.

  6. #25146
    Five posts or so behind h8papa came up with a detailed post on why weapons in Mexico are mainly from the USA.
    I might be missing something (feel free to point it out), but I was responding to someone making the claim that gun violence in Mexico is evidence that gun availability in neighboring countries makes policies ineffective.

    To which I countered by pointing out the assumption he's making by stating that.

    Then you came along to say 'hurhur, you should be embarrassed' instead of actually saying anything of substance to counter my statement.

    I've looked at HBpapa's posts, and he's not talking about all guns in Mexico, just the ones confiscated in gang related activity. Of which, only about 10-15% are US military issued weapons.

    He also points out that 'US military issue' does not equate to 'obtained in the US.' If our country sells another country guns, and those guns end up being stolen by/sold to criminals, that is not the same as someone coming to the US to buy a gun to take back to Mexico.

    It's quite the opposite, in fact.

    So this notion that Mexico gets most of their guns from the US is not only incorrect, it's entirely fictional.

  7. #25147
    The Insane Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    What exactly does quoting these bullet points seek to prove?

    Higher firearm ownership does not correlate to higher levels of violence. Remember, a firearm homicide is not always firearm violence.
    point 3? uhm

    and how can homicide be non violent? i uhm homicide = killing, no?
    Last edited by Mayhem; 2014-01-27 at 09:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before.

    A bunch of times actually.

  8. #25148
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    point 3? uhm
    Which is refuted by Vermont and Switzerland.

  9. #25149
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    You have created this "society" versus "individual" red herring. The risk is the same. Fearing something that has a 0.009% risk is irrational. You are more likely to die falling down the stairs, or in an automobile accident. Do you have fears of those things, as well?
    red herring my ass. How many people die each year in the USA compared to any other developed country? Yes THAT'S the issue society should be focused on.
    What a ridicolous point. What are the chances of you crashing the car for drink driving? Does that mean that shouldn't be an issue if lets say my country had an hypothetical stratospherical number of drink driving deaths compared to other developed countries? Because still it's only a small %?

    I pointed out that there are many factors other than "gun control" that are responsible for overall firearm related violence and homicides.
    and I've been asking you which ones. Question you keep dodging like the fucking matrix.
    Comparing two countries per capita rates and saying "Gun control works!" is intellectually dishonest.
    you're right. It's much more honest to talk about some random factors you have been called to specify many times and never answered. thats intellectual honesty for tinykong!
    You have to account for all the other possible causes if you want to establish a casual relationship. I'm not going to do it for you
    no, you're not, we can clearly see that.
    No problem, I can do it for you. What factors do you think affect these absolutely ridiculous numbers? Economy? Social and economical divisions? Ethnic differences and tensions perhaps? Lack of proper education? of social support? what is it that makes the usa socioeconomically unique?
    if you want to make those claims, you create the basis for the argument. I pointed out a couple just to illustrate that such things exist, and that they contribute to higher rates.
    they contribute. That's true. You know what else contribute? Having an absolutely unregulated system where you can buy unchecked, where the CORPORATIONS behind the guns industry have created such a cultural background between the masses to back them up that they sell fucking guns for KIDS in PINK and people fucking BUY them, having a gun per capita DOUBLE the one of Switzerland, the closest developed nation to follow after YEMEN.
    This also contribute. Massively. Not admitting it REALLY is intellectual dishonesty.
    Higher firearm ownership does not correlate to higher levels of violence. Remember, a firearm homicide is not always firearm violence.
    Not with violence. thats silly. nice juggling though. you tried.
    It may correlate to higher firearm homicides though.
    And this you have to explain cause its cryptic.
    "A firearm homicide is not always firearm violence"?!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Which is refuted by Vermont and Switzerland.
    Switzerland has half the guns per capita you have and MUCH better education about it. What was your point again?
    Djalil is russian,-he probably is Russian.-I'm convinced he's a mulsim-You are still a nazi sympathizer-Why are you pretenfing to be a European?-You and the other Hamas members.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vilendor View Post
    you are a muslim propagandist, terrorist supporter, liberalfascist far left-winger nutjob.
    Quote Originally Posted by Holas View Post
    My guess is that Djalil is an actual pedo or have pedo thoughts or really molested a child in the past

  10. #25150
    Legendary! PRE 9-11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Switzerland has half the guns per capita you have and MUCH better education about it. What was your point again?
    And much tighter firearm regulation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    educate your self

  11. #25151
    The Undying Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Hyperbole

    Dear Hyberbole users.


    Hyperbole (/haɪˈpɜrbəliː/ hy-pur-bə-lee;[1] Greek: ὑπερβολή hyperbolē, "exaggeration") is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally.




    Please stop. Pro-Gun and Anti-Gun. Thank you and godspeed to us all.
    #TeamLegion

    Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron

  12. #25152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Which is refuted by Vermont and Switzerland.
    this study is refuted? what?

    switzerland has less homicides probably because the main reason they have that high of gun ownership is because they are required by military and therefor are trained to handle, still they have a significant higher suicide rate and out of the developed nations switzerland ranks top 4 in homicide rate... yeah, thats a refute

    so that leaves us with vermont, vermont refutes everything
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before.

    A bunch of times actually.

  13. #25153
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    red herring my ass. How many people die each year in the USA compared to any other developed country? Yes THAT'S the issue society should be focused on.
    What a ridicolous point. What are the chances of you crashing the car for drink driving? Does that mean that shouldn't be an issue if lets say my country had an hypothetical stratospherical number of drink driving deaths compared to other developed countries? Because still it's only a small %?
    Do you actually have an argument to present?

    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    and I've been asking you which ones. Question you keep dodging like the fucking matrix.
    you're right. It's much more honest to talk about some random factors you have been called to specify many times and never answered. thats intellectual honesty for tinykong! no, you're not, we can clearly see that.
    As I've said already, I don't know what they are and have no interest in formulating a list for you. You're making the correlation, you build it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    No problem, I can do it for you. What factors do you think affect these absolutely ridiculous numbers? Economy? Social and economical divisions? Ethnic differences and tensions perhaps? Lack of proper education? of social support? what is it that makes the usa socioeconomically unique? they contribute. That's true. You know what else contribute? Having an absolutely unregulated system where you can buy unchecked, where the CORPORATIONS behind the guns industry have created such a cultural background between the masses to back them up that they sell fucking guns for KIDS in PINK and people fucking BUY them, having a gun per capita DOUBLE the one of Switzerland, the closest developed nation to follow after YEMEN.
    This also contribute. Massively. Not admitting it REALLY is intellectual dishonesty.
    I stopped reading when you put on your tin foil hat and started spouting conspiracy theories.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Not with violence. thats silly. nice juggling though. you tried.
    It may correlate to higher firearm homicides though.
    And this you have to explain cause its cryptic.
    "A firearm homicide is not always firearm violence"?!
    There is no juggling here, just your inability to understand the difference between firearm violence and a firearm homicide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Switzerland has half the guns per capita you have and MUCH better education about it. What was your point again?
    That there is no causal relationship established between higher gun ownership rates per capita and higher firearm violence/crime.
    Last edited by Tinykong; 2014-01-27 at 09:34 PM.

  14. #25154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    this study is refuted? what?

    switzerland has less homicides probably because the main reason they have that high of gun ownership is because they are required by military and therefor are trained to handle, still they have a significant higher suicide rate and out of the developed nations switzerland ranks top 4 in homicide rate... yeah, thats a refute

    so that leaves us with vermont, vermont refutes everything
    The reason why Switzerlands gun violence figures are a lot lower than those in the US is, how they have gun regulation which would be reason for some gun activists in the US to call out a civil war over gun ownership.

    Background checks? CHECK
    Track records on when the gun is used? CHECK
    Track records on how much ammo is used? CHECK

    And I believe they even have to attend some class to obtain the license in the first place.

    All things you cannot come up with in the US, because it would violate their freedom...
    Individual freedom values higher in the US than the freedom of the society as a whole..

    We may see that as asocial, but that's how the game is played in the US.
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  15. #25155
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I might be missing something (feel free to point it out), but I was responding to someone making the claim that gun violence in Mexico is evidence that gun availability in neighboring countries makes policies ineffective.

    To which I countered by pointing out the assumption he's making by stating that.

    Then you came along to say 'hurhur, you should be embarrassed' instead of actually saying anything of substance to counter my statement.

    I've looked at HBpapa's posts, and he's not talking about all guns in Mexico, just the ones confiscated in gang related activity. Of which, only about 10-15% are US military issued weapons.

    He also points out that 'US military issue' does not equate to 'obtained in the US.' If our country sells another country guns, and those guns end up being stolen by/sold to criminals, that is not the same as someone coming to the US to buy a gun to take back to Mexico.

    It's quite the opposite, in fact.

    So this notion that Mexico gets most of their guns from the US is not only incorrect, it's entirely fictional.
    I applaud your stretching.
    The Mexican army gets their weapon from the USA. Their legal (legal for how long) supply comes from the USA. Yet their gangs get their guns from South America. And the reason they do that is unknown...
    Djalil is russian,-he probably is Russian.-I'm convinced he's a mulsim-You are still a nazi sympathizer-Why are you pretenfing to be a European?-You and the other Hamas members.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vilendor View Post
    you are a muslim propagandist, terrorist supporter, liberalfascist far left-winger nutjob.
    Quote Originally Posted by Holas View Post
    My guess is that Djalil is an actual pedo or have pedo thoughts or really molested a child in the past

  16. #25156
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    this study is refuted? what?

    switzerland has less homicides probably because the main reason they have that high of gun ownership is because they are required by military and therefor are trained to handle, still they have a significant higher suicide rate and out of the developed nations switzerland ranks top 4 in homicide rate... yeah, thats a refute

    so that leaves us with vermont, vermont refutes everything
    When it comes to a causal relationship, yes, it does.

  17. #25157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    There is no juggling here, just your inability to understand the difference between firearm violence and a firearm homicide
    Homicide is always violent... No if's no buts. There are differences in homicides, as in intentional and unintentional. But it's always violence.
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  18. #25158
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    I applaud your stretching.
    The Mexican army gets their weapon from the USA. Their legal (legal for how long) supply comes from the USA. Yet their gangs get their guns from South America. And the reason they do that is unknown...
    If the Mexican Army imports firearms from US manufacturers, and then they lose them to theft or when people desert, the US isn't supplying the arms, the Mexican government is.

  19. #25159
    The Insane Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    When it comes to a causal relationship, yes, it does.
    vermont, has 600k citizens, the biggest city has less than 50k ... and people in here said the difference between the US and chile, turkey and other countries is to high, but hey vermont refutes everything

    please tell me you have something else than vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before.

    A bunch of times actually.

  20. #25160
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    vermont, has 600k citizens, the biggest city has less than 50k ... and people in here said the difference between the US and chile, turkey and other countries is to high, but hey vermont refutes everything

    please tell me you have something else than vermont
    Oh, so now population density impacts violence rates?

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