Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Aeluron Lightsong]

typical cop. "Well im a cop so I can carry a gun, but i dont want anyone else to". That being said, citizens (civilians is another term cops like even tho they are civilians also...) are held far more responsible. See how many times police are let off after an unjustified shooting/killing. An average citizen gets locked up, while a cop may face some "admin time" or "unpaid leave". As far as weapons handling, i've heard of far more cases where a cop left his/her gun in a public bathroom somewhere than the average citizen. Also, depending on the agency you work for, there is a good chance the average gun owner/enthusiast practices far more often.

Being that you qualled on a 229 DAK then im guessing possibly either Border Patrol or DHS (there are others yea, these are the 2 big ones that use sig). I know people that work for both and i know their practice schedules and they tell me they are so sparingly that they just do it on their own time...if they give a shit.


Being a normal citizen, and now the weather is nicer, i normally shoot at least 2 weekends a month. If it is your job, there is no excuse you shouldn't be training at least once a week...even if its on your own time. All i'm trying to say, is don't just assume that you are more qualified because you work for a federal law enforcement agency.

It's not a *typical cop*, See those kinds of responses aren't helping either. You've done plenty of bad stuff. That and that Roxx person baiting people. I mean nobody here is a saint but come on now.

[Sci Fi Samurai]

Did you know that suicide gun deaths are much more common then homicide gun deaths? Probably because those people are also mentally ill.

It's true, though it's tough to say how many are mentally ill. In ancient Rome, someone would receive a prognosis for a disease that could not be cured, and were essentially told to get their affairs in order; a suicide would be less painful than allowing whatever ailment to slowly devour them. Today, people effectively do the same thing but by eating a gun. I would think that'd be a lot easier than slitting your wrists in a bathtub.

Many other people do it when they're depressed. Severe depression is considered a mental illness, but I think that sort of thing is less clear than we like to believe. Depression is pretty common, and suicidal thoughts happen a lot more than people think. Taking it to the point of actual suicide is fortunately much less common, but not everyone who loses the will to live ends it with a cerebral blowout from the barrel of a gun. Many others do it through a fantastic drug high.

Speaking of which, after suicides the second highest cause for gun related deaths are from crime, predominantly the drug war. I've regularly heard that most people who do drugs do it for largely the same reason: it takes away the pain. I sometimes wonder if legalizing drugs wouldn't allow the chronically depressed a legal means to take off the edge while also staving off the desire of suicide that can eventually come from chronic depression. Legalizing drugs would also end the drug war, thereby eliminating deaths caused by the drug war.

Conveniently forgetting that firearms lend a dramatically increased rate of successful suicide over most other methods.

It's true. Also less painful.

I often question the value of criminalizing suicide. If the person succeeds, the point is nullified. If the person fails at killing themselves, then often they're left crippled (jumping from a building, breaking their legs, and getting paralyzed from the waist down for example) and possess the extra burden of being labeled a criminal. If they weren't depressed before, they are now. I can't imagine how that's at all helpful.

I also can't imagine how dying as a criminal vs dying as a law abiding citizen is any more meaningful to a person who is already in a situation where they are truly contemplating suicide. At the end of the day, a law like this only seems to produce feel good vibes and nothing truly substantial.

Suicides will happen and murders will happen, regardless of whether laws exist to criminalize them or not. I think it's worth considering whether it is healthy and civil to criminalize peaceful people who own guns and have not committed crimes simply because some people own guns and do commit crimes. It certainly doesn't seem that writing yet another law that takes a lateral approach to cover ground that already existing laws have covered will produce any outcome other than threaten the property of law abiding citizens, especially when many of the problems could be produced from an excess of laws to begin with.

[TITAN308]

well as a member of federal law enforcement who recently got my pistol qualification (SIG SAUER P229 DAK for the curious)...

i still don't think civilians should have weapons, or if they do they should be held equally responsible when it comes to training of A), weapons handling, and B) application of deadly force in the law.

This is the part where I link the youtube video of the DEA agent shooting himself infront of a classroom of kids after saying "I am the only one responsible enough to handle this gun"

Or maybe the part where I link repeated articles of the NYPD shooting nearby civilians and not hitting suspects.

I'll let you choose.

You can demand I get training like you have when you volunteer to give up your nearly blanket immunity for being a retard on the job.

If you want me to be trained like a cop, then I want the benefits of immunity as well.

[starlord]

typical cop. "Well im a cop so I can carry a gun, but i dont want anyone else to". That being said, citizens (civilians is another term cops like even tho they are civilians also...) are held far more responsible. See how many times police are let off after an unjustified shooting/killing. An average citizen gets locked up, while a cop may face some "admin time" or "unpaid leave". As far as weapons handling, i've heard of far more cases where a cop left his/her gun in a public bathroom somewhere than the average citizen. Also, depending on the agency you work for, there is a good chance the average gun owner/enthusiast practices far more often.

Being that you qualled on a 229 DAK then im guessing possibly either Border Patrol or DHS (there are others yea, these are the 2 big ones that use sig). I know people that work for both and i know their practice schedules and they tell me they are so sparingly that they just do it on their own time...if they give a shit.


Being a normal citizen, and now the weather is nicer, i normally shoot at least 2 weekends a month. If it is your job, there is no excuse you shouldn't be training at least once a week...even if its on your own time. All i'm trying to say, is don't just assume that you are more qualified because you work for a federal law enforcement agency.

thats well and good if someone practices on their own time.. but they aren't required to. nor are they required to have knowledge of when its acceptable to use their weapon before they buy it. and there's plenty of unjustified shootings where the shooter claimed "self defense" and got off scott free. if there were less civilians carrying then i think there would be a lot more scrutiny on law enforcement who use deadly force. as it is, well... "i thought he had a gun" is perfectly valid.
i just think its hilarious that the average civilian can go and play cowboy with barely any requirements whereas we have to get trained and at least be able to shoot accurately in order to carry. seems awfully backwards.

[vaeevictiss]

It's not a *typical cop*, See those kinds of responses aren't helping either. You've done plenty of bad stuff. That and that Roxx person baiting people. I mean nobody here is a saint but come on now.

It just pisses me off when police think they are the only ones that should have guns. I know, not all of them are like that...and many police actually support the citizenry being armed and often recommend it...but some just are not like that.

[starlord]

This is the part where I link the youtube video of the DEA agent shooting himself infront of a classroom of kids after saying "I am the only one responsible enough to handle this gun"

Or maybe the part where I link repeated articles of the NYPD shooting nearby civilians and not hitting suspects.

I'll let you choose.

i could tell you the story of how 2 of my family members got drunk and decided to try and murder each other with their guns too, but i dont think it would really prove anything either.

[TITAN308]

i could tell you the story of how 2 of my family members got drunk and decided to try and murder each other with their guns too, but i dont think it would really prove anything either.

You are the one who said cops should only have the guns.

I pointed out cops ALL THE TIME shoot innocent people, or act like dumbasses with guns.

Your "thin blue line" is also one of the most corrupt government entities we have.

How about you worry about you and I'll worry about me. How does real freedom taste?

Its clear that real freedom for a majority here scares the ever living shit out of them.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It just pisses me off when police think they are the only ones that should have guns. I know, not all of them are like that...and many police actually support the citizenry being armed and often recommend it...but some just are not like that.

It's probably because they rather have the least chance to get shot by a trigger happy citizen. It's bad enough for Cops to be on their toes these days with all the gun owners. Yeah Cops can be trigger happy to but having a power complex and being overly nervous because citizens own them to and can be prone to having a itchy trigger finger causes a lot of stress on both sides.

If that doesn't make sense then I'll give a short version. There's a lot of fear everywhere and it can cause disastrous events.

ALL THE TIME

No they don't. As much as the news loves to show this, it doesn't.

[TITAN308]

No they don't. As much as the news loves to show this, it doesn't.

How many news articles in the past 1 year would you like sir? How many should I share to change your mind?

Toss out a number.

Will it change your mind? is there better question though.

- - - Updated - - -

Is the Cato Institute respectable?

You’re Eight Times More Likely to be Killed by a Police Officer than a Terrorist

http://www.cato.org/blog/youre-eight-times-more-likely-be-killed-police-officer-terrorist

[starlord]

You are the one who said cops should only have the guns.

I pointed out cops ALL THE TIME shoot innocent people, or act like dumbasses with guns.

Your "thin blue line" is also one of the most corrupt government entities we have.

How about you worry about you and I'll worry about me. How does real freedom taste?

Its clear that real freedom for a majority here scares the ever living shit out of them.

yeah, there's cops who either abuse their weapons or act like dumbasses... people always slip through the cracks.

usually when there's "questionable" shootings they are responding to civilians abusing or acting like dumbasses with their weapons. and i assure you there's far more of those than bad cops. due in part to their almost complete lack of oversight. the problem of violence kind of feeds itself. when someone has a gun, it makes it very difficult and risky to resort to lower levels of force. can't physically subdue someone with a gun, or use pepper spray.
btw i'm in the US Coast Guard, not the LAPD.

[TITAN308]

yeah, there's cops who either abuse their weapons or act like dumbasses... people always slip through the cracks.

But we can't apply the logic to citizens. aka dumbasses slipping through the cracks?

But we can kinda just shrug it off if it involves cops I guess. =/

Are you catching on yet?

[obdigore]

Is the Cato Institute respectable?

http://www.cato.org/blog/youre-eight...icer-terrorist

The cato instate absolutely isn't respectable, but I'm kind of confused how 17 terrorist deaths (in 2011, when this statement is from) multiplied by 8 = 136 deaths by police officers is a lot in a nation of 300million+ with a contingent of people who say 'fuck the police' because they are being fed fearmongering ideals to 'fight the powa!'. Now lets talk about how many of those people were innocent? I don't see any figures on that because the only people who keep publicizing this number are fearmongering, just like the Koch-Brothers funded Cato Institute. Imagine that.

[TITAN308]

So you do not believe you have a greater chance of dying to a police officer than a terrorist?

Or how about a better chance of being shot by a cop than dying via a mass shooting ala Aurora?

I don't think you'll be happy with the numbers you discover, IF you honestly bothered to do some digging.

[starlord]

But we can't apply the logic to citizens. aka dumbasses slipping through the cracks?

But we can kinda just shrug it off if it involves cops I guess. =/

Are you catching on yet?

there's no cracks for them to slip through.. its wide open.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

So you do not believe you have a greater chance of dying to a police officer than a terrorist?

I believe both chances are small. Even smaller to a police officer. Stop the fearmongering.

[obdigore]

So you do not believe you have a greater chance of dying to a police officer than a terrorist?

That isn't what I said. We both know it. Stop lying.

Or how about a better chance of being shot by a cop than dying via a mass shooting ala Aurora?

http://www.reddit.com/r/GunsAreCool/...4massshootings

I don't think you'll be happy with the numbers you discover, IF you honestly bothered to do some digging.

Yes yes, more bullshit.

[lockedout]

I believe both chances are small. Even smaller to a police officer. Stop the fearmongering.

So even though facts state otherwise you just believe what you feel is right.

[Dolus]

This is the part where I link the youtube video of the DEA agent shooting himself infront of a classroom of kids after saying "I am the only one responsible enough to handle this gun"

Or maybe the part where I link repeated articles of the NYPD shooting nearby civilians and not hitting suspects.

I'll let you choose.

You can demand I get training like you have when you volunteer to give up your nearly blanket immunity for being a retard on the job.

If you want me to be trained like a cop, then I want the benefits of immunity as well.

It brought up a recent memory of the following... watch the video.

http://rt.com/usa/dallas-police-shoot-mentally-ill-694/

[Mayhem]

So even though facts state otherwise you just believe what you feel is right.

oh hey look, the pro gun lobby working with fear again, this time on the radar: the police

you´re more likely to be killed by a cop than by a terrorist, what does this tell you??

so have we found out if it´s non-crminals we´re talking about or is this number with criminals included?

then we have to look at the number of active terrorists and active policemen to see what´s the impact

[lockedout]

oh hey look, the pro gun lobby working with fear again, this time on the radar: the police

you´re more likely to be killed by a cop than by a terrorist, what does this tell you??

so have we found out if it´s non-crminals we´re talking about or is this number with criminals included?

then we have to look at the number of active terrorists and active policemen to see what´s the impact

If cops didn't have guns we wouldn't have to worry about it.