View Poll Results: Do you Support Assault Weapons Ban?

Voters
3737. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    2,284 61.12%
  • No

    1,453 38.88%
  1. #33681
    The Lightbringer PRE 9-11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    New England, USA
    Posts
    3,404
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Sure you do. Your argument is that Tinykong's statement is invalid.

    You've spent 10 pages arguing that point, so I'd sure as hell say that it's your argument.
    No. For the hundredth time. I'm not arguing that his statement is invalid. I'm arguing that he hasn't met the burden of proof. I've stated several times that I'm unsure whether the statement is true or false.

    You can't just say "the vast majority of gun owners are responsible" without providing actual evidence.

    If someone says "X is equal to Y," and I ask "Do you have proof for that?" I'm not saying X doesn't equal Y, I'm just asking for proof that it does.
    "(The Second Amendment) has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word 'fraud,' on the American public by special interest groups I have ever seen in my lifetime."

    -Former Chief Justice Warren Burger

  2. #33682
    Banned Rukentuts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Mini Soda
    Posts
    30,491
    You're asking someone to prove something when they just deny proof whenever it's presented. Just letting you know.

  3. #33683
    Pandaren Monk Fyre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    1,892
    No because people can kill each other with teeth and rocks if they want to so I doubt it would have much effect on crime.

  4. #33684
    The Lightbringer Ghostpanther's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    USA, Ohio
    Posts
    3,174
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    No. For the hundredth time. I'm not arguing that his statement is invalid. I'm arguing that he hasn't met the burden of proof. I've stated several times that I'm unsure whether the statement is true or false.

    You can't just say "the vast majority of gun owners are responsible" without providing actual evidence.

    If someone says "X is equal to Y," and I ask "Do you have proof for that?" I'm not saying X doesn't equal Y, I'm just asking for proof that it does.
    Well the evidence is there for most folks to see. But accepting it is not something you want to. Even if you will not accept it, you also can not prove the great majority are not responsible. So the millions of gun owners will continue to use them with a very low rate of any of them being used in a crime or accidents, or by any other irresponsible ways.

    And the government by the people for the people will continue on with the right to keep and bear arms. And it is worthy to repeat, any registration needs to be done in a way which will be acceptable by the mass majority of gun owners or you will end up nationally like what happened in Conn. Only instead of talking about tens of thousands not registering their guns, we will be talking about tens of millions. Then you would say for sure, most gun owners are not responsible.

  5. #33685
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Well the evidence is there for most folks to see. But accepting it is not something you want to. Even if you will not accept it, you also can not prove the great majority are not responsible. So the millions of gun owners will continue to use them with a very low rate of any of them being used in a crime or accidents, or by any other irresponsible ways.
    Sorry, thats not how things work.

    I cant just say the loch ness monster is real, and you must prove me otherwise. Its up to me to show evidence that he is real.

  6. #33686
    Herald of the Titans Dethh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Jersey
    Posts
    2,545
    Quote Originally Posted by usiris View Post
    Sorry, thats not how things work.

    I cant just say the loch ness monster is real, and you must prove me otherwise. Its up to me to show evidence that he is real.
    Number of gun owners/number of gun related accidents would be your evidence.

  7. #33687
    Banned Rukentuts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Mini Soda
    Posts
    30,491
    You can't draw scientific conclusions from raw data.

  8. #33688
    Herald of the Titans Dethh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Jersey
    Posts
    2,545
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    You can't draw scientific conclusions from raw data.
    You're right, if I dropped my rifle on my toe, broke it and had to go to the hospital it would be classified as a gun related accident.

  9. #33689
    Quote Originally Posted by Dolus View Post
    Get tired of the argument(s):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84ptFVq22PY



    A study by the National Academy of Sciences (2004) reviewed over 200 journal articles, 99 books, and 43 government publications evaluating 80 "gun control" measures. Researchers were unable to find empirical evidence that restrictive gun laws and regulations reduced violent crime, suicide, or accidents.

    Source: http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309091241
    Will be ignored.

  10. #33690
    Banned Rukentuts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Mini Soda
    Posts
    30,491
    Quote Originally Posted by TITAN308 View Post
    Will be ignored.
    Yeah tell me what US federal "restrictive laws" they analyzed. I can think of one.

    Because this is what they said:

    Little is known about the potential effectiveness of a market-based approach to reducing criminal access to firearms.
    Because they can't tell the future.

    Oh my, such a groundbreaking link.
    Last edited by Rukentuts; 2014-06-27 at 02:10 PM.

  11. #33691
    The Lightbringer Ghostpanther's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    USA, Ohio
    Posts
    3,174
    Quote Originally Posted by usiris View Post
    Sorry, thats not how things work.

    I cant just say the loch ness monster is real, and you must prove me otherwise. Its up to me to show evidence that he is real.
    Hehe. Not a good comparison. Trying to relate something which may not even exist to data which does exists to show the number of gun owners , compared to the number of irresponsible actions speaks for itself. The law assumes a car owner is responsible until they prove they are not with a accident or a speeding, operational violation. Same is true for gun owners. If these were not true, then no citizen would get a license. :P

  12. #33692
    Bloodsail Admiral
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,190
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Yeah tell me what US federal "restrictive laws" they analyzed. I can think of one.

    Because this is what they said:

    Because they can't tell the future.

    Oh my, such a groundbreaking link.
    So in this thread we have you complaining that pro-gun nuts dismiss dozens of studies and that this indicates denialism, and here you are, dismissing a review of hundreds of studies.


  13. #33693
    Banned Rukentuts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Mini Soda
    Posts
    30,491
    Quote Originally Posted by vetinari View Post
    So in this thread we have you complaining that pro-gun nuts dismiss dozens of studies and that this indicates denialism, and here you are, dismissing a review of hundreds of studies.

    Yeah, I'm dismissing it when I quoted them that they admitted they don't know future consequences of non-existing actions in this country.

  14. #33694
    Quote Originally Posted by vetinari View Post
    So in this thread we have you complaining that pro-gun nuts dismiss dozens of studies and that this indicates denialism, and here you are, dismissing a review of hundreds of studies.

    He dismissed it on its merits and limitations. He didn't hand wave it away, which is usually what he complains about in other posters.
    เนื้อย่างน้ำตก

  15. #33695
    You can't draw scientific conclusions from raw data.
    Actually, you can.

    But I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jevlin
    Why? Because fuck you, that's why.

    Every time you have a question that begins with "Why?" that is about what other people prefer to do with their own goddamn time, come back here, and reread the first row of this post. That will ALWAYS be the answer to your question. Have a nice day.

  16. #33696
    Banned Rukentuts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Mini Soda
    Posts
    30,491
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    Actually, you can.
    Explain to me how you can draw a scientific conclusion off of one variable (guns) off raw data which is the sum of a plethora of many uncontrolled variables.

  17. #33697
    The Lightbringer PRE 9-11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    New England, USA
    Posts
    3,404
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    Actually, you can.

    But I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.
    Can you give an example of a scientific conclusion being drawn from raw data?
    "(The Second Amendment) has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word 'fraud,' on the American public by special interest groups I have ever seen in my lifetime."

    -Former Chief Justice Warren Burger

  18. #33698
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    that is a prime example for irresponsible gun ownership, he stole the weapons from his mother
    And yet your reply has absolutely nothing to do with the point being made, per usual.
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    I am ACTUALLY ASKING for them to ban me and relieve me from the misery of this thread.

  19. #33699
    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    The thing you're afraid of is the thing you want widely distributed so you can protect yourself from the thing you're afraid of. It's not fucking difficult.
    The thing I'm afraid of? Wierd phrasing. I guess you can't actually explain your point without resorting to the paranoia diatribe. Maybe it is "fucking difficult", because your point is off base.

    Assuming folks purchase a gun for self-defense, they are not purchasing it to be used in a firefight. They may be wanting it to equalize a gun, but moreso they are trying to protect themselves from violence/ criminals. If a woman buys a gun because there have been a lot of rapes in her neighborhood, that does not in any way have anything to do with guns among criminals, let alone your completely off the wall "I still haven't seen any gun nuts fully address my point that almost every gun used in crimes was at some point a legal gun."

    In point of fact, we do not address that because it is not a factor. We believe that social problems, recidivism, lack of enforcement, and countless other factors are the reason for the violent crimes. It does not matter if the person breaking into your house has a gun or an axe, you don't want to confront them with a cooking knife if you have other options.

    For point of reference, technically my guns are the most valuable (dollarwise) things I own. Therefor using your logic I have guns to protect my guns.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    You forgot, a bit meh, because most of the people who go batshit crazy with their guns obtained them legally.
    What's the qualifier for "went batshit crazy"? Since most guns used in crimes are not obtained legally, I assume you mean "most high profile mass shooting cases involve people that obtained their guns legally"?

    I mean, except for the Sandyhook guy that killed his mother and took her guns, that doesn't seem legal, but I'm sure there's plenty of cases, not matter how statistically insignificant the number.

  20. #33700
    "If I can't control it, it scares me"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •