Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Cthulhu 2020]

http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/274764091.html

That's funny. New law, working as intended.

Toilet 1, self defense 0.

[TZucchini]

I honestly have no idea where you're coming from, here. Violent criminals, in general and by definition, are more prone to caring about themselves to the utmost and not caring about the impact their actions cause to other people or the moral or lawful implications of said actions.

That doesn't translate to: 'More likely to defend ones life when faced with imminent danger.' Not even close. You're miles away from proving that statement to be true.

I simply cannot believe, when faced with an immediate threat to ones life, that a criminal is more likely to neutralize a threat than a lawful citizen, simply because they're a criminal. Their lawful status has nothing to do with with their willingness to not die. It's an absurd position.

Slant it one direction and of course you're going to find examples. I never said you wouldn't.

Errmm...You never said I wouldn't? Didn't you just say "It's like you think that there exists a scenario where both parties are armed, but the attacker still doesn't fear for his life." There does exist such a scenario. I just gave it to you.

The number still comes from the same source, the NCVS, and I've already addressed the inherent failure of the NCVS to account for all DGUs.

And I've already addressed your flawed critique of the NCVS. You cannot lawfully stop a crime with a firearm before said crime happens.

And since the NCVS includes attempted attacks, as well as threatened attacks, nearly all scenarios are considered. It is by far the best, most consistent source for victimization information.

- - - Updated - - -

47 people shot, classrooms full of people, and 17 magazine reloads, yet nobody was able to stop the shooter?

Da fuq does this have to do with what I said? I gave an example of someone being tackled while reloading. Did you extrapolate that to 'all shooters are tackled while reloading, every time, ever. ever.' ?

[PhaelixWW]

That's funny. New law, working as intended.

Apparently you forgot how to read your own article. Unsurprising.

[Utah state Rep. Curt Oda, R-Clearfield] said Utah has allowed teachers to carry concealed weapons for 13 years and this is the first problem he can recall.

13 years, one non-serious accidental injury. Oh, the humanity. (Think of the children!)

[Rukentuts]

1 injury, and 0 cases of effectiveness. Of course zero tends to be par for the course when it comes to guns stopping mass shootings. We better cling to the delusion that they're effective to sate our paranoia, however.

[PhaelixWW]

Their lawful status has nothing to do with with their willingness to not die. It's an absurd position.

Their lawful status, or rather the lack of morality typical in a person of non-lawful status, has everything to do with their willingness to injure another person unto death in order to not die. Neither party wants to die. One party will be statistically more likely to be willing to kill another human being to do so. It's not fucking rocket science.

Errmm...You never said I wouldn't? Didn't you just say "It's like you think that there exists a scenario where both parties are armed, but the attacker still doesn't fear for his life." There does exist such a scenario. I just gave it to you.

Herpa-fucking-derp. Sure, I said that... in the context of "all things being equal."

I didn't say that you couldn't possibly slant a specific situation to suit your narrative, I said that if two people are facing off, both armed, and everything is equal except for the fact that one is an attacker an the other is a defender, then both parties are going to fear for their life an act accordingly. And the mind-set of the attacker would tend to be more conducive to firing first rather than hesitate while listening to their internal morality and its pesky concern with harming another human being.

Da fuq does this have to do with what I said? I gave an example of someone being tackled while reloading. Did you extrapolate that to 'all shooters are tackled while reloading, every time, ever. ever.' ?

Like I said, you ignored the post earlier where I responded to your picture of Loughner with:

Ah, anecdotal evidence alert!

Well, I'll counter your [pic of Loughner] with a [pic of Cho].

I was just countering one case of anecdotal evidence with another. Mine just happened to be the single worst civilian mass shooting in US history, with 17 magazine reloads, and nary a tackle, despite his victims being mostly college-age specimens in their physical prime. If anyone's going to be stupid enough to charge and tackle a shooter while reloading, you'd think college students would be it (even at a tech school).

Loughner's case was spectacular mostly because he was clumsy and dropped the magazine.

- - - Updated - - -

1 injury, and 0 cases of effectiveness. Of course zero tends to be par for the course when it comes to guns stopping mass shootings.

Zero cases of school shootings in Utah. Yeah, guess that means they're ineffective.

Utah has an unblemished record of failing to stop school shootings.

[Rukentuts]

Zero cases of school shootings in Utah. Yeah, guess that means they're ineffective.

Utah has an unblemished record of failing to stop school shootings.

Like civilians' guns' unblemished record of stopping mass shootings, right?

[PhaelixWW]

Like civilians' guns' unblemished record of stopping mass shootings.

Nice post edit. Caught yourself being wrong, eh?

Just for the record, your original post was:

I said mass shootings.

And you go after others for apparent failures to read.

[Rukentuts]

Nice post edit. Caught yourself being wrong, eh?

Can't even defend an argument, just make shit up.

Not surprised.

[PhaelixWW]

Can't even defend an argument, just make shit up.

Not surprised.

Got caught being wrong, edited your post to cover it up, and accused others of making shit up.

Classic Rukentuts. Your antics are hilariously embarrassing. I'm gonna go back to waiting for some more on-topic discussion.

Infracted - please post constructively

[PhaelixWW]

Really, then where's the edit message? Didn't think that part through, eh? Hilarious.

If you edit quickly enough, there's no edit message. I thought that was common knowledge. You have a minute or two to do so before the edit message is automatically added.

But like I said, I'm going to go back to waiting for a meaningful post.

[Rukentuts]

But like I said, I'm going to go back to waiting for a meaningful post.

You probably should. Because delving around in fantasy posts is about as compelling as one trying to defend civvies' records (or very lack thereof) for stopping mass shootings with their guns.

[Tinykong]

You probably should. Because delving around in fantasy posts is about as compelling as one trying to defend civvies' records (or very lack thereof) for stopping mass shootings with their guns.

hashtag anecdotes hashtag

[Dethh]

A police officer showing his glock 40 in a classroom. He obviously went through vigorous firearm training. Sorry if this is a repost.

[Mayhem]

For the last fucking time, I never said the accessories were purely cosmetic. It's the liberal gun control crowd who is decided to pass legislation based on how a firearm looks, turning this into a cosmetic argument.

did you slap yourself after you´ve formed these two sentences? you yourself acknowledged that some add function to a firearm and then go around telling me that the legislation is based only on looks?

The overall point is that you keep ignoring the fact that the added functionality of any given accessory doesn't necessarily change the function of the firearm it's added to.

no, i´m not ignoring this at all, i explained to you why i don´t mention it

[vetinari]

did you slap yourself after you´ve formed these two sentences? you yourself acknowledged that some add function to a firearm and then go around telling me that the legislation is based only on looks?

People want "assault weapons" banned because they look scary.

Bayonet lugs should totally be banned though.

[Deletedaccount1]

what is the quickest way to shoot yourself?

[Schuetze]

People want "assault weapons" banned because they look scary.

Bayonet lugs should totally be banned though.

Banning bayonet lugs would mean that you would completely outlaw most milsurp rifles. Again, I doubt there are any incidents with bayonet lugs.

[vetinari]

Banning bayonet lugs would mean that you would completely outlaw most milsurp rifles. Again, I doubt there are any incidents with bayonet lugs.

/whoosh

The assault weapon ban banned bayonet lugs back in the day, you could remove them and have a perfectly legal weapon once more ...

[TZucchini]

Their lawful status, or rather the lack of morality typical in a person of non-lawful status, has everything to do with their willingness to injure another person unto death in order to not die. Neither party wants to die. One party will be statistically more likely to be willing to kill another human being to do so.

I'm really confused as to why you're holding so steadfast to this unprovable opinion. Morality has absolutely nothing to do with the justified killing of someone that poses an immediate threat to your life.

Police and Military. These are non-criminals, most of whom have good morals. Yet they don't seem to hesitate to eliminate a threat to their life. Hell if anything, Police get criticized for using lethal force way too early, and too often.

So this idea that criminals with bad morals are more likely to defend their life compared to non-criminals with good morals is just completely unfounded.

I was just countering one case of anecdotal evidence with another.

OK. But what does your anecdote have to do with my statement? I'm not denying that shootings take place where people can't tackle the shooter.

This all originally started from 'regulating accessories does nothing,' with Ruken pointing out that it effects reloading. I gave an example of reloading issues leading to fewer deaths. You're 'counter' is completely out of context. No one said it happens every time.

[Ghostpanther]

what is the quickest way to shoot yourself?

The same way another person can shoot you.