Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Mayhem]

I agree we need to work on the various reason that people turn to crime. That is a big wide spread topic though.

But people need to understand that if you break into someones house, anywhere in the world, that it may end very poorly for you.

Whether the home owner uses a gun, a bat, a knife, anything to defend themselves, they should have that right. If the criminal runs off then so be it. But when people defend killing a criminal who comes at you once they are in the home, that amazes me.

being armed or willing to defend your home isn´t a deterrent untill to the very last point, i wouldn´t recommend engaging with a criminal, it could work out, sure, there are plenty of stories where it worked, but there are an equal number of stories where it didn´t

criminals in general already know that they´re doing something unlawful and are willing to take that risk, now depending on their experience and intellect they come prepared or unprepared, both are almost equally dangerous

homeowners shouldn´t have more rights than any other person on the street defending themself

[TwoNineMarine]

And I understand not wanting to engage with a criminal. And I agree. But they would force my hand when they enter my house uninvited. Especially if my boys were there. At that point my safety is secondary to my wife and boys.

And I agree that homeowners shouldn't have any more rights then people on the street when it comes to defending themselves. Which is why I feel there should be no issues with people defending themselves on the street if someone tries to rob/hurt/whatever them.

[lockedout]

see that´s the issue here, who´s able to prove that he wasn´t coming at you?

Once he's in your house that is enough for me to take him as a threat to my life. I don't care which way he is facing he could have easily avoided being shot by not crawling in my house.

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homeowners shouldn´t have more rights than any other person on the street defending themself

Your making it sound like if you own a home you can shoot people in the street. Were talking about a homeowner defending themselves in their home not the street.

[Mayhem]

Your making it sound like if you own a home you can shoot people in the street. Were talking about a homeowner defending themselves in their home not the street.

you know what i mean though, the difference is really only that one person is within stuff he owns while the other isn´t...

[lockedout]

you know what i mean though, the difference is really only that one person is within stuff he owns while the other isn´t...

Which is a huge difference, at least in America.

[Ghostpanther]

homeowners shouldn´t have more rights than any other person on the street defending themself

They do when the other person is a criminal breaking into their home. This is a good law and the heart of why we can use the 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms in the US for self defense purposes. Just the way it is over here.

[Mayhem]

Which is a huge difference, at least in America.

apparently, it makes little to no sense

are set/spring guns allowed? could make these issues alot easier

[lockedout]

They do when the other person is a criminal breaking into their home. This is a good law and the heart of why we can use the 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms in the US for self defense purposes. Just the way it is over here.

Some people think if someone is in your house they are there just there to steal your stuff which MIGHT be true. Personally if I woke up and there was someone in my house I am shooting them, I'm sorry you were just coming for my TV but I am not willing to find out if that is your only motive.

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apparently, it makes little to no sense

Different strokes for different folks.

[Mayhem]

Different strokes for different folks.

why do you have more right to defend yourself just because you´re in a special place? that makes no sense, your life isn´t worth more just because there´s your stuff around with you ^^

[lockedout]

why do you have more right to defend yourself just because you´re in a special place? that makes no sense, your life isn´t worth more just because there´s your stuff around with you ^^

If you decided to break into my house you are a threat to my life, I'm sorry that's how I see it. Also I am not saying I have MORE right to defend myself, he can fight back all he wants. Just to be clear my "stuff" has nothing to do with this. It's the fact you are in my house.

[Mayhem]

If you decided to break into my house you are a threat to my life, I'm sorry that's how I see it. Also I am not saying I have MORE right to defend myself, he can fight back all he wants. Just to be clear my "stuff" has nothing to do with this. It's the fact you are in my house.

so if i threaten you on the street you have the right to just shoot me? no

but if i´m in your house you suddenly have that right...

well, it´s kind of hard to be in your house without having your stuff around you, no?

[Ghostpanther]

why do you have more right to defend yourself just because you´re in a special place? that makes no sense, your life isn´t worth more just because there´s your stuff around with you ^^

You are forgetting the home owner cannot read the intruder's mind as to what extent they are willing to go or their full intentions. And yeah, someone invades your country you would understand the need to take human life. So your country is a special place and you have the right to defend it. The home owner feels the same about their place. It is special.

[lockedout]

so if i threaten you on the street you have the right to just shoot me? no

but if i´m in your house you suddenly have that right...

well, it´s kind of hard to be in your house without having your stuff around you, no?

Threaten me? I mean it would depend how you are threatening me. Are you pointing a gun at me telling me you're going to kill me?
If you're in my house you have demonstrated criminal intent and are in the process of committing a felony, I have every right to be in fear of my life just by your presence. You seem to keep mentioning "my stuff" it has nothing to do with that. Sure my house is filled with my stuff.

[Ghostpanther]

so if i threaten you on the street you have the right to just shoot me? no

but if i´m in your house you suddenly have that right...

well, it´s kind of hard to be in your house without having your stuff around you, no?

Out on the street it would depend more on the circumstances and how the one person is threatening someone. Verbally or actually physically attacking them. If they are armed or clearly stronger, etc.

[TwoNineMarine]

so if i threaten you on the street you have the right to just shoot me? no

but if i´m in your house you suddenly have that right...

well, it´s kind of hard to be in your house without having your stuff around you, no?

If you threaten me with possible serious bodily harm or death, regardless of where we are, I will shoot you. If you make an obvious move that could possibly seriously injure or kill me then you better hope you get me before I get you.

[Mayhem]

You are forgetting the home owner cannot read the intruder's mind as to what extent they are willing to go or their full intentions. And yeah, someone invades your country you would understand the need to take human life. So your country is a special place and you have the right to defend it. The home owner feels the same about their place. It is special.

so, breaking in is on the level of starting a war, gotcha

so because you can´t read someones mind it´s better to shoot first and if possible ask questions later

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Threaten me? I mean it would depend how you are threatening me. Are you pointing a gun at me telling me you're going to kill me?
If you're in my house you have demonstrated criminal intent and are in the process of committing a felony, I have every right to be in fear of my life just by your presence. You seem to keep mentioning "my stuff" it has nothing to do with that. Sure my house is filled with my stuff.

your house is part of your stuff, are you allowed to stop a felony from happening with shooting the crminal?

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Out on the street it would depend more on the circumstances and how the one person is threatening someone. Verbally or actually physically attacking them. If they are armed or clearly stronger, etc.

so a threatening presence isn´t enough, this sounds so arbitrary

having fear on the street depends on what´s going on,
having fear at your home gives you every right to shoot and possibly kill

[TwoNineMarine]

so, breaking in is on the level of starting a war, gotcha

You never address the actual point people are making. You always seem to stray off on an analogy people put out there.

Instead of trying to derail, why not focus on what they are saying. He is not saying that breaking into a home is the same as starting a war.

He was comparing your home to being your castle. Your safe place. Much like your country should be. So when someone threatens that by coming in illegally then you should be perfectly justified to defend it.

[lockedout]

are you allowed to stop a felony from happening with shooting the crminal?

I am not sure. I am sure however that if an intruder is in my house his mere presence would make me fear for my life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleeing_felon_rule

At Common law, the Fleeing Felon Rule permits the use of force, including deadly force, against an individual who is suspected of a felony and is in clear flight. Force may be used by the victim, bystanders, or police officers. In some jurisprudence failure to use such force was a misdemeanor which could result in a fine or imprisonment. According to David Caplan "Immediate stopping of the fleeing felon, whether actually or presumably dangerous, was deemed absolutely necessary for the security of the people in a free state, and for maintaining the "public security." ... " Indeed, it has been said that the social policy of the common law in this matter was not only to threaten dangerous felons and hence deter them, but was also to induce them to "surrender peaceably" if they dared commit inherently dangerous felonies, rather than allow them to "escape trial for their crimes."

[Mayhem]

You never address the actual point people are making. You always seem to stray off on an analogy people put out there.

Instead of trying to derail, why not focus on what they are saying. He is not saying that breaking into a home is the same as starting a war.

He was comparing your home to being your castle. Your safe place. Much like your country should be. So when someone threatens that by coming in illegally then you should be perfectly justified to defend it.

i´m aware of that, it´s just a ridiculous analogy

i´m not against defending your stuff nor your life, i don´t understand why your home makes that big of a difference though, at home the mere presence of someone uninvited is enough to induce fear on a level that people are willing and ok with taking lifes

makes no sense to me, and it certainly doesn´t make any sense to create a law that makes it ok

in the light of the different rights you claim to be inalienable these laws make it pretty easy to take away rights from people

[lockedout]

i i don´t understand why your home makes that big of a difference though

It's your personal sanctuary, it's where you raise your family, it is the called the "castle" doctrine/law for a reason.

The legal concept of the inviolability of the home has been known in Western Civilization since the age of the Roman Republic.[2] The term derives from the historic English common law dictum that "an Englishman's home is his castle". This concept was established as English law by the 17th century jurist Sir Edward Coke, in his The Institutes of the Laws of England, 1628:[3]

For a man's house is his castle, et domus sua cuique est tutissimum refugium [and each man's home is his safest refuge]