Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.- Thucydides
There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.- Eugen Weber
The murder rate with ANY semi-automatic firearm has gone up 1 percent, yes one percent, since 1980. That is from the Justice Bureau, not Universities who are full of professors who think that Communism is what we need.
Your "fact" is an opinion. How much do you actually know about firearms themselves? Did you know that it is nearly impossible to actually get your hands on a legitimate assault rifle? Assault Weapons are a bullshit term that the left wing throws around, but has no actual definition. A true "assault weapon" has a very large magazine capacity and a fully automatic function. Semi-automatic means that you have to squeeze the trigger every time you want to fire a single bullet. Assault Weapons require several permits and licenses, and go for upwards of 15,000 bucks. Did you know any of that? I'm going to guess not, seeing as how even most pro-gun people don't
The first part of your second paragraph is about the only thing I agree with you about. If I want to purchase a firearm, I have no problem forfeiting my right to patient-doctor confidentiality to do so. If I have any sort of mental issue that could one day potentially turn me into a gun toting maniac, then I should not be allowed to purchase one plain and simple. Heres the problem though, most people think that everyone with a gun is exactly what you said, a twatstain with a mullet. You don't think of State legislatures or county officials carrying a firearm do you? How about that guy in the nice suit? No you probably think that all gun owners have a mullet, wear overalls, and bang their sisters and cousins. Thats what the media portrays gun owners as.
What pisses me off is that most people also think that everyone who owns a gun doesn't have the slightest clue as how to operate it. That isn't the case either. Ofcourse there are people out there who own firearms and don't have the slightest idea about how to operate, let alone gun safety, or even how to assess a potentially dangerous situation. But personally, I haven't come across anyone who owns a firearm that does not know the same, if not more, than law enforcement.
What also pisses me off is the tired logic of less firearms means less people get their hands on them. Since when do criminals obey the law? Because meth and cocaine say hi! Majority of confiscated or turned in firearms will not be destroyed, but will be locked up instead. That does not really provide much protection for anyone, now would it? Guns would end up staying in the hands of criminals, but be taken out of the hands of law abiding citizens? How the fuck is that supposed to protect my family and I?
Obviously you have some math problems as well. Over in England, armed robberies during daylight hours when people are home have gone up 39% since they banned firearms. To protect your own personal property, you don't need to shoot to kill. Most of the time if the burglar so much as sees you with a firearm, they're going to get the hell out of there seeing as how for them, a robbery charge can now possibly turn into a murder charge instead. Less guns in the hands of law abiding citizens has also kept crimes committed with a firearm very high in places where people cannot even legally purchase a firearm, such as NYC and Chicago. Again, how does your math fit in here, considering that there aren't less guns, but no guns at all in these areas?
Gun people who have little regard for human life annoy me too, trust me. What also annoys me are people who don't want you to have the ability to protect yourself. That mentality means that you have more of a regard for the life of the criminal than for me and my family, people who contribute to society and help try to make this world a better place. Owning a gun isn't about having disregard for human life. When you purchase your first firearm, you are assuming the responsibility to protect. PROTECT. Not show it off, not fire at innocent bystanders, not fire it because you think someone looks suspicious. It is a mechanism for defense. The only time it should ever be used offensively is if the Government were to become tyrannical and begin slaughtering it's own citizens. If you do not have any regard for human life, then you should not own a firearm, because you then obviously do not understand the basic concept of owning a firearm. Never point the muzzle at anything you aren't willing to destroy.
I really hope that you don't get banned. Even though you have grouped up everyone who is pro-gun under one flag, and taken all possibilities of exceptions out of your post, it does not take away from the fact that you have an opinion, and you have the right to express that opinion.
I will not be able to search this entire thread to see if this is covered, but the bill being introduced is calling to ban guns that HAVE THE CAPABILITY to carry 10 or more rounds of ammo, regardless if you don't own any upgrades. This means that everything except for some revolvers, some handguns, a couple of shotguns, and a couple of rifles, are banned. Even most hunting rifles nowadays at least have the capability of carrying 10 shots. So even though it isn't "technically" a full on gun ban, it still is pretty much a full on gun ban. Obama has also been quoted on saying that if this bill does not pass, that he will sign the U.N. Small Arms treaty, which would ban all guns and outlaw hunting.
This is the gov't's loophole, and that is why so many people are so against gun control. The Government now has a way to ban guns without technically violating or abolishing the second amendment. And with the rate the gov't is growing, and the increasing number of "social equality solutions" they are proposing, it really does seem that next year could be the start of a subtle socialist regime. Again, that is why people are so against it.
Not even close to what I was looking for, but it does give you the gist of things. My father-in-law printed out the article, so I'll ask him for it tomorrow so I can copy the link and paste it over here.
to clarify though, "small arms", in the language used in the document, are essentially the same as in the bill that will be introduced in January. The outlawing of hunting comes from another part of Agenda 21, but would be incorporated into the document, in regards to wildlife preservation.
Since whatever legislation is passed would certainly end up in front of the Supreme Court, with five conservative justices, and even U.N. treaties have to be ratified by congress? I'm not seeing their reasoning to get so upset. If they choose not to participate, then they will only have themselves to blame.
Last edited by SirRobin; 2012-12-29 at 06:47 AM. Reason: Color Me Confused
Generally, even though I am a conservative, I utterly despise what the majority of the right has become. I'm not really counting on them to actually stick to their guns, no pun intended, on this bill, no matter how much the NRA throws money at them.
But all in all, I pray that you are correct, because there have been quite a few things as of late, that to me at least, are screaming false flag. And on that note, I pray that I am very, very, very wrong about that.
---------- Post added 2012-12-28 at 10:53 PM ----------
The reason the U.N. could enforce firearm regulation in the U.S. is because the U.S. would give them the go ahead. The current administration is buying into the globalization movement slowly but surely. I completely understand the rest of the world's decision in moving towards Globalization, however that was not why this country was founded, which is why I mainly have a problem with it. If we were to fully adopt the U.N.'s Agenda 21, the constitution ceases and we would then be under international law.
As the poster above you stated, congress has the power to ratify U.N. treaties and other documents, and as of right now that's the only way that the U.N. could enforce regulations within our own Gov't.
Also, I'd like to thank you for your civil response. It's not often you find level headed people like that, especially on a heated topic such as this
Unless you find someone a hell of a lot smarter than LaPierre, more accurate than Woolery, and come out with a counter to Feinstein that doesn't sound like an insult to just about everybody's intelligence? Well... Again, you'll really only have yourselves to blame.
Anyone seen any "I'm a gun owner" commercials yet? Wouldn't be surprised if those hit the airwaves soon.
Last edited by SirRobin; 2012-12-29 at 07:09 AM. Reason: What channel?
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I found this video quite interesting. Especially the part of how Lanza's dad and the Aurora theater shooter are both testifying for the gov on the same thing. Makes you wonder. Sigh helps if i add the link.
Last edited by ugotownd; 2012-12-29 at 10:07 AM. Reason: forgot link
Every State is unique and different. Some are harder to get a weapon then most. But in this state I could go buy a shotgun its as easy as walking into a store and passing a ten minute back ground check and fitting that weapon into my car. While I am deeply flattered by you saying my posts are comical however they bend in truth not in fiction.
So I really sincerely do not know what is comical about them. I'm not talking about an AR-15 from the video. Then again this is another distraction from me seeing the entire picture. As Mitt Romney once said during the 3rd debates..attacking me is not an agenda.
Emotion definitely had its place in how this country came to be, but the writing of the Constitution came later. In fact, for such a time, right after a massive revolution, the Constitution is a remarkably sober, forward-thinking piece of reason and logic. The framers of the Constitution didn't let themselves be driven by fear.
One story is hardly "proof".
DATE LOCATION KILLED WOUNDED WEAPONS USED 12/14/2012 Newtown, CT 28 2 1 AR-15, 2 handguns, 1 shotgun 09/27/2012 Minneapolis, MN 7 2 1 handgun 08/05/2012 Oak Creek, WI 7 4 1 handgun 07/20/2012 Aurora, CO 12 58 1 AR-15, 2 handguns, 1 shotgun 04/02/2012 Oakland, CA 7 3 1 handgun 12/25/2011 Grapevine, TX 7 0 2 handguns 10/12/2011 Seal Beach, CA 8 1 3 handguns 09/06/2011 Carson City, NV 5 7 1 AK-47 08/07/2011 Copley Township, OH 8 1 2 handguns 07/07/2011 Grand Rapids, MI 8 2 1 handgun 01/08/2011 Tucson, AZ 6 13 1 handgun 08/03/2010 Manchester, CT 9 2 1 handgun 01/19/2010 Appomatox, VA 8 0 1 high-powered rifle 09/18/2009 Naples, FL 6 0 1 knife 07/18/2009 Fayetteville, TN, et al. 6 0 1 knife 01/27/2009 Los Angeles, CA 7 0 1 handgun 04/03/2009 Binghampton, NY 14 4 2 handguns 03/29/2009 Carthage, NC 8 2 2 handguns, 1 shotgun 03/10/2009 Kinston, AL, et al. 11 6 1 AR-15, 1 SKS, 1 handgun, 1 shotgun 12/24/2008 Covina, CA 10 3 4 handguns 09/02/2008 Alger, WA 6 4 1 lever-action rifle 06/23/2008 Sterling, IL, et al. 8 0 1 blunt weapon 03/02/2008 Memphis, TN 6 3 1 handgun, 1 knife 02/14/2008 DeKalb, IL 6 21 3 handguns, 1 shotgun 02/07/2008 Kirkwood, MO 7 1 2 handguns 12/05/2007 Omaha, NE 9 6 1 AK-47 10/07/2007 Crandon, WI 7 1 1 AR-15 08/24/2007 Marble Falls, TX, et al. 6 0 1 handgun 04/16/2007 Blacksburg, VA 32 17 2 handguns 02/12/2007 Salt Lake City, UT 6 5 1 handgun, 1 shotgun 12/16/2006 Kansas City, KS 7 0 1 handgun 10/02/2006 Nickel Mines, PA 6 5 1 bolt-action rifle, 1 handgun, 1 shotgun 06/02/2006 Indianapolis, IN 7 0 1 assault weapon 04/08/2006 Leola, PA 6 0 1 blunt weapon 03/25/2006 Seattle, WA 7 2 1 handgun, 1 shotgun 01/30/2006 Goleta, CA 8 0 1 handgun 03/21/2005 Red Lake, MN 10 7 2 handguns, 1 shotgun 03/12/2005 Brookfield, WI 8 4 1 handgun 03/11/2005 Atlanta, GA 4 1 1 handgun 11/21/2004 Birchwood, WI 6 2 1 semi-automatic rifle 03/12/2004 Fresno, CA 9 0 1 handgun 08/27/2003 Chicago, IL 6 0 1 handgun 07/08/2003 Meridian, MS 7 8 1 semi-automatic rifle, 1 shotgun 08/01/2002 Washington, D.C., et al. 10 3 1 AR-15, 1 handgun 08/26/2002 Rutledge, AL 6 0 1 shotgun 02/04/2002 Winslow Township NJ, et al. 6 1 1 handgun 08/30/2001 Sioux City, IA 7 0 1 hammer, 1 knife 08/20/2001 Sacramento, CA 7 0 1 knife 12/26/2000 Wakefield, MA 7 0 1 AK-47, 1 handgun, 1 shotgun 09/04/2000 Ava, OH 6 0 1 handgun 03/25/2000 Martinsville, IN 7 1 1 vehicle 11/02/1999 Honolulu, HI 7 0 1 handgun 09/15/1999 Fort Worth, TX 7 7 2 handguns 07/27/1999 Atlanta, GA 13 13 4 handguns, 1 hammer 07/12/1999 Atlanta, GA 7 1 1 handgun 04/20/1999 Columbine, CO 15 24 1 semi-automatic rifle, 1 handgun, 2 shotguns
Aside from the fact that, obviously, an AR-15 wasn't used in Columbine, let's notice that very few of these mass killings feature an assault weapon of any kind. In fact, the highest body count belongs to a gunman who used only two handguns.
<long, frustrated pause>
Okay. Here's the thing. I know it's a shocker, but... brace yourself.
Canada has more than one murder a year.
Let's investigate this. First, Canada has about one third of the number of guns per capita. Not one third total. Second, there are actually around 600 homicides a year, around a third of which are using firearms. Third, most of those are handgun homicides, just like in the U.S.
Semi-automatic means that each time the trigger is pulled, a single round is fired, just like a handgun. And something having more impact than a handgun means that it's not designed for hunting? This just gets better and better.
People "want" these firearms for the same reason they want many other different kinds of firearms. For sport marksmanship mostly, with a little bit of hunting and home defense in the mix because... they can.
And hunters use semi-automatic rifles all the time.
You see, there's a problem where simple math is concerned when it corresponds to humans. There's nothing simple about humans. As with broad, sweeping generalizations, the problem is that you tend to ignore the other factors involved.