Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Hyrro]

Harsher penalties for straw purchasers as well as more liability for gun purchasers when the weapon is used in a crime.



What do you propose that would?

A straw sale already involves a 10 year jail sentence with a minimum of $250,000 in fines. Can't get much harsher than that.

And I couldn't tell you how we keep guns out of criminals hands, nothing I have heard proposed could do it and nothing I can think of could do it. You can't stop people from doing something by enacting laws, you just cannot keep track of even a small percentage of the things it effects.

[Deadvolcanoes]

I don't think he has to propose anything. Just attempt to disprove and refute your arguments.

Huh? This isn't a high school debate class, its a discussion thread. I'm here to express my opinion and to listen to others.

[Thephayul]

A pittance eh? Please tell that to the Virgina Tech, Aurora Colorado, Gabrielle Giffords, and the Sandy Hook victims. Pittance used in this context shows you are extremely ignorant to the facts.

You all want a pretty easy fix to the current problem and the entire issue of mass shootings that have happened in the past 10 years which got sensationalized? MAKE MENTAL HEALTH PROVIDERS OBLIGATED TO REPORT THEIR PATIENTS WHEN THEY ARE A THREAT TO THEMSELVES OR OTHERS. <---- Now come tell me they can't profile people in that sense and I will tell you that you are full of hot air.

Not going to happen man, people need to demonize something, and guns are the easiest target in this issue. This whole thing is nothing more then an attempt at giving people a false sense of security

[vaeevictiss]

Did Obamacare ever have 90% opposition?

Because more background checks has something like 80-90% in favor.

---------- Post added 2013-04-18 at 02:16 AM ----------



So what preapproved polls are the real ones?

Would these be the same "unskewed" polls that showed a landslide for Romney?

Look, if you actually believe 90% of people agreed on this, then i really cannot help you. Gun owners especially do not agree with this. I know this because i am very involved in the firearm community. People do not support background checks because no one has any damn reason to know what you own. Just because you want to own something for personal reasons, doesnt give anyone a reason to know about it. Its not the people subject to these checks that go around and murder people.

Now with the new medical restrictions, they are just finding new reasons.

The problem with all these gun laws they are coming up with, is that they only punish the law abiding.

[Wells]

Look, if you actually believe 90% of people agreed on this, then i really cannot help you. Gun owners especially do not agree with this. I know this because i am very involved in the firearm community. People do not support background checks because no one has any damn reason to know what you own. Just because you want to own something for personal reasons, doesnt give anyone a reason to know about it. Its not the people subject to these checks that go around and murder people.

Now with the new medical restrictions, they are just finding new reasons.

The problem with all these gun laws they are coming up with, is that the only punish the law abiding.

I'll ask again what numbers you're basing your claims off of.

[Deadvolcanoes]

And I couldn't tell you how we keep guns out of criminals hands, nothing I have heard proposed could do it and nothing I can think of could do it. You can't stop people from doing something by enacting laws, you just cannot keep track of even a small percentage of the things it effects.

So you don't know what would stop criminals from obtaining firearms but you definitely know what wouldn't stop criminals.from obtaining a firearm?

And you can stop people from doing something by enacting laws. It happens every single day. I mean shit, you could stop law abiding citizens from unknowingly selling firearms to criminals privately by requiring a background check.

---------- Post added 2013-04-17 at 10:38 PM ----------

People do not support background checks because no one has any damn reason to know what you own.

That's a registry, which is illegal, not a background check.

The problem with all these gun laws they are coming up with, is that they only punish the law abiding.

And the 600k criminals in the past 14 years that failed a background check and were denied purchase.

[Hyrro]

So you don't know what would stop criminals from obtaining firearms but you definitely know what wouldn't stop criminals.from obtaining a firearm?

And you can stop people from doing something by enacting laws. It happens every single day. I mean shit, you could stop law abiding citizens from unknowingly selling firearms to criminals privately by requiring a background check.

And universal background checks will keep illegal guns out of criminals hands how? how will the gov know if I owned a certain gun at a certain time then sold it to someone without a background check? the inherit truthfulness of a criminal? They can't even keep up with their laws now, what on earth makes you think a new law would be any different.

[BEYR]

So you don't know what would stop criminals from obtaining firearms but you definitely know what wouldn't stop criminals.from obtaining a firearm?

And you can stop people from doing something by enacting laws. It happens every single day. I mean shit, you could stop law abiding citizens from unknowingly selling firearms to criminals privately by requiring a background check.

Everything that has been thrown out as a measure to reduce gun violence is a law on the books both federally and in every state. This isn't an exaggeration. These laws are not enforced. Especially on the federal level, where straw purchases are supposed to be handled. And its not because the NRA is magically making the ATF worthless. Federal prosecutors refuse to try the cases. In fact, if you look at all the areas in the country with absurd violent crime rates (Chicago, DC, Detroit, etc...) you'll find that the arrests are usually there, but the prosecutors wont try them. So explain to me, please, how adding more laws to make something that is already illegal illegal again, which will be criminally underused by state and federal prosecutors supposed to help reduce violent crime?

[Thephayul]

Everything that has been thrown out as a measure to reduce gun violence is a law on the books both federally and in every state. This isn't an exaggeration. These laws are not enforced. Especially on the federal level, where straw purchases are supposed to be handled. And its not because the NRA is magically making the ATF worthless. Federal prosecutors refuse to try the cases. In fact, if you look at all the areas in the country with absurd violent crime rates (Chicago, DC, Detroit, etc...) you'll find that the arrests are usually there, but the prosecutors wont try them. So explain to me, please, how adding more laws to make something that is already illegal illegal again, which will be criminally underused by state and federal prosecutors supposed to help reduce violent crime?

I've asked this time and time again, but no answer yet

[Deadvolcanoes]

And universal background checks will keep illegal guns out of criminals hands how? how will the gov know if I owned a certain gun at a certain time then sold it to someone without a background check? the inherit truthfulness of a criminal? They can't even keep up with their laws now, what on earth makes you think a new law would be any different.

It's not a crime for a law abiding citizen to unknowingly sell a firearm to a criminal. If we mandate background checks on private sales, this would practically cease to occur. There's very little burden placed on law enforcement. Let's just stop law abiding citizens from selling guns to criminals unknowingly.

[Todgruppe]

These are some nice spoon-fed lines straight from the NRA.

You mean anti-gun policy makers?

[Zechs-cenarius]

So you don't know what would stop criminals from obtaining firearms but you definitely know what wouldn't stop criminals.from obtaining a firearm?

And you can stop people from doing something by enacting laws. It happens every single day. I mean shit, you could stop law abiding citizens from unknowingly selling firearms to criminals privately by requiring a background check.

---------- Post added 2013-04-17 at 10:38 PM ----------



That's a registry, which is illegal, not a background check.



And the 600k criminals in the past 14 years that failed a background check and were denied purchase.

But of those 600k less than 5k were reported for prosecution and even less actually getting punished. The lack of enforcement of current laws is the problem. You can not change that with even more laws if the current ones are not being enforced.

***Edit*** sorry the less than 5k reported were statistics brought in from 2010 but still outlines the overall problem of enforcement.

[Grummgug]

It's not a crime for a law abiding citizen to unknowingly sell a firearm to a criminal. If we mandate background checks on private sales, this would practically cease to occur. There's very little burden placed on law enforcement. Let's just stop law abiding citizens from selling guns to criminals unknowingly.

Neither Lanza nor Holmes had a criminal record prior to their shooting sprees. I don't see how this helps.

[Hyrro]

It's not a crime for a law abiding citizen to unknowingly sell a firearm to a criminal. If we mandate background checks on private sales, this would practically cease to occur. There's very little burden placed on law enforcement. Let's just stop law abiding citizens from selling guns to criminals unknowingly.

You must not get what I am saying, a universal background check system would be more worthless than the current unprosecuted laws we have now because there would be no way of enforcing it without a registration.

[Wells]

You must not get what I am saying, a universal background check system would be more worthless than the current unprosecuted laws we have now because there would be no way of enforcing it without a registration.

So if you need a gun registry to enforce more background checks how do you think the current ones are functioning?

[THE Bigzoman]

Neither Lanza nor Holmes had a criminal record prior to their shooting sprees. I don't see how this helps.

Already has been directly pointed out and indirectly by me. Conversation at this point is a full circle.

[Wells]

Already has been directly pointed out and indirectly by me. Conversation at this point is a full circle.

I don't see why it matters. If we accept that background checks are a good thing then they should be universal.

[OmegaManHester]

This bill was smoke and mirrors and challenged the constitution, It's your citizen right to bare arms w/o having to jump through hoops in order to invoke that right.

I would be on board to allow any pistol to skip the registration process altogether.

[BEYR]

I don't see why it matters. If we accept that background checks are a good thing then they should be universal.

Maybe the scope of the issue is being lost here. Lets say there is a commercial farm. That farm has to follow any number of state federal and local mandates to operate and sell their produce. now lats say you grow green beans in your back yard. Your neighbor would like to buy some off of you. What's being proposed is that you would have to follow all of the mandates that the commercial farm does or you would be a felon.

[Felya]

This bill was smoke and mirrors and challenged the constitution, It's your citizen right to bare arms w/o having to jump through hoops in order to invoke that right.

I would be on board to allow any pistol to skip the registration process altogether.

Does the constitution stop at pistol? It is saying 'arms' which include nuclear weapons. You are against the constitution now?