Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Wildtree]

Wildtree, looks like you're describing a genocidal government rather than merely a tyrannical one.



They can't kill all 250 million Americans if everyone is armed and even if they did, they'd have nobody to exploit any further! Tyrannies don't want to exterminate their populations, they want to subdue them. But you can't subdue an armed population. It's liberty or death. All or nothing.

There is your essential flaw...
250 million Americans. What number does that refer to? Total population? That's pretty much exactly 312 million as of right now. And that includes every living body, The old, the children, the disabled, the immigrants, legal and illegal, everyone...
So your total number strips down very fast.. You can cut it below 50%..
And from there now try to figure out how many actually believe that bullshit of a tyrannical government. You are hopelessly outnumbered.

[Wilfire]

Well, guns make it impossible for government to abuse people, so an armed population = no shit will be tolerated. So taking away weapons = making it easier for government to control the population

[Deleted]

Well, guns make it impossible for government to abuse people, so an armed population = no shit will be tolerated. So taking away weapons = making it easier for government to control the population

How is Somalia working out?

[Porcell]

How is Somalia working out?

I don't know, what the fuck is going on in Somalia? How about being a bit less cryptic and "I gotcha" and instead explain what you are talking about?

@Wildtree, And can we please stop talking about drone strikes on Americans? I'll believe that when I see it. If nothing else, the Government turning military arms on the populous does nothing but empower a rebellion, assuming you can actually get the military guys to pull that trigger. I'd wager that you'd get more descent in the ranks, assuming commanders would even give that order. I see the situation playing out WAY differently than you do.

[Deleted]

I don't know, what the fuck is going on in Somalia? How about being a bit less cryptic and "I gotcha" and instead explain what you are talking about?

@Wildtree, And can we please stop talking about drone strikes on Americans? I'll believe that when I see it. If nothing else, the Government turning military arms on the populous does nothing but empower a rebellion, assuming you can actually get the military guys to pull that trigger. I'd wager that you'd get more descent in the ranks, assuming commanders would even give that order. I see the situation playing out WAY differently than you do.

How can you not know about Somalia?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12285365

Basically the citizens were armed with whatever they liked, they toppled a corrupt Government but at the same time created an anarchist state with no one having enough strength to take power.

A corrupt Government is better than no Government at all, having firearms to topple a tyrant is useless if you do not have a plan to clean up the mess when you are done.

[Svifnymr]

Maybe we could declare war on bears? Like, just have a bear hunting season that never ends? And perhaps classify anthrax as a hunting weapon?

Alaska has bears. Alaska has oil.

Let's invade Alaska!

[Porcell]

How can you not know about Somalia?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12285365

Basically the citizens were armed with whatever they liked, they toppled a corrupt Government but at the same time created an anarchist state with no one having enough strength to take power.

A corrupt Government is better than no Government at all, having firearms to topple a tyrant is useless if you do not have a plan to clean up the mess when you are done.

Okay. And that has absolutely no relevance or parallels to the United States, so what's your point? It's a third-world country with 10 million people.
[I liked the little "Shame on you for not knowing about Somolia" jab. I don't give two fucks about the other 50 African countries that I can hardly name, let alone tell you what their current government status is. It's irrelevant. Poor industrialization, deserts, warring tribes, famine, uncontrolled birth rates, slums, poor economies. I really don't care about Africa.]

[FusedMass]

Thought I'd share this



The First 3D-Printed Gun Has Been Fired (VIDEO)

The world's first 3D printed gun fired its first shot on Sunday, according to this video released by Defense Distributed, the controversial company pushing for D-I-Y weapons.

Cody Wilson, of Defense Distributed, the company behind The Liberator, told the BBC that he is not concerned with the potential harm the gun could cause. He said, "I recognise the tool might be used to harm other people - that's what the tool is - it's a gun. But I don't think that's a reason to not do it - or a reason not to put it out there."

Defense Distributed's goals, as displayed on its website, are the following:

To defend the civil liberty of popular access to arms as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and affirmed by the United States Supreme Court, through facilitating global access to, and the collaborative production of, information and knowledge related to the 3D printing of arms; and to publish and distribute, at no cost to the public, such information and knowledge in promotion of the public interest.
Though 3D printing is still a fairly nascent technology, its growth is expected to be widespread. Staples expects to offer them in stores next month. Anyone interested in building a gun, then, could go to Defense Distributed's site and download the CAD file to get started.

The worst part? It's legal. Donna Sellers of the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, told the BBC that "a person can manufacture a firearm for their own use" in the U.S.

The horror of 3D printed guns stands in sharp contrast to some of the more amazing benefits 3D printing could bring, including the ability to revolutionize medicine. Is it worth the risk?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3222669.html

[Gemini Sunrise]

The worst part? It's legal. Donna Sellers of the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, told the BBC that "a person can manufacture a firearm for their own use" in the U.S.

You mean they could do something they already could do legally here? OH THE HORROR!!!!

[Porcell]

The worst part? It's legal. Donna Sellers of the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, told the BBC that "a person can manufacture a firearm for their own use" in the U.S.

Worst part, best part... tomato tomahto.

I like its namesake, by the way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FP-45_Liberator
The concept of a Liberator pistol is that they were cheap, easy to mass produce, and would be used by a resistance against the enemy to "liberate" them of their arms, which the resistance could then pick up and use as their own.
Now, granted these WW2 Liberator pistols never saw the light of combat or were used in this way, the concept is still pretty sound, in that hypothetical doomsday scenario.

[Kujako]

The worst part? It's legal. Donna Sellers of the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, told the BBC that "a person can manufacture a firearm for their own use" in the U.S.

Still nothing that couldn't have been done cheaper out of metal with a desktop CNC machine. But because it's "3D printed" everyone is all worked up over it.

[Wildtree]

I don't know, what the fuck is going on in Somalia? How about being a bit less cryptic and "I gotcha" and instead explain what you are talking about?

@Wildtree, And can we please stop talking about drone strikes on Americans? I'll believe that when I see it. If nothing else, the Government turning military arms on the populous does nothing but empower a rebellion, assuming you can actually get the military guys to pull that trigger. I'd wager that you'd get more descent in the ranks, assuming commanders would even give that order. I see the situation playing out WAY differently than you do.

Alright, you want to take drones out of the equation in case of a real confrontation. Yet you advocate that you need to be armed against your own government?
Where does that make ANY sense at all?
What exactly tells you that the for you oh so dangerous government will resort to only the same weapons arsenal you have available?
You see the scenario sure play out different than I do, because you are approaching it from a delusional angle, that ignores every history on the mechanisms all tyrannic regimes share. All of them have ONE thing in common. They all are/were military regimes. Your assumption is highly debunked right there through history itself. There WILL BE enough armed and ready to put the military arsenal to use. And no tyrant ever had a lot of scruples to put it to extreme use.

And as far as drone strikes on Americans, today already...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3141688.html

[Deleted]

The worst part? It's legal. Donna Sellers of the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, told the BBC that "a person can manufacture a firearm for their own use" in the U.S.

What's so bad about being able to make your own guns ? You are still limited by the same laws as if you bought the guns, no full autos, can't be non detectable, etc.

[Porcell]

You see the scenario sure play out different than I do, because you are approaching it from a delusional angle, that ignores every history on the mechanisms all tyrannic regimes share. All of them have ONE thing in common. They all are/were military regimes. Your assumption is highly debunked right there through history itself. There WILL BE enough armed and ready to put the military arsenal to use. And no tyrant ever had a lot of scruples to put it to extreme use.

I don't think it's at all delusional to suggest that at least half of the military personnel would refuse to fight against Americans, and that the armed population of America would stand a very good chance against the ~2 Million people in the Military. [Again, talking about some crazy highly hypothetical situation.]

Again, this discussion isn't anything more than mental masturbation. It's as useful a discussion as talking about who would win if Canada invaded France, or if my dad can beat up your dad. It would never get to the point where the US Military would be turned, full force, onto the American population. It's stupid to even talk about.

[Grizzly Willy]

What's so bad about being able to make your own guns ? You are still limited by the same laws as if you bought the guns, no full autos, can't be non detectable, etc.

I thought criminals don't follow the law?

[john-scar]

gun control lost close the thread

[Deleted]

I thought criminals don't follow the law?

There are lots of better ways to get a gun illegaly than printing a shitty, innacurate, one-shot pistol. The only concern would be for metal detectors, but you'd probably be better off with a ceramic knife or some explosive.

[Kalyyn]

Alaska has bears. Alaska has oil.

Let's invade Alaska!

Depends on whether the Alaskans are with us or against us. Those dudes hunt wolves from helicopters. It's literally a state where everyone is Liam Neeson. I didn't sign up to deal with that shit...

[Wildtree]

It would never get to the point where the US Military would be turned, full force, onto the American population. It's stupid to even talk about.

That means essentially that the argument of a need to be armed to build a counter force against a tyrannical government is moot.

And that's exactly what we keep saying. The US government will not turn against it's own people. That is a fear mongering propaganda, made up and controlled by the Gun Lobbyists.
Read to whom and what I even replied in the beginning. To someone making exact that claim.

[Kujako]

There are lots of better ways to get a gun illegaly than printing a shitty, innacurate, one-shot pistol. The only concern would be for metal detectors, but you'd probably be better off with a ceramic knife or some explosive.

Frankly, you could make a zip gun (which is in essence what this is) simpler and cheaper with parts from a hardware store. It's more or less been a non issue so far in history.