Poll: Do you Support Assault Weapons Ban?

  1. #10721
    Cant ban guns.. americans love there pew pew's, and ill admit those cinema & school shootings are pretty entertaining!

    [Infracted]
    Last edited by Radux; 2013-02-12 at 06:57 PM.

  2. #10722
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    They deter crime as it is in the act (vast majority of defendants simply brandishing the weapon), but there isn't sufficient data to prove that the presence of guns stops crime either. It's a simple fact that guns make it easier to both commit crime and defend yourself from them. There is no data to suggest the are a motivation for or against crime, except in the cases of hot vs. cold burglaries. There is data that suggests that criminals without guns are dissuaded by good people with guns, but that is almost never the situation. More often than not, if responsible people can get guns, so can criminals; albeit in different ways. It would then seem to be an offsetting situation.

    I'm sure you saw the link earlier ITT that showed where criminals acquire their firearms.
    I'm sure I saw it as well, but I can't recall the data or the implications off the top of my head.

  3. #10723
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dillon View Post
    Exercising a right doesn't need justification.
    Says who? I certainly don't. I'd like to see a contemporary justification for a 17th century right.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  4. #10724
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Says who? I certainly don't. I'd like to see a contemporary justification for a 17th century right.
    Not a problem, name the 17th century right you would like a contemporary justification for. (The 17th century was the century that lasted from January 1, 1601, to December 31, 1700) If you meant a different century that will not be a problem either just post it.

  5. #10725
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    Not a problem, name the 17th century right you would like a contemporary justification for. (The 17th century was the century that lasted from January 1, 1601, to December 31, 1700) If you meant a different century that will not be a problem either just post it.
    The Second Amendment is just a rewriting of the Bill of Rights, written in 1689. I think that fits in those dates, doesn't it?
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  6. #10726
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    The Second Amendment is just a rewriting of the Bill of Rights, written in 1689. I think that fits in those dates, doesn't it?
    Are you asking me? The Bill of Rights, which is actually the first 10 amendments to the US Constitution, was written by James Madison after the Constitution was ratified on June 21, 1788 and obviously, before he presented his proposal on June 8, 1789 during the First Congress. The US Congress approved 12 of these amendments on September 25, 1789 but the first two amendments were not ratified.

    I guess you meant this bill of rights lol,

    The Bill of Rights of 1689 was a document that limited the power of British monarchs. It was presented by Parliament, the law-making body of Great Britain, to King William III (1650–1702) and his wife Queen Mary II (1662–1694) before they took the throne in 1689. The result of a long struggle between previous kings and Parliament, the Bill of Rights was written after King James II (1633–1701) was removed from power in 1688. The document not only described certain civil and political rights and liberties as "true, ancient, and indubitable [too evident to be doubted]," but it also specified how monarchs would succeed to the throne. In addition, the bill stated that no Roman Catholic (member of the Christian religion based in Rome, Italy, and headed by a pope) could rule the country. Since the Bill of Rights served to assert the role of Parliament in the government of England, it is considered one of the most significant documents of British law.
    Last edited by lockedout; 2013-02-12 at 09:41 PM.

  7. #10727
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    The Bill of Rights applied to the colonies, Locked Out. The right to bear arms was just rewritten for the American Bill of Rights - the majority of them were, often with some mild expansions.

    All the arguments for why it exists are almost literally explicitly written out in the text of the Bill of Rights.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  8. #10728
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Louisiana doesn't border Mexico and you've provided no data to back up the idea that our gun violence is propped up by Mexicans.

    Localized gun control is not very effective. See: Chicago. And that's still irrelevant, point stands. Louisiana is awash in guns and very dangerous.

    I never said this.
    First off, yes you did, you said we're "awash" with guns.

    Second, the "demographics", man.

    Data? I don't see you ever providing data.
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  9. #10729
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    There's really no correlation between the amount of guns and overall crime.
    Should probably go back and read the rest of that conversation, because I never said there was.

    What the presence of guns does seem to do though is make crime much more lethal.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 02:01 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sicarus View Post
    First off, yes you did, you said we're "awash" with guns.

    Second, the "demographics", man.

    Data? I don't see you ever providing data.
    Awash doesn't mean everyone has a gun.

    I don't really see how blaming the crime in the area on the fact that there is a lot of black people is anything other than racism.

    Don't divert, if you make a claim back it up.

  10. #10730
    I am Murloc! GreatOak's Avatar
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    I wonder why Obama doesn't even understand why these things are going on in parts of our city.

    In the fell clutch of circumstance
    I have not winced nor cried aloud.
    Under the bludgeonings of chance
    My head is bloody, but unbowed.

  11. #10731
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    I wonder why Obama doesn't even understand why these things are going on in parts of our city.
    I think he knows about the things described in the video, but fact is that he can't really do anything as long as a large group americans still vote for the republican party.

  12. #10732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yilar View Post
    I think he knows about the things described in the video, but fact is that he can't really do anything as long as a large group americans still vote for the republican party.
    And this friends is why Euros needs to stay the fuck out of American politics!
    "Oh, wretched ephemeral race, children of chance and misery, why do you compel me to tell you what it would be more expedient for you not to hear? What is best of all is utterly beyond your reach; not to be born, not to be, to be nothing. But the second best for you is --- to die soon." Silenus

  13. #10733
    I am Murloc! GreatOak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todgruppe View Post
    And this friends is why Euros needs to stay the fuck out of American politics!
    I don't agree with the opinion, but why? Is someone inherently precluded from being knowledgable about American politics by virtue of being Danish/European?
    In the fell clutch of circumstance
    I have not winced nor cried aloud.
    Under the bludgeonings of chance
    My head is bloody, but unbowed.

  14. #10734
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    I don't agree with the opinion, but why? Is someone inherently precluded from being knowledgable about American politics by virtue of being Danish/European?
    Politics? No, they wouldn't know the entirety of "culture" and what is/not normal. Many Americans would probably agree with the sentiment, but many would also agree the opposite. While he implies, other party as gun toting, uneducated, rednecks. Veiled insults, all over this thread.
    "Oh, wretched ephemeral race, children of chance and misery, why do you compel me to tell you what it would be more expedient for you not to hear? What is best of all is utterly beyond your reach; not to be born, not to be, to be nothing. But the second best for you is --- to die soon." Silenus

  15. #10735
    Reeva Steenkamp... another victim of private gun ownership and a domestic dispute. And this time from Oscar Pistorius.

    Guns don't protect. Guns make killing easy. Which is why Reeva Steenkamp was shot four times in head and once in the chest.

    A gun in the hands of even an Olympic Hero, turned him into a barbaric woman-killer.

    It's seriously time to begin the long path to a future where we confiscate all these things and melt them down.

  16. #10736
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    I hear anecdotal evidence is reliable.

  17. #10737
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly Willy View Post
    I hear anecdotal evidence is reliable.
    Whatever it takes to take guns out of everyone's hands.

    Or let me put it another way. Gun owners have one more thing in common with Al Qaeda, Hamas and Hezbollah than non-gun owners. Their love of the gun. And I think it's a pretty big thing.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by mmoc58a2a4b64e; 2013-02-15 at 03:38 PM.

  18. #10738
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    Whatever it takes to take guns out of everyone's hands.

    Or let me put it another way. Gun owners have one more thing in common with Al Qaeda, Hamas and Hezbollah than non-gun owners. Their love of the gun. And I think it's a pretty big thing.
    Al Qaida and other terrorists have something in common with people who get their panties in a twist over gun ownership: They're cowards.

  19. #10739
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    Whatever it takes to take guns out of everyone's hands.

    Or let me put it another way. Gun owners have one more thing in common with Al Qaeda, Hamas and Hezbollah than non-gun owners. Their love of the gun. And I think it's a pretty big thing.
    Legal gun owners compared to a terrorist organization...that's pretty sound logic.

  20. #10740
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    Whatever it takes to take guns out of everyone's hands.

    Or let me put it another way. Gun owners have one more thing in common with Al Qaeda, Hamas and Hezbollah than non-gun owners. Their love of the gun. And I think it's a pretty big thing.
    Logical fallacies only undermine your position. Nobody takes your argument seriously when you can't commit to some amount of intellectual honesty. Hell, you're starting to mimic the GOP.

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