View Poll Results: Do you Support Assault Weapons Ban?

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  • Yes

    2,147 61.59%
  • No

    1,339 38.41%
  1. #14441
    Scarab Lord GreatOak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    I don't watch the youtube videos people post on here.
    Um, okay then

    I love videos, even if they're ones I don't agree with. I've watched every single one Fused linked ITT
    "It woudl be funny as hell if the abodinal snoawman walk in the background" -Confucius

  2. #14442
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Um, okay then

    I love videos, even if they're ones I don't agree with. I've watched every single one Fused linked ITT
    Frankly 99% of the time they're just another forum post except its a guy talking to a camera and making me spend a lot more time listening rather just writing their own post that I can read quickly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  3. #14443
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    I don't watch the youtube videos people post on here.
    That one actually is worthwhile, but I wish it came in just a clean graphical form. Youtube just chews up too much time for too much useless crap. The same thing could be explained with two graphs and a single paragraph of writing.

  4. #14444
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    That one actually is worthwhile, but I wish it came in just a clean graphical form. Youtube just chews up too much time for too much useless crap. The same thing could be explained with two graphs and a single paragraph of writing.
    Frankly if the point is worth making I expect people to make it themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  5. #14445
    Scarab Lord Buckwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Frankly 99% of the time they're just another forum post except its a guy talking to a camera and making me spend a lot more time listening rather just writing their own post that I can read quickly.
    You should watch them. The guy's channel is called Admist the Noise. Not just saying that because he argues my point, but the guy's arguments are based on numbers and imperical data that people can't ignore.

    And Ben Swann (an idependant journalist from OH) determined that if you break down the UK violent crime rates, it still turns out to over 700 per 100k in the UK. So the rate is still higher.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-24 at 06:08 PM ----------

    The point he made is what I linked from pastebin

  6. #14446
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckwald View Post
    Just quoting this because I laughed. I was spot on with your response. No substance, I'm sure you feel happy about that. Thanks!
    To be fair, the argument he was making wasn't ad hominem since he wasn't attacking his opponent's character.

    I think the problem with the argument that we shouldn't pass this law because criminals don't follow them is that the point isn't explicitly stated, so the assumed meaning is that laws are pointless. The actual argument is that we shouldn't pass laws that inconvenience law abiding citizens while having a negligible effect on crime. That would be a more compelling argument.

    Deadvolcanoes's argument regarding background checks had a similar issue; it was assumed that he meant that background checks prevent criminals from getting guns period, but the intended point was that they prevent criminals from getting guns when background checks are used during the criminals attempt at purchasing a gun.

  7. #14447
    Scarab Lord Jaxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todgruppe View Post
    So, did the entirety of people miss or ignore the video someone linked of a guy who did the study of comparison of UK's vs USA murder rates, and the gun laws at the time?

    1900: ~.7 murders per 100k (UK, use ~ because it's either that or .8 forgot which.), ~8 per 100k USA.

    Formation of gun laws start about this time in both USA and UK.

    Now: ~1.2 per 100k UK, 3.9 per 100k US?

    All anyone saw is UK < USA? The guy in video points it out, clearly more then herpadep ban guns, less crime, profit.
    The numbers are close:
    http://www.ucrdatatool.gov/Search/Cr...dsInOneVar.cfm (US Department of Justice link)

    But he doesn't take in to account that the murder rate in this country has been going down for over 30 years now.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-24 at 11:41 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    I don't watch the youtube videos people post on here.
    To be fair, you post a fair amount yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imadraenei View Post
    You can find that unbiased view somewhere between Atlantis and that unicorn farm down the street, just off Interstate √(-1).

  8. #14448
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxi View Post
    To be fair, you post a fair amount yourself.
    There's a difference between posting a youtube video as an example to back up one's post and posting a youtube video as essentially a "this" post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  9. #14449
    Elemental Lord THE Bigzoman's Avatar
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    Jesus christ this thread is still going on.

  10. #14450
    Quote Originally Posted by Decklan View Post
    Not comparing it to murder laws, although I can see where you'd make that mistake.

    No, it's pointing out the glaring fallacy of saying "We shouldn't make laws because people will break them anyway." Your argument is a straw man, a distraction from the real point of the argument being made. Nobody is disagreeing with you, but you seem to think that because gun bans and murder laws are in some ways different that somehow patches up the glaring holes in the "We shouldn't make laws because people will break them anyway," argument. It doesn't.

    Also, I'm not sure there's been much talk of gun bans other than from you for the last several pages. You seem oddly stuck on it. Right now the primary discussion is about background checks.
    You are very literally comparing someones comment about the AWB to murder laws. Ironic because THAT is a straw man. Murder laws have nothing to do with banning guns.

    I didn't bring up the AWB again. Don't lie, and if you are unsure, check instead of spreading slander.
    Last edited by Lemonpartyfan; 2013-03-25 at 07:08 AM.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  11. #14451
    I am Murloc! breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigzoman20 View Post
    Jesus christ this thread is still going on.
    that would be because this is the gun control thread. its one of the hot button issues of current politics

  12. #14452
    Bloodsail Admiral
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    That one actually is worthwhile, but I wish it came in just a clean graphical form. Youtube just chews up too much time for too much useless crap. The same thing could be explained with two graphs and a single paragraph of writing.
    To be fair, he does use graphs, but has a lot of useless commentary. Don't know if everyone can extrapolate the relevant information though so, /shrug.

    Don't know if he made those graphs or found them.
    "Oh, wretched ephemeral race, children of chance and misery, why do you compel me to tell you what it would be more expedient for you not to hear? What is best of all is utterly beyond your reach; not to be born, not to be, to be nothing. But the second best for you is --- to die soon." Silenus

  13. #14453
    I got my 1st rifle last week, that gun store was packed with people. The 1st help wanted sign I've seen in a long time.

  14. #14454
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeydown View Post
    I got my 1st rifle last week, that gun store was packed with people. The 1st help wanted sign I've seen in a long time.
    /puttingontinfoilhat

    In before, "anti-gun" people are actually on the board of Magpull/Beretta/Barrett/Armalite/etc, in Congress.

    /hatoff
    "Oh, wretched ephemeral race, children of chance and misery, why do you compel me to tell you what it would be more expedient for you not to hear? What is best of all is utterly beyond your reach; not to be born, not to be, to be nothing. But the second best for you is --- to die soon." Silenus

  15. #14455
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    I do recall the joke: gun control, the most effective stimulus effort.

  16. #14456
    Quote Originally Posted by Decklan View Post
    That still doesn't make "Criminals won't follow laws so why make them" a sound argument. Doesn't mean a gun ban is necessarily a good idea, but we need some better gun control laws right now.
    Additional gun-control laws are redundancy's on existing laws. Some of those existing laws, such as lying on your gun-permit application, are widely acknowledged to not be enforced. (One police chief referred to it as a "paper work" law that wasn't worth the time.) And virtually all of the existing gun laws are ignored by criminals who want to get a gun. So, then, why would doubling up on the laws change that? It hasn't for any other crimes.

    Look back at every mass-shooting we've had in the last, say, twenty years. Every single shooter violated multiple laws BEFORE they even pulled the trigger. In almost every case these "new" laws would NOT have stopped them. In at least one case the shooter used a "straw buyer" who lied on an application, breaking that law police don't like to enforce.

    Remember what I've said.

    These aren't new laws. They're redundant, reworded, and enhanced copies of existing laws. And even Biden has admitted, they won't stop another Sandy Hook. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=covBtaBoR1g)

    Meanwhile the one constant in all these shootings, the one thing that could be pointed to as the cause, the failing mental health of the shooters, is being ignored.
    Last edited by Twotonsteak; 2013-03-25 at 02:40 PM.

  17. #14457
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly Willy View Post
    I do recall the joke: gun control, the most effective stimulus effort.
    Yeah, banning things rarely works out very well. Portugal had drug problems, legalized everything, not so much anymore. Not saying that is best way to go with guns, but sometimes the appeal of things is that they are illegal, legalizing takes out the stigma, and makes them "boring".

    Our "Prohibition" and "War on Drugs", are also two glaring examples.
    "Oh, wretched ephemeral race, children of chance and misery, why do you compel me to tell you what it would be more expedient for you not to hear? What is best of all is utterly beyond your reach; not to be born, not to be, to be nothing. But the second best for you is --- to die soon." Silenus

  18. #14458
    Quote Originally Posted by Twotonsteak View Post
    Additional gun-control laws are redundancy's on existing laws. Some of those existing laws, such as lying on your gun-permit application, are widely acknowledged to not be enforced. (One police chief referred to it as a "paper work" law that wasn't worth the time.) And virtually all of the existing gun laws are ignored by criminals who want to get a gun. So, then, why would doubling up on the laws change that? It hasn't for any other crimes.

    Look back at every mass-shooting we've had in the last, say, twenty years. Every single shooter violated multiple laws BEFORE they even pulled the trigger. In almost every case these "new" laws would NOT have stopped them. In at least one case the shooter used a "straw buyer" who lied on an application, breaking that law police don't like to enforce.

    Remember what I've said.

    These aren't new laws. They're redundant, reworded, and enhanced copies of existing laws. And even Biden has admitted, they won't stop another Sandy Hook. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=covBtaBoR1g)

    Meanwhile the one constant in all these shootings, the one thing that could be pointed to as the cause, the failing mental health of the shooters, is being ignored.
    Yeah, but 'background checks stop criminals from getting guns!'
    Quote Originally Posted by Jevlin
    Why? Because fuck you, that's why.

    Every time you have a question that begins with "Why?" that is about what other people prefer to do with their own goddamn time, come back here, and reread the first row of this post. That will ALWAYS be the answer to your question. Have a nice day.

  19. #14459
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Nope Svif, gun dealers and makers have immunity from all forms of negligence suits except those that come from a product malfunctioning.

    OH and it they break the law.


    Its a bullshit level of protection that needs to go. No one else gets that level of protection.
    So you agree, they are only negligent when they are actually negligent (illegal trade or defective product) rather than when they produce a legal product that functions correctly?

  20. #14460
    The Lightbringer Deadvolcanoes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    Yeah, but 'background checks stop criminals from getting guns!'
    No you got it wrong.

    Background checks stop ALL criminals. Every single one.

    All you have to do is make background checks universal and every single criminal everywhere will be stopped from purchasing a gun. It's a no brainer.

    They will also stop ALL mass shootings, and ALL crime from occurring.

    Why can't people see that?
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

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