View Poll Results: Do you Support Assault Weapons Ban?

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  • Yes

    2,286 61.12%
  • No

    1,454 38.88%
  1. #43681
    Over 9000! Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Looks like I beat you to the punch, sport.
    I´m waiting.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Awwwwww-kward.
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    No, weak minded people commit suicide.
    What are weak minded people?
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    People who decide killing themselves is the solution to their problems.

  2. #43682
    Epic! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    If you could kindly point where I said "the study is correct" or "the study is true", that would be fantastic.
    The fallacy is not necessarily that something is true or not, the fallacy is that the word of a supposed authority without anything to back it up has argumentative merit.

    Your attempt to use the abstract by itself as if it had evidentiary value is an appeal to authority fallacy.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Albert Einstein
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    And unfortunately for every smart responsible person, there's at least one idiot that defies all logic.
    To prevent stupidity regulation needs to be in place.
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    I've been arguing for more restriction and regulation. I call it pro-gun regulation.

  3. #43683
    Over 9000! Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    The fallacy is not necessarily that something is true or not, the fallacy is that the word of a supposed authority without anything to back it up has argumentative merit.

    Your attempt to use the abstract by itself as if it had evidentiary value is an appeal to authority fallacy.
    Now, aren´t you happy you learned something?
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    No, weak minded people commit suicide.
    What are weak minded people?
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    People who decide killing themselves is the solution to their problems.

  4. #43684
    Epic! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    I´m waiting.
    Wow. You're just embarrassing yourself.

    Since you don't appear to have enough common sense to do so yourself, I'll direct your attention to the post immediately preceding the one in which you demanded that I point out the fallacy... in which I pointed out the fallacy:

    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Well, that's what makes it a fallacy. If he were putting forth something that we could actually attempt to rebut, then it would be a valid argumentative tool. But he's putting forth something that we can't even see to be able to rebut, and telling us that it's meaningful merely because the authority's word (abstract) says so. And then he'll tell us that it doesn't matter if we can see the methodology because we're not smart, capable, or trained enough to debate anything they say. Which is really just doubling down on the appeal to authority fallacy.
    Awkward doesn't even begin to describe it this time.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Albert Einstein
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    And unfortunately for every smart responsible person, there's at least one idiot that defies all logic.
    To prevent stupidity regulation needs to be in place.
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    I've been arguing for more restriction and regulation. I call it pro-gun regulation.

  5. #43685
    Over 9000! Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Awkward doesn't even begin to describe it this time.
    You´re right, it doesn´t. I´ve linked you the definition and you still insist on it. That´s quite hilarious.
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    No, weak minded people commit suicide.
    What are weak minded people?
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    People who decide killing themselves is the solution to their problems.

  6. #43686
    Epic! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Now, aren´t you happy you learned something?
    What are you going on about now? I already knew, apparently more than either you or PRE 9-11, what an appeal to authority fallacy is.

    I'm not sure how you get from me having to explain it to the both of you to somehow me having learned something new.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Albert Einstein
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    And unfortunately for every smart responsible person, there's at least one idiot that defies all logic.
    To prevent stupidity regulation needs to be in place.
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    I've been arguing for more restriction and regulation. I call it pro-gun regulation.

  7. #43687
    The Lightbringer PRE 9-11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    The fallacy is not necessarily that something is true or not, the fallacy is that the word of a supposed authority without anything to back it up has argumentative merit.
    No, that's not true at all. Arguments from authority always make a claim of truth. I haven't done that. I called the paper "highly relevant" because it's in a peer reviewed medical journal. There's nothing fallacious about that. At all.
    "(The Second Amendment) has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word 'fraud,' on the American public by special interest groups I have ever seen in my lifetime."

    -Former Chief Justice Warren Burger

  8. #43688
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    No, that's not true at all. Arguments from authority always make a claim of truth. I haven't done that. I called the paper "highly relevant" because it's in a peer reviewed medical journal. There's nothing fallacious about that. At all.
    Welp, clearly you didn't take the lesson to heart. Arguments from authority don't always make a claim of truth, though most do.

    What you don't seem to understand is that an appeal to authority fallacy says nothing about the veracity or falsity of the underlying assertion. The fallacy is in the use of a statement from authority towards that end in a logical argument. As such, it's a fallacy to accept the imprimatur of the authority as necessarily "relevant". It might be relevant, it might not. But taking the word of the authority in the absence of the actual proof of its relevancy is a fallacy, pure and simple.

    And please not that you didn't just say "relevant". You claimed that the study was "evidence":
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    More evidence that blah blah blah...
    As I pointed out, it's a fallacy to attribute evidentiary value to the abstract by itself, without access to the underlying data and methodology.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    You´re right, it doesn´t. I´ve linked you the definition and you still insist on it. That´s quite hilarious.
    You're acting like what you posted contradicts my explanation of how the fallacy was applied in this situation. Hilarious indeed.

    What's ironic is that I already had a copy of that wikipedia page open on another tab before you even linked it. I know exactly what an appeal to authority fallacy is, thanks.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Albert Einstein
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    And unfortunately for every smart responsible person, there's at least one idiot that defies all logic.
    To prevent stupidity regulation needs to be in place.
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    I've been arguing for more restriction and regulation. I call it pro-gun regulation.

  9. #43689
    Over 9000! Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    What's ironic is that I already had a copy of that wikipedia page open on another tab before you even linked it.
    Well you obviously didn´t read it. That´s quite ironic, you´re right.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Hilarious indeed.
    I doubt it´s worth the time trying to explain it to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    No, weak minded people commit suicide.
    What are weak minded people?
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    People who decide killing themselves is the solution to their problems.

  10. #43690
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Well you obviously didn´t read it. That´s quite ironic, you´re right. I doubt it´s worth the time trying to explain it to you.
    What's really hilarious is that I did read it, though I already knew it, and then I explained it ITT, all before you posted the first time, and yet you can't even attempt to articulate why you think I'm wrong.

    Aren't you the least bit embarrassed for using a 10-year-old's argument? "Ha, you're wrong, but I can't be bothered to explain why."
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Albert Einstein
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    And unfortunately for every smart responsible person, there's at least one idiot that defies all logic.
    To prevent stupidity regulation needs to be in place.
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    I've been arguing for more restriction and regulation. I call it pro-gun regulation.

  11. #43691
    Over 9000! Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    What's really hilarious is that I did read it, though I already knew it, and then I explained it ITT, all before you posted the first time, and yet you can't even attempt to articulate why you think I'm wrong.

    Aren't you the least bit embarrassed for using a 10-year-old's argument? "Ha, you're wrong, but I can't be bothered to explain why."
    I really thought you´d find it for yourself. That saying "here´s evidence" isn´t equivalent to "this is proof". Pre never claimed anything other than providing a link and saying it´s relevant. No claim of truth, rightness or verity because of who produced that study.
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    No, weak minded people commit suicide.
    What are weak minded people?
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    People who decide killing themselves is the solution to their problems.

  12. #43692
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    I really thought you´d find it for yourself. That saying "here´s evidence" isn´t equivalent to "this is proof". Pre never claimed anything other than providing a link and saying it´s relevant. No claim of truth, rightness or verity because of who produced that study.
    Clearly you don't bother reading other posts in this thread. I've already addressed this. Claiming that the abstract is either relevant or evidence is a logical fallacy, too.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Albert Einstein
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    And unfortunately for every smart responsible person, there's at least one idiot that defies all logic.
    To prevent stupidity regulation needs to be in place.
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    I've been arguing for more restriction and regulation. I call it pro-gun regulation.

  13. #43693
    Over 9000! Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Clearly you don't bother reading other posts in this thread. I've already addressed this. Claiming that the abstract is either relevant or evidence is a logical fallacy, too.
    So you´re claiming it´s not relevant or evidence based on?
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    No, weak minded people commit suicide.
    What are weak minded people?
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    People who decide killing themselves is the solution to their problems.

  14. #43694
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    So you´re claiming it´s not relevant or evidence based on?
    Are you kidding me? Read the many posts I've just made on the subject over the last page or two.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Albert Einstein
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    And unfortunately for every smart responsible person, there's at least one idiot that defies all logic.
    To prevent stupidity regulation needs to be in place.
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    I've been arguing for more restriction and regulation. I call it pro-gun regulation.

  15. #43695
    Over 9000! Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Are you kidding me? Read the many posts I've just made on the subject over the last page or two.
    ... Well at least you´re not claiming appeal to authority anymore, that´s progress. The logical fallacy i can agree on, since he didn´t read the thing, but as you also didn´t read it (wild guess here), you can´t claim it´s not relevant or evidence.

    On the other hand, we have a saying in german that roughly translates to "you can claim everything you want".
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    No, weak minded people commit suicide.
    What are weak minded people?
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    People who decide killing themselves is the solution to their problems.

  16. #43696
    Epic! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    ... Well at least you´re not claiming appeal to authority anymore, that´s progress. The logical fallacy i can agree on, since he didn´t read the thing, but as you also didn´t read it (wild guess here), you can´t claim it´s not relevant or evidence.
    No, clearly you still don't understand. It was an appeal to authority fallacy. And you missed the part where I said that the fact that it was a fallacy didn't mean that the study itself was necessarily wrong, irrelevant or not evidence.

    The fallacy is accepting the author's word (the abstract) as relevant or evidence in the logical argument that we're engaging in without seeing the actual data and/or methodology.

    Basically, using the author's word about the study to further PRE 9-11's argument is a logical fallacy. The study could be factual, or it could be erroneous, but either way, based on the rules of logic, we cannot simply take the author's word for it. We cannot imply that the author's word has weight, relevance, or use it as evidence, either.

    The data and methodology of the study is evidence. The abstract is not.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Albert Einstein
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    And unfortunately for every smart responsible person, there's at least one idiot that defies all logic.
    To prevent stupidity regulation needs to be in place.
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    I've been arguing for more restriction and regulation. I call it pro-gun regulation.

  17. #43697
    Over 9000! Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    The fallacy is accepting the author's word (the abstract) as relevant or evidence in the logical argument that we're engaging in without seeing the actual data and/or methodology.
    That´s simple not an appeal to authority. I don´t understand how you don´t see this.

    He can accept the author´s word all he wants, but unless he´s using it as an argument, he´s not appealing to authority.
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    No, weak minded people commit suicide.
    What are weak minded people?
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    People who decide killing themselves is the solution to their problems.

  18. #43698
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    He can accept the author´s word all he wants, but unless he´s using it as an argument, he´s not appealing to authority.
    Jesus. Read more carefully.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    The fallacy is accepting the author's word (the abstract) as relevant or evidence in the logical argument that we're engaging in without seeing the actual data and/or methodology.
    He's not just accepting it, he's claiming it as relevant to or evidence in the argument here. He posted the abstract link, and said "here is evidence". He attempted to use it as evidence to support his position in this argument. That's an appeal to authority fallacy. Just because he's not claiming that it's automatically true does not change the fact that he's using it in support of his argument.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Albert Einstein
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    And unfortunately for every smart responsible person, there's at least one idiot that defies all logic.
    To prevent stupidity regulation needs to be in place.
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    I've been arguing for more restriction and regulation. I call it pro-gun regulation.

  19. #43699
    Over 9000! Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    He's not just accepting it, he's claiming it as relevant to or evidence in the argument here. He posted the abstract link, and said "here is evidence". He attempted to use it as evidence to support his position in this argument. That's an appeal to authority fallacy. Just because he's not claiming that it's automatically true does not change the fact that he's using it in support of his argument.
    He never made an argument out of it! Get it in your head. You´re trying to read stuff into his posting of a link that´s just not there. You can´t use something to support your argument while not implying it´s true.
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    No, weak minded people commit suicide.
    What are weak minded people?
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    People who decide killing themselves is the solution to their problems.

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