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  1. #21
    Stood in the Fire Uniqed's Avatar
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    If they dont want to add physical reduce they could atleast drop down the cooldown to 90 sec - 2 mins tops.
    Sjuksyster, Holy Paladin on Grim Batol EU // Retired since 8 Jan 2013.

    Excuse my unstable English, its not my native language.


  2. #22
    i hate it, it's a horrible cooldown, especially in this tier.
    as prot i'm used to divine guardian (2min, 20% all damage, 6sec).
    Shootz' Law (Cya Godwin)
    As an MMO-Champion discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving 25s and 10s approaches 1. In other words, Shootz observed that, given enough time, in any MMO-Champion discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably makes a comparison between 25s and 10s.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by DWguild View Post
    They could make it stronger for holy paladins only like they did with divine hymn for holy priests in cataclysm (not sure if its still that way now). Even a glyph would work just fine, though that would make the modifications available for Ret and Prot as well. Here's a few ideas for glyphs.

    Glyph of Devotion Aura
    1. Removes the silence immunity of Devotion Aura but adds 20% physical damage reduction.
    2. Removes the silence immunity of Devotion Aura but increases the duration by 100%.
    3. Removes the silence immunity but Increases healing received while Devotion Aura is active by 40%.
    4. Devotion Aura now also increased armor value of items by 100% while active.
    5. While Devotion Aura is active, raid members affected by your sacred shield receive an additional 20% damage reduction.

    I would be happy if either of these glyphs got implemented. Which one would you prefer the most? I'm leaning towards 1. Maybe 2. I think 5 would make it a nice Tank CD in conjunction with protecting the raid (titan gas), as well as offering some incentive to take sacred shield over eternal flame.
    A glyph would be compulsory, so probably not fine. Those trade offs aren't really trade offs at all. The ability probably does need tackling but baseline.

  4. #24
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    It needs to have a physical reduction component as well it's the one thing that is really missing and there are a lot of fights where damage is physical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
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  5. #25
    I don't know why, but it appeared to work on Force and Verve (at least on normal), unless that was fixed.
    Last edited by Elathi; 2012-12-18 at 12:50 AM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by grovely View Post
    Indeed its not completely useless, but for 4/6 bosses is the use of it not big enough to make any diffrence really.



    Well, i dont know every healing CD there is but say druids tranq, it does not reduce any kind of damage but it heals everyone a lot and fast which is better than devotion aura obviously.
    holypriest got their divine hymn that is pritty much like a tranq but not really as good.
    Monk's got their cd's that heals players for A LOT aswell and instant.
    Disc priest got their barrier which reduces all damage by 25% for everyone that's inside it.
    Shamans got their spirit link totem which reduces all damage by 10% and heals players in some way.

    So pritty much everyone of the other healers "raid" cooldowns is in their way better than devotion aura since it only works against magical damage.
    You're comparing apples to grapefruit. Devotion Aura, while it could stand some tweaking, is one tool in an entire box. No, it doesn't heal major amounts of damage. No, it shouldn't be used on cooldown (in most cases). No, it isn't as versatile as pre-MOP. But, it is still a valuable tool that can help decrease large amounts of raid damage. If you need to heal large amounts of damage, we have cooldowns for that. If you need to extend your mana efficiency, we have cooldowns for that. AOE heals, emergency heals, damage reductions, debuff protection and removal (beyond Cleanse), threat management and even immunity are all part of the total package that a Paladin brings. Picking one and comparing it to something entirely different is always going to make for an unfair comparison.

    TL;DR: If you want to be unhappy, you will be. Paladins are not underpowered.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by DWguild View Post
    3. 40% increased healing is strong yes, keep in mind it only lasts 6 seconds, filling the entire raid in 6sec? i don't think so.
    Since Tranq and Hymn only last about as long => yes.
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  8. #28
    Devo sucks, 6 seconds.. and 3 min cooldown? really?

    THing is garbage, compared to others. Seriously needs a buff.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Lecan View Post
    You're comparing apples to grapefruit. Devotion Aura, while it could stand some tweaking, is one tool in an entire box. No, it doesn't heal major amounts of damage. No, it shouldn't be used on cooldown (in most cases). No, it isn't as versatile as pre-MOP. But, it is still a valuable tool that can help decrease large amounts of raid damage. If you need to heal large amounts of damage, we have cooldowns for that. If you need to extend your mana efficiency, we have cooldowns for that. AOE heals, emergency heals, damage reductions, debuff protection and removal (beyond Cleanse), threat management and even immunity are all part of the total package that a Paladin brings. Picking one and comparing it to something entirely different is always going to make for an unfair comparison.

    TL;DR: If you want to be unhappy, you will be. Paladins are not underpowered.
    First off yeah i do think that its fair to compare devotion aura to other healing CD's especially since i run 10mans nowadays. As i said before you do not have the luxury to bring 1 of eatch class for a 10man group. So in that case do i think that a raid CD should be a cooldown that can be used on every boss, devotion aura can ofcourse but on the majority of the bosses will deovtion aura make a very small difference meanwhile tranq will make a huge diffrence on all bosses.

    Second of all yes im am 100% aware of all our abilitys, all from bubbles to LoH to hand of protection/salvation BUT they are not a raid cooldown (i do not count them as such anyway) and it is our raidcooldown we are talking about.
    For a side note, all classes have mana regain spells, damage reductions, emergency heals, AoE heals. The only thing they dont have that paladins have is pritty much bubble and hands but the other classes have other stuff instead of that.

    Third of all NO i do not think paladins as a class in underpowered at ALL, i can push out a lot of healing not necessarily top healing done (not that it is a fair way to compare) but still i can win in some bosses and i can lose on some bosses so the class is not underpowered. But clearly our raid CD is weak compared to what other classes have

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    not very useful on most fights in HoF, short duration, and being the only raid cd paladins have, i find it to be extremely lacklustre.

    holy paladins need something more imo. something exclusive to holy that affects the whole raid.
    It may not be that great in HoF, but its extremely useful in MSV and Terrace. Knowing when to use it is key - its like PW barrier without having to stack at the trade off of not working on physical (previous tiers did not have that many physical damage aoe's, but HoF does)

    Is it the be all end all, no. But its decent at what it does, reduce a fair chunk of a large magical hit - even on a spread raid. Damage reduction is nothing to sneeze at, and is devo is the only aoe/spread out DR ability (the others work only while stacked - tiny perk, useful if needed while moving for example).
    Last edited by Keiyra; 2012-12-18 at 08:57 PM.

  11. #31
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lecan View Post
    You're comparing apples to grapefruit. Devotion Aura, while it could stand some tweaking, is one tool in an entire box. No, it doesn't heal major amounts of damage. No, it shouldn't be used on cooldown (in most cases).
    I agree with this. But it stands that this tool is our 3 minute raid-wide cooldown.

    But the other cooldowns: Tranquility, Divine Hymn, Power Word: Barrier, Revival, and Spirit Link Totem, all help the raid cope with every type of damage, whereas Devotion Aura only helps with magical damage.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by DWguild View Post
    i dont think 2 or 3 would make it too powerful.

    2. this would make it 12s long, which is around what other raid cooldowns last
    3. 40% increased healing is strong yes, keep in mind it only lasts 6 seconds, filling the entire raid in 6sec? i don't think so.
    Tranq, Holy Hymn, Shaman Guidance, Halo.

    Hurrrrr.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Creatorr View Post
    Tranq, Holy Hymn, Shaman Guidance, Halo.

    Hurrrrr.
    Yeah, if you decided to blow ALL your healers raid cooldowns during that 6 seconds. Not sure why any raid group would do that because that would be infinitely stupid.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by DWguild View Post
    Yeah, if you decided to blow ALL your healers raid cooldowns during that 6 seconds. Not sure why any raid group would do that because that would be infinitely stupid.
    ... Good lord.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Creatorr View Post
    ... Good lord.
    good lord what? it's the truth

  16. #36
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    Devo aura buffs such as suggested would make it really stupid good in 25mans (well tbh kinda maybe needed considering how many rets are benched for real fights in real guilds? ).

    What makes a paladin outstanding in 10man raiding, is not Devotion Aura nor any buffs to it: if they would happen, but the crapton of utility you get to use these days.
    WoW = Retired Main: Ret Alt(s): War , DK

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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by grovely View Post
    First off yeah i do think that its fair to compare devotion aura to other healing CD's especially since i run 10mans nowadays. As i said before you do not have the luxury to bring 1 of eatch class for a 10man group. So in that case do i think that a raid CD should be a cooldown that can be used on every boss, devotion aura can ofcourse but on the majority of the bosses will deovtion aura make a very small difference meanwhile tranq will make a huge diffrence on all bosses.

    Second of all yes im am 100% aware of all our abilitys, all from bubbles to LoH to hand of protection/salvation BUT they are not a raid cooldown (i do not count them as such anyway) and it is our raidcooldown we are talking about.
    For a side note, all classes have mana regain spells, damage reductions, emergency heals, AoE heals. The only thing they dont have that paladins have is pritty much bubble and hands but the other classes have other stuff instead of that.

    Third of all NO i do not think paladins as a class in underpowered at ALL, i can push out a lot of healing not necessarily top healing done (not that it is a fair way to compare) but still i can win in some bosses and i can lose on some bosses so the class is not underpowered. But clearly our raid CD is weak compared to what other classes have

    You drastically undervalue our hammer of light, not sure if it's just 10v25 but with full cd's up you can heal 80% of the value of a tranq in 1 hammer, it is a 16s hammer vs like 6s tranq and is limited to low movement fights though. Devo Aura is pretty huge on a lot of fights, equally as useful as tranq, you can't heal damage that overkills you. E.g but a poor one, spirit kings shield being broken, in heroic gear it leaves most people sub 10% hp, in normal mode gear it 1 shots you unless you have barrier/slt/devo aura.

    From a healer PoV obviously on the lights hammer vs tranq.
    Last edited by Tandoor; 2012-12-19 at 04:59 AM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by DWguild View Post
    i dont think 2 or 3 would make it too powerful.

    2. this would make it 12s long, which is around what other raid cooldowns last
    3. 40% increased healing is strong yes, keep in mind it only lasts 6 seconds, filling the entire raid in 6sec? i don't think so.
    I do think so. Tranq, dhymn, revival, even poh spam/cascade, healing tide, the list goes on.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Tandoor View Post
    You drastically undervalue our hammer of light, not sure if it's just 10v25 but with full cd's up you can heal 80% of the value of a tranq in 1 hammer, it is a 16s hammer vs like 6s tranq and is limited to low movement fights though. Devo Aura is pretty huge on a lot of fights, equally as useful as tranq, you can't heal damage that overkills you. E.g but a poor one, spirit kings shield being broken, in heroic gear it leaves most people sub 10% hp, in normal mode gear it 1 shots you unless you have barrier/slt/devo aura.

    From a healer PoV obviously on the lights hammer vs tranq.
    Yes Hammer of light is a very strong healing spell that we have but that one is also quite situational since it requires people to stack, in a 25man raid is HoL very strong and you can probably hit atleast 5+ targets all the time even when people arent stacking, but HoL is not as strong in 10mans and i do prefer holy prism in 10mans rather than HoL.

    And yes devotion aura is very strong on some fights indeed, but on some fights is it useless meanwhile the other healing CD's can be used on every fight and still do a great job.

    And trust me iam aware of all the skills paladins have, and i do not undervalue HoL but that spell cannot be counted as a raid CD for me and that is once again what we are talking about here. Paladins are strong when it comes to pure healing i know we got strong AoE heals, strong singletarget heals, shields and everything but when it comes to raidcd's do paladins have the weakest one.

  20. #40
    Bloodsail Admiral Galm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grovely View Post
    For the 5th boss is devotion aura useless unless someone fails on interrupting the monstrosity or themselves.

    For the 6th boss is devotion aura only useful in the last phase which is helpful but still it's far from being as effective as other raid cd's
    Amber Shaper last phase + Dissonance Fields during Empress phase 1.

    I would welcome the 10% physical damage reduction, even through a glyph similiar to [Glyph of Divine Protection], so that it could be changed depending on the situtation.

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