Lets help solve a problem - The hate group WBC

[Puck]

In all seriousness I can only enjoy a protest from them is they chant "Lol your kid is dead" Otherwise theyre a bunch of lowlifes with no appeal. They need to be more insane to get the funny vote.

How can you enjoy even that?

[Maxwelll4112]

How can you enjoy even that?

Nearly 7 billion humans, our individual value is pretty much nothing. We're our own population control, have to accept it. Might as well have a few laughs on the way.

[Trunksee]

They are only spreading hate at themselves. They can do what they do because they do it on public land like anyother protest. They dont use deragatory words. They are very careful to stay within the law. What they say is not directed at the victims its at society as a whole so this whole they attack the victims is wrong. They just USE the situation to push their agenda just as the loberals are right now trying to get the assault rifle bill passed.

Look they are being hated directly while they.are attacking society as a whole. They arr doing the same thing abolishonists did. Do you think it started as a majority to abolish slavery? If you take away their right to attacked society then ypu block change. Every new idea will become hate speech. If people dont like it you block it. So most dont like gay marriage on a state lets block them from protesting. Lets block immigrant protests because its frowned upon. You see where im going with this? If you block one group it sets a president so anyone who finds something they dont like blocked and labeled as a hate group. They are attacking society not individuals so tell me who do they hate directly. They dont approve of peoples actions and they way society handles it.

[smelltheglove]

Here... let me help you... taking away their right to free speech, can and will lead to the removal of speech rights of any number of minorities... if YOUR plan had been enacted say um... 150 yrs ago.. women wouldn't ever have the right to vote because they'd be minority and someone would have made a law against their ever voting... same sex marriage would have NEVER even been considered because the majority would have criminalized it... black having equal rights or voting would never ever have occured... do you not realize that?

Tell me this... are you willing to give up YOUR right of free speech to silence WBC? Yes or No?

i am a staunch supporter of 1st amendment, and i am thoroughly disgusted by WBC. i find myself in a quandary with this tbh. i looked up the case you mentioned, and i found it extremely disappointing. truthfully though, i felt his case was very weak, a case where WBC had been in view/hearing of the funeral would have been far more compelling imo.

obviously being labelled as a hate group would not infringe on their 1st amendment, but as spectral has been saying, how would we like the govt defining a church? many major religions have had less than wonderful policies/statements, and where does govt put the line?

i guess i would settle for better protection for a very select few instances that could lead to issues. funeral is at the top of the list. the only possible reason to protest a funeral is to cause anger and hurt, you would never reach somebody by doing it, only incite anger. look at the protests at soldier funerals - anti-war people were as outraged as pro-war people. imo funeral protests are so provocative that nothing can ever be accomplished by doing it, so impact is negligible at most

[Seranthor]

i am a staunch supporter of 1st amendment, and i am thoroughly disgusted by WBC. i find myself in a quandary with this tbh. i looked up the case you mentioned, and i found it extremely disappointing. truthfully though, i felt his case was very weak, a case where WBC had been in view/hearing of the funeral would have been far more compelling imo.

obviously being labelled as a hate group would not infringe on their 1st amendment, but as spectral has been saying, how would we like the govt defining a church? many major religions have had less than wonderful policies/statements, and where does govt put the line?

i guess i would settle for better protection for a very select few instances that could lead to issues. funeral is at the top of the list. the only possible reason to protest a funeral is to cause anger and hurt, you would never reach somebody by doing it, only incite anger. look at the protests at soldier funerals - anti-war people were as outraged as pro-war people. imo funeral protests are so provocative that nothing can ever be accomplished by doing it, so impact is negligible at most

Smell,

If the government steps in and declares WBC not a church then they just violated 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof';

So far they are guilty of saying hateful stuff, and hurting people's feelings, and pissing off most of us. However, none of that is illegal.

[smelltheglove]

Smell,

If the government steps in and declares WBC not a church then they just violated 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof';

So far they are guilty of saying hateful stuff, and hurting people's feelings, and pissing off most of us. However, none of that is illegal.

i agree. spectral won me over on that. i dont like it, but there it is. i guess now some of us are getting a small taste of what people had to go through with KKK back in the 60's (not the violence, but offensive speech/behavior). yeah, KKK is still around, but their antics are laughable these days, and not really a threat to free speech. although, i am also with spectral on eliminating tax exemptions for churches altogether, but that is a different discussion.

what do you think about the last part of that post? maybe pass laws for certain events (extremely limited number/type obviously) where protesting's only purpose is to incite/offend?

[semaphore]

You two need to chill and take a breather. This thread isn't even about their right to free speech, it is about them being recognized as a hate group, which honestly, should have happened a long time ago.

Eh, they are pretty much recognised by everyone who knows them as a hate group. It's just that it's not like there's an official federal designation that strips them of other rights.

[Annapolis]

Eh, they are pretty much recognised by everyone who knows them as a hate group. It's just that it's not like there's an official federal designation that strips them of other rights.

I still don't know what makes them legally different than any other religious group. And if they aren't legally different then why would they be silenced or have their tax exemption status removed?

[Trunksee]

i agree. spectral won me over on that. i dont like it, but there it is. i guess now some of us are getting a small taste of what people had to go through with KKK back in the 60's (not the violence, but offensive speech/behavior). yeah, KKK is still around, but their antics are laughable these days, and not really a threat to free speech. although, i am also with spectral on eliminating tax exemptions for churches altogether, but that is a different discussion.

what do you think about the last part of that post? maybe pass laws for certain events (extremely limited number/type obviously) where protesting's only purpose is to incite/offend?

I think your looking at the tax exemption with a blind church eye. They are tax exempt because its.a charitable organazation. So if you take it away.you need to remove the status.from all charitable organazations to be fair. The churches arent exempt because of religion its based off it being a charity. So as long as they are a charity based organization it will be a hard sell.

[Tyrod]

I don't like black people. I don't like how they talk, I don't like the way they talk, I don't like the things they do or the things they talk about. Therefore, they should NOT have the right to free speech because they do not deserve it. Plain and simple.

Terribad troll is terribad. If you don't think there is a difference between taking away the rights of a group of 38 inbred, hateful sons of bitches and taking the rights away from an entire race of people then you are truly the world's most pronounced imbecile and you should go about obtaining whatever benefits legally retarded people get. I mean honestly, you are beyond help if you can't see the BLINDING differences. EVERYONE (of sound mind) and their grandmother and their grandmother's grandmother fucking hate WBC. Only a handful of ignorant shitheads (like yourself) hate people based on race. Racism is stupidity incarnate.

[Trunksee]

Terribad troll is terribad. If you don't think there is a difference between taking away the rights of a group of 38 inbred, hateful sons of bitches and taking the rights away from an entire race of people then you are truly the world's most pronounced imbecile and you should go about obtaining whatever benefits legally retarded people get. I mean honestly, you are beyond help if you can't see the BLINDING differences. EVERYONE (of sound mind) and their grandmother and their grandmother's grandmother fucking hate WBC. Only a handful of ignorant shitheads (like yourself) hate people based on race. Racism is stupidity incarnate.

Actually not everyone hates them. I do.t like their actions but their views are.starting to gain merif in my eyes. They are over the top with their actions yes but the ties they are making seem to correlate with the current situation in this country. They have the backing of a lot of churches for their views and being willing to do what they do. Just because you dont like their stance doesnt make them mo.sters or in breed. What scares you is if their views are right. Their.actions are dipicable but their ideas are really that bad.

[the0o]

The military has them listed as a Hate group.

The basterds even call the families of Service members after they deploy to tell them an accident has happen and your son or daughter may have been killed. My mother got that call hours after my sister landed in afgan, she lost her mind, call me (I was at a temp duty station working as field medical support), called my brother who was leaving for a deployment himself.

I had to call the CO of the base my sister was station at to get an answer, These freaks do this just to traumatize families.

[Trunksee]

The military has them listed as a Hate group.

The basterds even call the families of Service members after they deploy to tell them an accident has happen and your son or daughter may have been killed. My mother got that call hours after my sister landed in afgan, she lost her mind, call me (I was at a temp duty station working as field medical support), called my brother who was leaving for a deployment himself.

I had to call the CO of the base my sister was station at to get an answer, These freaks do this just to traumatize families.

This is illegal and a hateful action. Yes if this is a normal practice then the person should be arrested. Did you press charges for impersonating an officer?

[zEmini]

Hi, Batman. Have you found Joker yet?



Not without good reason. Being a member of a hate group is not reason enough.[COLOR="red"]

Batman broke the law for being a vigilante
Colonist broke the law by refusing to pay taxes and revolted against eh British
Germans broke the law when they tried to save Jews from the Nazis

Like I said, sometimes it is for a good reason.

ALso, businesses do have the right to refuse service for nearly any reason. This is one of those.

[the0o]

This is illegal and a hateful action. Yes if this is a normal practice then the person should be arrested. Did you press charges for impersonating an officer?

Thats the thing, they didnt identify themselves as cops, nor state where they got the information from. My mother (the one who got the call) didnt ask any questions, she just broke down crying and started call us, Which i can understand after getting news that your kid and only daughter is dead.

I had no ground to stand on, No number to track (mother couldn't tell me the number, it came up as unknown caller), the only information i had was from her command who told me that they get these calls a few days after a depolyment, i wish i could sue thier asses but with no solid proof i would lose.

Hell i couldn't even find out how they got my mothers number.....

[Tyrod]

Actually not everyone hates them. I do.t like their actions but their views are.starting to gain merif in my eyes. They are over the top with their actions yes but the ties they are making seem to correlate with the current situation in this country. They have the backing of a lot of churches for their views and being willing to do what they do. Just because you dont like their stance doesnt make them mo.sters or in breed. What scares you is if their views are right. Their.actions are dipicable but their ideas are really that bad.

Another troll who thinks it's clever or entertaining to "go against the flow." Individuality is fine and all as long as you're not being a fucking idiot. Their views are starting to gain merit in your eyes? Please elaborate. Explain to me how the FUCK you think it's logical that they preach about God and the bible when ALL they do is spread hate.Please explain how it's reasonable that they ride the thin legal line that is still WRONG just technically allowed by society because some dumbasses say it's allowed, sue people to make money when their so called "rights" are violated, believe that everyone who doesn't share their views is going to hell because God hates everyone apparently.

PLEASE EXPLAIN WHERE THE FUCK THERE IS MERIT IN THEIR IDEAS.

A lot of churches back their view? Source for this? Even if this were true, it STILL doesn't make those ideas any less retarded. If you're referring to homosexuality for example, the bible contradicts itself and therefore becomes a worthless reference point. You can't abide by "love your neighbor" and hate the "abomination" of gay people at the same time, it's literally a paradoxical impossibility. So why choose the latter and not the former? Exactly.

Their actions AND ideas are utterly despicable and nothing but a detriment to our species, a poison that needs to be filtered out of existence.

[rhorle]

Smell,

If the government steps in and declares WBC not a church then they just violated 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof';

So far they are guilty of saying hateful stuff, and hurting people's feelings, and pissing off most of us. However, none of that is illegal.

No. If the government can't declare that they are not a church then how has the government declared that they are? Currently they are a church under governmental laws that gives them certain things that non church organizations don't have. The primary thing being tax exemption. You don't seem to understand the issue at its heart.

It isn't about stopping a religion of hate. It isn't about limiting free speech. It is all about removing the rights and priviliges a registered church gets in the United States. This can happen with out falling under free speech and religious freedom because not everything gets church status just because you have a religion. Not every cult out there gets that label.

What they are saying and doing isn't illegal but it may violate their church registration. If they aren't practicing the beliefs and views of their religion and only using it as a immunity for hate then they certainly should have their designation revoked. Because they aren't practicing the faith that they have Church status under.

---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 01:56 PM ----------

I still don't know what makes them legally different than any other religious group. And if they aren't legally different then why would they be silenced or have their tax exemption status removed?

If they violate any of the below they could be find to be violating the tax exempt laws. Which is really what the topic is about. Page 5 also talks about how groups can jeopardize their tax exempt status under this law.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf
To qualify for tax-exempt status, such an
organization must meet the following requirements
(covered in greater detail throughout this publication):
■ the organization must be organized and operated
exclusively for religious, educational, scientific, or other
charitable purposes,
■ net earnings may not inure to the benefit of any
private individual or shareholder,
■ no substantial part of its activity may be attempting
to influence legislation,
■ the organization may not intervene in political
campaigns, and
■ the organization’s purposes and activities may not
be illegal or violate fundamental public policy.

[Trunksee]

Another troll who thinks it's clever or entertaining to "go against the flow." Individuality is fine and all as long as you're not being a fucking idiot. Their views are starting to gain merit in your eyes? Please elaborate. Explain to me how the FUCK you think it's logical that they preach about God and the bible when ALL they do is spread hate.Please explain how it's reasonable that they ride the thin legal line that is still WRONG just technically allowed by society because some dumbasses say it's allowed, sue people to make money when their so called "rights" are violated, believe that everyone who doesn't share their views is going to hell because God hates everyone apparently.

PLEASE EXPLAIN WHERE THE FUCK THERE IS MERIT IN THEIR IDEAS.

A lot of churches back their view? Source for this? Even if this were true, it STILL doesn't make those ideas any less retarded. If you're referring to homosexuality for example, the bible contradicts itself and therefore becomes a worthless reference point. You can't abide by "love your neighbor" and hate the "abomination" of gay people at the same time, it's literally a paradoxical impossibility. So why choose the latter and not the former? Exactly.

Their actions AND ideas are utterly despicable and nothing but a detriment to our species, a poison that needs to be filtered out of existence.

The idea that America has blocked religion of any kind out of anything and society has gotten worse since. Personally i see it, sorry but i do. Its how I personally see the world. We embrace ideas that havent been embraced in 2000 years. Our over indulgence of violence is a big one. Its like we live in the roman empire without the actual killing we do it in movies and video games. Their actions i could never take as i wouldnt want them disrupting any family. We are a society reverting backwards and ive seen it like this.for.a.long time. Sorry but its how i feel. Im not trying to push.an agenda on you but i.see their point.

[Annapolis]

If they aren't practicing the beliefs and views of their religion and only using it as a immunity for hate then they certainly should have their designation revoked. Because they aren't practicing the faith that they have Church status under.

Those guidelines were pretty much what I thought they were but it was interesting to see the wording. Anyway, they clearly don't violate any of those points. And who are you to say that they aren't practicing their religion or following it? If they deeply believe in their interpretation of the bible then that's what they believe. I don't like this group but they are no different than any other religious organization with tax exemption status. To rule them not tax exempt you'd have to start asking the judiciary to rule some religious beliefs to be reasonable and others not.

[Deleted]

Church or Hate Group? Same thing no?

...and with that we can close the thread quietly. ~fuzzzie