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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    They said theme of the tier is "breaking the rules" so it doesn't have to be anything to do with what it was.
    Well, the rule it breaks is the combo point one. Versatility is junk because if you need redirect that much:
    1)- You shouldn't have brought a goddamned rogue in the first place. Hell, most melee are probably poor here.
    2)- The globals will murder you.
    3)- It's frustrating to not see how many CPs you have when you change targets anyway.

    Versatility, Anticipation, and Bandit's Guile are the things I point to when anyone tries to state that rogues get equal dev time to, say, druids. They simply do not. Several druid talents have a custom effect per spec, each tweaked carefully for its role. Several specs in the game have a special spec-specific UI- for instance, balance druids get the eclipse bar.

    >Bandit's Guile needs a damned UI. The UI should display your insight level and your progression through it (green 2, yellow 1, that sort of thing), and it shouldn't just be handled with the dumb buff system.

    >Anticpation needs to be represented as a second row of combo points. BLUE ONES PLX though I'll just use comergy to make them rainbow colored as well as the current ones. Again, stop doing resources as low duration buffs that get lost amidst all the garble. That's lazy and shows disdain for the class. Make it work with slice and recup as well.

    >Versatility should say "Combo points are now on the rogue", and should do EXACTLY that. There's not much else to say. It does this, or it is shit. That means that rogues need a technical change such that the CPs can be on the rogue, or on the target. Super, do it.


    Shadow focus I could see maybe but why would nerve strike get nerfed?
    It is generally better than the rest of the tier. I want deadly throw baseline, and if this is supposed to be a defensive / peel tier, then put a third thing in there that does that. Counting deadly throw because you can sometimes DT a poly (and likely interrupt the frostbolt that comes next lololool) is a huge stretch and it hurts our gameplay and kit. But as it is, nerve strike is very powerful, and it also benefits sub a lot more than the other specs. My prediction is that it will only work on kidney shot in the future.

    Auto attacking is the definition of not in your control.
    Untrue. You have slice and dice, and you need to stay in melee range. Shadow Blades is also a lot of control you have over that- you get to pick when they go from physical to magical while gaining +19% hit chance. Given how good we are at our melee strikes, it's important to have a cooldown that buffs them so people can stop calling them "passive" damage when half the class is about actively managing them.

    change blade flurry back to wotlk model, i just loved it as a cooldown
    Good grief no, that sucked compared to now. Our flurry is actually good and makes us powerful utility/damage on certain fights. The 20% haste got pushed over to adrenaline rush, which is still a cooldown, and now we have an awesome mode where we fork damage like crazy. Never touch blade flurry again, it's perfect! Except to give us a UI method of seeing if it is working, or maybe a targeting cone. Or just leave it alone, it rocks.

  2. #42
    I don't know about anyone else, but I feel sad if I have to change talents from Anticipation or Shadowstep into something else for a particular fight. Those two abilities just feel like they should be baseline. I mean, Anticipation actually made pooling energy as Assassination somewhat interesting. And shadowstep I guess is less dear to me than Anticipation, and moreso a crutch, but it's just so convenient for PVE that it bothers me to switch it. But I guess I also consider the second sprint from the Worgen racial a crutch, and I am hesitant to switch to Pandaren just because I find myself using that sprint way too often.

    I would like to see a whole reworking of the final tier. I can't imagine that in PVE anyone takes Shiruken Toss anymore after the bug-fix. And Versatility is only applicable for a handful of boss fights. And it's not even really necessary in those cases. I want to have three abilities to choose from that I would change for different fights. Maybe one for increased AoE, one for increased single target, and one for increased burst damage. However, I guess this is what Blizzard wanted to do with our specs in general, so treating out final tier in that way would give some people reason to not ever switch specs.

  3. #43
    The Lightbringer Payday's Avatar
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    A little work on KS would be appreciated.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Feindy View Post
    change blade flurry back to wotlk model, i just loved it as a cooldown
    If it went back to a 2min cd it would be terrible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post

    >Versatility should say "Combo points are now on the rogue", and should do EXACTLY that. There's not much else to say. It does this, or it is shit. That means that rogues need a technical change such that the CPs can be on the rogue, or on the target. Super, do it.
    As much as I'd like this change it feels like a slap in the face. To go through the time and effort to make cp's on the rogue then force us to talent for it. That said it does sound like something blizzard would do lol, if it wasn't for putting time and effort into rogues part.....

  5. #45
    Epic! Phookah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feindy View Post
    change blade flurry back to wotlk model, i just loved it as a cooldown
    You are a terrible person with terrible opinions.
    WotLK Blade flurry. /shudder
    "If MMORPG players were around when God said, "Let their be light"
    they'd have called the light gay, and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it."

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Never touch blade flurry again, it's perfect! Except to give us a UI method of seeing if it is working, or maybe a targeting cone. Or just leave it alone, it rocks.
    Still needs to be baseline for all specs, or similar reworking.
    Maybe like this:
    Assa: transfers all your poison damage to the most nearby target
    Combat: keep it like it is
    Sub: transfers all special attack damage (and maybe bleeds) to the most nearby target

    Of course, needs balancing.

  7. #47
    I don't really think all specs need flurry, honestly.

  8. #48
    Legendary! Luko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    I don't really think all specs need flurry, honestly.
    I'm going to be a super downer here, but I'd just rather they remove it all together.
    Listen kiddos, trust Handsome Jack. You want every part of this insanity.
    So many people are gonna die.

    Formerly Ryngo Blackratchet

  9. #49
    Why? It's fucking awesome, and it's powerful. It helps distinguish the specs, and it's been around since alpha. It's been extraordinarily helpful when there's multiple targets around. Blade Flurry is probably one of our best designed moves.

  10. #50
    * Remove SnD
    * Make rupture scale with haste
    * Energetic recovery triggered by rupture

  11. #51
    High Overlord
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    I hate blade flurry because every cleave fight requires me to use it. I like being assassination / subt rogue. Combat gameplay feels like you have 4 buttons and thats it. Boooooring.

    Make combat a psudo tank spec. Give us back riposite. Make our mastery mitigate damage.

    "Glyph of the Swashbuckler: Increases threat generation. Increases armor and magic damage reduction. Crit (or something) is reduced to gain more parry. Makes mastery give a chance to entirely evade an attack and counter it with a strong offhand attack that generates energy. Also ends every sentence with 'Yaaaarrrrg matey!' or 'Ye scalliwags!'. Must drink alchol to prevent [Scurvey](Turns the rogue bright orange).

    I had a lot of time on mah hands! Dont judge meh! It would be like the warlocks demon hunting glyph.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 09:25 AM ----------

    Hmm. I left out a taunt spell.... lets make it [Shake Peg Leg] (Infutiates the target into attacking you.)
    Why is there no "Demonhunter" hero class yet? He was only the coolest hero in WC3. Get busy Blizzard.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    * Remove SnD
    * Make rupture scale with haste
    * Energetic recovery triggered by rupture
    rupture just needs to do better dmg imo

  13. #53
    Something like ignite or deep wounds triggered by critical finishers would be nice too imho.
    Last edited by D3athsting; 2012-12-19 at 11:21 AM.

  14. #54
    for combat spec Eviscerate with 5 points should also apply a 5 point rupture on target double dip on resources should also grant double the effect
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  15. #55
    i really think SnD is the most boring finisher in the game, because you can't really "feel" that it helps you, yet you have to keep it up 24/7 because of energetic recovery, which could just as well be on rupture/recuperate.

    oh yea, and step or prep baseline - at least not on the same tier.

    perfect for me would be lowering the CDs of all abilities and removing prep, then putting burst of speed / step / a third talent in the tier 4 talent row.
    and redirect with no CD talent is utter shit :P

  16. #56
    Legendary! Luko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Why? It's fucking awesome, and it's powerful. It helps distinguish the specs, and it's been around since alpha. It's been extraordinarily helpful when there's multiple targets around. Blade Flurry is probably one of our best designed moves.
    Hitting an additional target while sitting around like a rage starved monkey, cheesing the meters because we're doing a second mini-rotation with absolutely no extra effort? That's dumb. I'm not a fan of padding the meters. Single target is single target and AoE is AoE. This cleave thing has gone a little over the top now.

    But again, I'm sure I'm all but alone on this one.
    Listen kiddos, trust Handsome Jack. You want every part of this insanity.
    So many people are gonna die.

    Formerly Ryngo Blackratchet

  17. #57
    Speaking of AOE, I would like some respectable AOE damage on fights with 3-5 targets. And the AOE we have right now is awkward at best. It's like the developers didnt even think of what the rotation would end up being when they thought of it. We arent even sure what the highest DPS AoE rotation is, and the ones that are on the table feel really awkward and more importantly, not fun. The only semi-fun AOE rotation is tab FoKing and 1pt ruptures. And using FoK as a CP generator while otherwise doing a normal rotation on one target feels SO SLOW. As does trying to maintain a more than 3pt rupture on multiple targets. It's just... all so awkward.

  18. #58
    problem with aoe rotation is enemy based combo building if we had CP build on our rogues it would make life so much more easy for us you all know it !
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  19. #59
    Legendary! Luko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayanne View Post
    Speaking of AOE, I would like some respectable AOE damage on fights with 3-5 targets. And the AOE we have right now is awkward at best. It's like the developers didnt even think of what the rotation would end up being when they thought of it. We arent even sure what the highest DPS AoE rotation is, and the ones that are on the table feel really awkward and more importantly, not fun. The only semi-fun AOE rotation is tab FoKing and 1pt ruptures. And using FoK as a CP generator while otherwise doing a normal rotation on one target feels SO SLOW. As does trying to maintain a more than 3pt rupture on multiple targets. It's just... all so awkward.
    You're exactly right. It really does sort of animate the feeling of the word "clunky." Rogues have always been a little clunky, dont get me wrong, but in the past, this clunkiness translated into more of an "unstable machine" feeling where if you screwed up once, you'd notice it in your performance. Everything had to be well oiled. Now, it's a similar sort of stress but with no pay off and no enjoyment of gameplay.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 11:55 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    problem with aoe rotation is enemy based combo building if we had CP build on our rogues it would make life so much more easy for us you all know it !
    A mixture of this and our energy boosting ability to be a buff, perhaps through SnD so that we don't have to worry about rupture targets dying before everyone else.

    Edit: Well damn, I realize I just described a Monk. You know, it is a little sad to see so many of the things we've been tossing around to better rogues for the past few years be implemented into an entirely different class instead.
    Last edited by Luko; 2012-12-19 at 05:56 PM.
    Listen kiddos, trust Handsome Jack. You want every part of this insanity.
    So many people are gonna die.

    Formerly Ryngo Blackratchet

  20. #60
    yep frustrating even if monks are bad dps wise there are more fun to play then rgues imo i realized how fast paced the monk can be if you play him right there is almost no waiting between skills
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

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