New Adaptions, Ideas to improve game play.

[Jokerfiend]

I'd think to see some adaptions to this game. Namely:

1. DOTA2 Style 5 minute game abandonment. So if, people leave within 5 minutes, then the game is forfeit of stats. I'd like to see LoL go to a 7-10 minute rule.

2. More progressive results on reporting people, positive and negative. Example, if you report someone and it's deemed. Then you are granted the IP, in game, without going to the Tribunal. If you actually go to the Tribunal, you are awarded more IP AND RP, up to a cap in RP of course. If you report someone and it wasn't deemed. Then you lose your rights to report anyone for a stacking debuff up to 24 hours. If continued past 24 hours, you lose IP or possibly banned yourself.

3. More ways to Earn IP. I'd like to see mini game of learning mechanics that grant IP based on score. I believe this could encourage better play in all brackets. For example, a last hitting mini-game. Pick a champion, and all it does is basic attacks. Or example, A dodging mini-game, A Vilemaw or Baron type of monster casts at you, you have to dodge the skills shots for IP.

Just a couple of ideas, I have shooting around with a couple of friends. Most seems to like them. Any ideas?

[Duilliath]

My idea is that your ideas won't work. I can think of several abusive cases within seconds.

1) top gives up first blood. Bitch him out horribly for 5 minutes until he leaves, so you get a forfeit and don't lose elo.
2) report everyone all the time in the hopes you get some measly ip until you figure out you shouldn't by getting banned
3) how would a support do this? this would might just encourage supports sniping last hits from an ADC and then not understand why they get bitched out when the mini game taught them to last hit.

Mind you, this is me taking all of 5 seconds. I'm quite sure that with more thought I can come up with stronger counter points.

[Deleted]

My idea is that your ideas won't work. I can think of several abusive cases within seconds.

1) top gives up first blood. Bitch him out horribly for 5 minutes until he leaves, so you get a forfeit and don't lose elo.
2) report everyone all the time in the hopes you get some measly ip until you figure out you shouldn't by getting banned
3) how would a support do this? this would might just encourage supports sniping last hits from an ADC and then not understand why they get bitched out when the mini game taught them to last hit.

Mind you, this is me taking all of 5 seconds. I'm quite sure that with more thought I can come up with stronger counter points.

1) get reported and banned for abuse, you state yourself the Tribunal is great and is working, why wouldn't it work on this?
2) great, another dumbass got banned, what's your point?
3) the mini-games taught them to last hit, they didn't teach them to last hit as a support, by my first 3 games I already knew what a support role was supposed to do, so he fucks it up one, maaaaybe two games if he's slow -- now he's learned a lesson and he's become a better support. and because of the mini-games he wont sit at 100cs @20minute mark when he's forced out in other roles. Win win.

@OP: I really dig your ideas. Should post em to Riot. Except for the one rewarding IP/RP for players who participate in the Tribunal. This'll just attract cunts who's only doing it for the prize.

[Duilliath]

1) How would someone report if they left? And, even if it the reporting went though, see: anything that makes the game more toxic is not going to happen.
This has been explained multiple times over by several Riot members. They will not give any incentive to drive people from the game in the hopes of a "loss forgiven".

2) And the tribunal gets flooded with (even more) worthless reports. Great thinking scott.

I don't necessarily disagree with 3. I just think that particular implementation might not be the best way to go about it. I like the idea of a better 'tutorial' for lack of a better word.

[Maelle]

For example, a last hitting mini-game. Pick a champion, and all it does is basic attacks.

I like this idea I could probably be more motivated to practice last hitting on different champs more if it was fun... (I support a lot) would be nice with like... 2-4 lanes queued next to each other so it was something that had a little competition in. No abilities just auto like you say - and not a long game, short and fun!

[Deleted]

1) How would someone report if they left? And, even if it the reporting went though, see: anything that makes the game more toxic is not going to happen.
This has been explained multiple times over by several Riot members. They will not give any incentive to drive people from the game in the hopes of a "loss forgiven".

2) And the tribunal gets flooded with (even more) worthless reports. Great thinking scott.

I don't necessarily disagree with 3. I just think that particular implementation might not be the best way to go about it. I like the idea of a better 'tutorial' for lack of a better word.

1 ) They dont want anything toxic in this game? Isn't it a bit too late for that? There's so much opportunity to troll and enrage other people in this game it's completely idiotic. The timers on que-dodging for one thing, I've sat in god knows how many times on an hour long que-penalty because of trolls. You troll in-game and force 3-4 other people to sit through it for 30-60minutes? Really? -- No one's going to leave because of harassment when there's a mute button and the possibility of reporting the harassers afterwards. The fact that there isn't any "loss forgiven" still surprises me with the amount of trolls and ragers there is.

2) Wait, you're complaining about the amount of reports in the Tribunal? I thought the whole idea was to seperate the good from the bad and then toss out the bad. I also thought about 90% of the Tribunal cases got punished, how is 10% even worth mentioning? I dont necessarily agree with this one to be honest, the whole reporting system itself is flawed, half of what's on that list shouldn't be an option at all.

[Deleted]

Obviously instead of minigames you just start up custom game with bots and do stuff. Remember that game is run as another application and booting it might take quite some time, which is pretty uncomfortable for "mini" games.
And don't even think about those other 2 things.

[Pandragon]

I'd think to see some adaptions to this game. Namely:

1. DOTA2 Style 5 minute game abandonment. So if, people leave within 5 minutes, then the game is forfeit of stats. I'd like to see LoL go to a 7-10 minute rule.

2. More progressive results on reporting people, positive and negative. Example, if you report someone and it's deemed. Then you are granted the IP, in game, without going to the Tribunal. If you actually go to the Tribunal, you are awarded more IP AND RP, up to a cap in RP of course. If you report someone and it wasn't deemed. Then you lose your rights to report anyone for a stacking debuff up to 24 hours. If continued past 24 hours, you lose IP or possibly banned yourself.

3. More ways to Earn IP. I'd like to see mini game of learning mechanics that grant IP based on score. I believe this could encourage better play in all brackets. For example, a last hitting mini-game. Pick a champion, and all it does is basic attacks. Or example, A dodging mini-game, A Vilemaw or Baron type of monster casts at you, you have to dodge the skills shots for IP.

Just a couple of ideas, I have shooting around with a couple of friends. Most seems to like them. Any ideas?

1: Someones net goes down after 5 minutes and they dc. Game forfeits and their net comes back up a few mins later. They get reported for nothing, and the game ended to soon. It would be better of elo was still lost. Sports teams who have to surrender a game don't hear "don't worry, you didn't actually play so you are still x-0". A forfeit is a surrender, it is a loss. But as you said in another post in this thread, I do wish the queue dodge penalty was removed for ranked, or at least painted a different color(probably won't get the joke lol). Yes it would cause some issue, but when I go into champ select and everyones arguing over mid, and people choose 3 Bruisers and Khazix(for bot) It's not fair I have to sit for 30 mins doing.

2: The tribunal already went through, and still does, go through crap cause of IP boosts for successfully judging cases. This will also backfire and ban people who didn't deserve it. The tribunal would have to give a lot more info on games before this could work, like a video of the match of the report. It's easy to troll and screw over a game, without it looking like you are. So if someone reports you then the tribunal readers can't know 100% if you were trolling, or your team was butthurt and blaming someone wrongly for their loss.

3: This won't encourage better play. It will just make people do it for the IP but ignore it's teachings in real games, and you can already do this stuff in a custom game.

[Jokerfiend]

1) How would someone report if they left? And, even if it the reporting went though, see: anything that makes the game more toxic is not going to happen.
This has been explained multiple times over by several Riot members. They will not give any incentive to drive people from the game in the hopes of a "loss forgiven".

I disagree, very much so. It works like your first response in DOTA2 just like that. You get DCed, you don't have a game. DOTA is known for it's unforgiving attitude from WC3:TFT. People would pull all the time to avoid bad games and bans. So it had to be ruled with an Iron Fist. If you have a shitty computer, or shitty internet connection and you join a RANKED game. That isn't 4 other peoples fault, that is YOUR fault. You now lost, ELO, stats, and time. Mainly, because someone doesn't have courtesy to avoid RANKED games.

2) And the tribunal gets flooded with (even more) worthless reports. Great thinking scott.

That is flat out bullshit, and you know it. If your making false reports, then you will get banned for spamming reports and abusing power. When you ban someone, you have to think, do you REALLY want to make this person lose their account. Just because they called you a cunt whistle. Really, you don't understand the lives of people behind the screen. They might of a a really bad day, having even worse games, and just happened to pop. Maybe, they got trolled really hard in a couple of games. This community is a pay it forward kind of attitude in general. You want to takes someone account because they are a douche, maybe, there is a valid reason WHY they are a douche.

This game isn't any different, than ANY OTHER community on the internet. In those other communities that you cannot ban someone, you just ignore it right? Move on? Then why isn't this attitude in this game, OH, because you can control someones else fate with a push of a button. Sounds an awful a lot like a "soldier" pressing a button on a drone strike. You don't care about the lives behind the screen. All you care about is your eyes. Well, there is an ignore button. Use it and don't report. Yet, I am sure you'd report too. Make sure you press that button if it's truly needed. Not because someone called you a name.


I don't necessarily disagree with 3. I just think that particular implementation might not be the best way to go about it. I like the idea of a better 'tutorial' for lack of a better word.

Look, I am just having ideas, the implementation of said ideas is a different story. My line of thinking, is that people want to play a new champion, BOT games are a joke. If there are different incentives to practice different aspects of the game, like last hitting, warding, dodging, and skill shots. It might help people polish those skills on a whole rather then just with that Champion.

Response of the post.

---------- Post added 2012-12-16 at 04:05 PM ----------

1: Someones net goes down after 5 minutes and they dc. Game forfeits and their net comes back up a few mins later. They get reported for nothing, and the game ended to soon. It would be better of elo was still lost. Sports teams who have to surrender a game don't hear "don't worry, you didn't actually play so you are still x-0". A forfeit is a surrender, it is a loss. But as you said in another post in this thread, I do wish the queue dodge penalty was removed for ranked, or at least painted a different color(probably won't get the joke lol). Yes it would cause some issue, but when I go into champ select and everyones arguing over mid, and people choose 3 Bruisers and Khazix(for bot) It's not fair I have to sit for 30 mins doing.

Already the case for DOTA2, and is invalid as an argument. I'd like to see it in this game. Just an idea, I don't care about your reasoning of why it shouldn't be implemented. As stated before, it's not 4 other peoples fault. If the person DCed and are reported, there are ways to figure out if the person pulled or actually DCed. Just thought you should know that.

2: The tribunal already went through, and still does, go through crap cause of IP boosts for successfully judging cases. This will also backfire and ban people who didn't deserve it. The tribunal would have to give a lot more info on games before this could work, like a video of the match of the report. It's easy to troll and screw over a game, without it looking like you are. So if someone reports you then the tribunal readers can't know 100% if you were trolling, or your team was butthurt and blaming someone wrongly for their loss.

It already backfires on people. So what's your point? Yes, btw, Riot doesn't give enough information on games to warrant Tribunal bans as it is. Though even if the vast majority of people on the Tribunal vote yes to ban. Riot DOES have the last say, before the motion goes through. So any ban you receive is by Riot anyways. Tribunal is just a filter to help cases. I don't think you know how it works.

3: This won't encourage better play. It will just make people do it for the IP but ignore it's teachings in real games, and you can already do this stuff in a custom game.

No, you can't do this(my idea) in a custom game. Look, the implementation of the idea. You think, honestly, Riot would just throw up a mini with no explanation on WHY the game was there, what it was for, and the reason the training is involved? Or How to use said training for real game applications? Think Riot would allow you to abuse said mini games for IP and that it would be A LOT of IP? Do you think anything through?

Response to the post.

[Maelle]

Response of the post.

---------- Post added 2012-12-16 at 04:05 PM ----------



Response to the post.

You seem like really, really angry o.o

[Duilliath]

Reminds me of someone who used to post champion ideas, tbh. Feedback apparently is hard to take in.

One might want to consider the fact that, just possibly, their ideas are not perfect. One might additionally wish to consider the fact that LoL, in fact, is not DotA2.

[Hanyuu]

Response of the post.

---------- Post added 2012-12-16 at 04:05 PM ----------



Response to the post.

I really disagree with you. If someone is verbally abusive and cursing at me...yeah, I report them without fail. I ran 5 pvp matches last night and only in one was the other team uncivil. So I had my whole team report two offending players (incidentally, I held a completely civil conversation with the support on the other team. Yeah, they were winning but they didn't have any cause to curse at us and mock us). I don't care what their real lives are like. There's a certain amount of personal responsibility I demand of the other players. Riot outlines how players should play in their Summoner's Code; they really want us to be professional and considerate of others. You don't see athletes taunting each other in professional sporting matches (or if they do, they are made to pay). Also, if these players are toxic to my team, chances are, they've been toxic to other players too. I don't want them in the community. The game would be better off without them. Though I really believe people should always reign in their angry, I doubt anyone gets banned over a single incident. I was reading that most players punished once by the tribunal are never punished again. I really feel like players that get banned indefinitely, probably deserved it. The tribunal in itself is probably just a way for Riot to lessen the workload of its customer service department. If 20 players judge a case one way, the employ can glance at the logs and merit guilt or innocence much easier. I was reading Riot banned a pro player for a year because he was toxic. That says alot to how they feel the community should be. They really believe in their summoner's code. Basically, it boils down to, if can't or won't follow the summoner's code, that you agree to when you start the game up, then you can't be surprised or shocked you might get banned.

There's plenty of communities on the internet that remove or ban players for being toxic. Actually, here at MMO Champion, I've run across players be banned or infracted for a number of things.


Edit: Responding to the original post.

1. The first idea is completely unneeded. It would be subject to abuse by players and could actually cause bullying in the game. If losing because of being down a person is an issue, then it seems like queuing with a premade is the natural solution.

2. I don't really like the idea of Riot giving us RP for doing anything. They are a company and do need to make profit. I really like their "vanity" for RP or as shortcuts for those with more money than free time. If you are just test driving the game or have alot of time, then you can get everything useful by just playing it. I know they removed the IP from the tribunal at one point, because they wanted people to do it to clean to community rather than being rewarded for it. The way the tribunal works if I recall, is they it takes more than one person and more than one game for action to be brought against you. The game logs I read usually contained 2-5 games. The long term bannings were made by a Riot employee. I don't think false reports are a big problem.

3. I don't think this idea is bad per say, but I'd rather they spend their development time remaking champions (say Karma who we never see), working with balance issues on maps, designing new champions, redoing art, and making new types of maps (twisted tree line and dominion are both fun). As a smaller company, I feel like there's probably a limit. Those two of skills like last hitting, are developed over time while actually playing anyway.

[Axethor]

1) No, never. I could see people abusing this by simply turning off their router or unplugging the cable. The lol client cannot tell the difference between that and a real DC.

2) They are trying to make Tribunal better by removing the incentive. Putting it back could actually make things worse, with more people getting unfairly reported and banned. Also, they already ban people who do erroneous reports, it's just not automated and only done for very extreme cases.

3) Great idea, but most of this stuff can already be done in custom games or by facing bots. Last hitting is easily practiced in custom games now. You won't find any better practice for skill shot dodging than by facing intermediate bots. The most important stuff you need to learn about playing you can only learn by playing other people. No tutorial could prepare you for that. If Riot decides it's needed it will be a welcome addition, but it's really unneeded development time IMO.

[Jokerfiend]

Edit: Responding to the original post.

1. The first idea is completely unneeded. It would be subject to abuse by players and could actually cause bullying in the game. If losing because of being down a person is an issue, then it seems like queuing with a premade is the natural solution.

It's not unneeded, it is in fact in DOTA2, for a reason, honestly needs to be implemented. I knew Guinsoo and Pendragon(Later on the creators of LoL) in game, I beta tested DOTA verisons 1.05, 1.06, 1.08. Just talking to them, they despised leavers of any kinda. They are the ones that set the rules about leavers and DC. Look at it like this, there is nothing different if someone leaves a game now, except whoever leaves dicks over the other 4 people on their team. Do they deserve stat loss? Do the "winners" deserve the win? No. The fairest thing to do is report the DC/Leaver, and wipe the game. So I guess that DOTA2, is doing it wrong? Hahaha.

The premade comment is a joke. People bully people, regardless of incentive. There would be no more bullying then there already exists. If you give in to the bullying, you are at fault anyways. Just put people on ignore and move on with your life. Seems like people take words on a screen way to seriously.



2. I don't really like the idea of Riot giving us RP for doing anything. They are a company and do need to make profit. I really like their "vanity" for RP or as shortcuts for those with more money than free time. If you are just test driving the game or have alot of time, then you can get everything useful by just playing it. I know they removed the IP from the tribunal at one point, because they wanted people to do it to clean to community rather than being rewarded for it. The way the tribunal works if I recall, is they it takes more than one person and more than one game for action to be brought against you. The game logs I read usually contained 2-5 games. The long term bannings were made by a Riot employee. I don't think false reports are a big problem.

I can't argue with personal opinion. I feel differently.

3. I don't think this idea is bad per say, but I'd rather they spend their development time remaking champions (say Karma who we never see), working with balance issues on maps, designing new champions, redoing art, and making new types of maps (twisted tree line and dominion are both fun). As a smaller company, I feel like there's probably a limit. Those two of skills like last hitting, are developed over time while actually playing anyway.

Again, a personal opinion, you say small company, but it's a multimillion dollar company now. It's in no way small. The same arguments happen about any sort of game involving development time. I think an effort needs to placed in educating the community a bit more.

Response to the post.

---------- Post added 2012-12-16 at 10:14 PM ----------

1) No, never. I could see people abusing this by simply turning off their router or unplugging the cable. The lol client cannot tell the difference between that and a real DC.

This is already the case in DOTA2. Yet, that is not the 4 other peoples fault you have a shitty internet connection. Sure we could compromise and limit it to only RANKED games. I want a source saying that LOL client cannot tell the difference, between DC and Leaving. I know the WC3:TFT could, so I don't see why it couldn't be a simple fix, if it can't tell.

2) They are trying to make Tribunal better by removing the incentive. Putting it back could actually make things worse, with more people getting unfairly reported and banned. Also, they already ban people who do erroneous reports, it's just not automated and only done for very extreme cases.

So Riot bans. YET, people are acting like it's in the Tribunals hands. People already are getting reported unfairly and unjustly banned. I fail to see a difference. See, if you report, you better make sure they need it. It's just too easy to press and button and call someone a jerk, because they told you to suck a dick, instead of sucking at the game. Sure that person is a jerk no doubt. Yet, in my belief, so are you. Why couldn't you just put them on ignore and walk away? More than likely you are never going to play with them again. If you do, you wont see what they say. So what does it matter to you? It's too much power for an average person.

3) Great idea, but most of this stuff can already be done in custom games or by facing bots. Last hitting is easily practiced in custom games now. You won't find any better practice for skill shot dodging than by facing intermediate bots. The most important stuff you need to learn about playing you can only learn by playing other people. No tutorial could prepare you for that. If Riot decides it's needed it will be a welcome addition, but it's really unneeded development time IMO.

Intermediate bots are a joke, personally. I'd like to see a greater incentive to teach specific skill sets in LoL. Instead of just joining a game and playing. Yesterday, I saw a Rammus clicking while rolling. I about died inside. Not only did he miss, he got juked in the bush, because he didn't A attack in the bush. He then died while missing another roll at the Tower. I had to then explain to him why he was getting juked. He didn't get it.

So I think if we had mini games to teach some Meta. Then it would bring the player base up a notch or too. Maybe it's a pipe dream, but I don't think so if implemented correctly.

Response to post.

[Duilliath]

Riot does not want to teach meta. It's very fixed as is and they would do everything they can to avoid cementing it in permanently.

And again, LoL is not DotA2. What DotA2 does need not necessarily be a good idea for LoL.

[Jokerfiend]

Riot does not want to teach meta. It's very fixed as is and they would do everything they can to avoid cementing it in permanently.

And again, LoL is not DotA2. What DotA2 does need not necessarily be a good idea for LoL.

That is a very dull and lame statement made of ignorance. Considering, 90% of the game is DOTA2. Most LoL players, have never played DOTA, especially the WC3:TFT version. Just wait, when DOTA gets out of BETA, you will see change in LoL, to match the play style. FFS, the honor system is a DIRECT rip off. This would be great for the game, and your opinion is lacking true conviction and nothing tangible. Please come up with a valid reason of why this wouldn't work in LoL.

Meta is last hitting, skill shots, as well as placement of champions. I want a source saying Riot doesn't want to teach players how to play the game. Because, it's flat out bullshit.

[Axethor]

That is a very dull and lame statement made of ignorance. Considering, 90% of the game is DOTA2. Most LoL players, have never played DOTA, especially the WC3:TFT version. Just wait, when DOTA gets out of BETA, you will see change in LoL, to match the play style. FFS, the honor system is a DIRECT rip off. This would be great for the game, and your opinion is lacking true conviction and nothing tangible. Please come up with a valid reason of why this wouldn't work in LoL.

Meta is last hitting, skill shots, as well as placement of champions. I want a source saying Riot doesn't want to teach players how to play the game. Because, it's flat out bullshit.

You do realize LoL was made before DOTA 2, and that both take heavily from the original DOTA, with DOTA 2 being a direct port.

What works for one game won't always work for another.

And you have no clue what the Meta is. The meta is the organization of the lanes and champions for maximum gold generation. Dodging skill shots and last hitting is basic gameplay, which can be easily learned by simply playing the game. Something that enforces the meta Riot does not want, but a tutorial for basic gameplay would be fine. However, tutorials can only teach so much and honestly I would find a last hitting tutorial to be incredibly boring. I practice by playing the game, whether that be in a bot game or a normal PvP match.

[NotValidAnymore]

I think there should be short tutorials where, for example, it shows what happens when you get a killing blow a minion, and when you don't get the killing blow on it.

Like for example, first showing what happens if you hit it, then it gets killed by a minion or something. Then showing what happens if you do kill it (you get gold), then showing you something like the proper timing to getting a killing blow on it.

It doesn't even have to be anything massive. It's about how you explain it, not how long the explanation is or how flashy it is.

[Hateful]

One thing I think should be in the game is a form of remake f people disconnect extremely early in the game. The number of times a game starts AND A PERSON DOESN'T EVEN CONNECT is ridiculous. If someone hasn't moved from the start point after 5 minutes, is this game REALLY worth it for the next 15 minutes?

Only the person dc'd should lose elo / have a report logged against them, and the rest should be placed back into queue with no penalty. Games where people don't even connect are just a flat out waste of time.

[Jokerfiend]

You do realize LoL was made before DOTA 2, and that both take heavily from the original DOTA, with DOTA 2 being a direct port.

What works for one game won't always work for another.

And you have no clue what the Meta is. The meta is the organization of the lanes and champions for maximum gold generation. Dodging skill shots and last hitting is basic gameplay, which can be easily learned by simply playing the game. Something that enforces the meta Riot does not want, but a tutorial for basic gameplay would be fine. However, tutorials can only teach so much and honestly I would find a last hitting tutorial to be incredibly boring. I practice by playing the game, whether that be in a bot game or a normal PvP match.

Umm, you do know that DOTA was a direct rip off, of another game in WC3:TFT, called Tides of Blood? TOB spawned, several MOBA style games in WC3. DOTA being the most popular. Yes, LOL was made first, if you take it outside the context and apply to it's own client. Which LOL was made by the ORIGINAL creators of DOTA, Guinsoo and Pendragon. Who I had the opportunity to play with on many occasions, in WC3. I know a bit more but the genre then you do. I was there before the game got popular, I helped beta test some of the beginning versions of DOTA.

You strawmanned that point, because you know it wasn't my point, in stating the obvious. I don't know why you'd go there or the intent, but whatever floats your boat.

I'm still waiting for proof that the LOL client cannot detect the difference between, a DC and a pull. IF the damn near 20 year old WC3 client could, then I don't see why LOL can't. Either way, it's not the 4 others people fault. They shouldn't be punished, for someone else shitty net, computer, or attitude.

Secondly, I agree, I misused Meta, but this game can be used by clicking and QWER, that is basic gameplay. Now, A attacking, using S, Self casting, and such, ISN'T basic game play. Which is why I used Meta, it's the micro play. Forgive me.