Dailies were never a cure for boredom. The sad fact is that Blizzard realizes this as well and the minute you take the gear out from behind them NO ONE WOULD DO THEM. Or virtually no one at any rate. Dailies in this expansion would be about as used as Rated bgs which now work under a similar paradigm. Want to cap your conquest points for the week? Do rated bgs. The developers freely admit this. Furthermore according to them they didn't intend to have any valor gear this expansion. So the valor gear behind the vendors is really just a huge obvious carrot because in testing they realized NOBODY WAS DOING FUCKING DAILIES BECAUSE THEY SUCK. So an overwhelming carrot had to be placed behind them. It's such a obvious skinner box.
Do not expect this to change at least until the next expac and at this point I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will change by then.
Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2012-12-18 at 07:37 PM.
Make valor gear boe and allow people to send to alts or sell on the ah for people that don't want to do alts.
It's a win/win. It allows people who did the dailies to sell gear and make money and potentially get gear for alts and the people who don't want to do dailies can buy the gear on the ah for an over inflated price and get the gear they will replace within a couple of months! :]
Cata content at max level consisted of raiding a few bosses and dungeons. The daily grinds were worse than in MoP(TB and MF dailies) and there were far fewer LFR bosses for the casuals.
Early Cata was especially tough for casual gamers because there was no LFR and you were lucky to complete 2 LFD runs a night so grinding rep or valor items was much more painful than it is now for most casual players. Later Cata with dungeon drops bumped up to epic it was very easy to get epics everywhere, but you were still stuck with only 8 LFR bosses.
I'm not sure exactly what sort of content TonyIommi wants added to the game. Sounds more like it's a request for easier epics disguised as a rant about lack of content. Not to fear, I'm sure by the end of the expansion when dungeons are dropping 480+ ilvl gear and epics are everywhere, you'll get the same feel of 4.3 back.
Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2012-12-18 at 07:53 PM.
dailies should be linked to fun/vanity items, not valor gear.
and before you say valor gear isnt needed for raiding, that may be true, but at the same time you are holding your raid back by not getting valor gear to fill slots occupied by blues.
As for rep, early Cata was horrible for a lot of people. Maybe you had a guild group you chain ran dungeons with, but anyone who had to queue solo was SOL. 45 min queues for DPS, and many dungeons where you had a high chance of not being able to complete because of a bad group. You were lucky to get 2 done in one night so rep grinding even with tabards took a while. And you only got valor for the first dungeon you did each night, so valor gear took a long time to save up for as a non-raider. By the time I took a break in early Cata, I had 2 characters with most of the 359 rep gear and all reps maxed, and I don't believe I had a single valor piece bought on either of them.
Yes, 4.3 was very rewarding with epics raining from the sky. The last patch of an expansion is always going to be that way as Blizzard catches everyone up to the latest tier. I'm sure the last patch of MoP will have epics everywhere as well when dungeons drop 480+ epics.
---------- Post added 2012-12-18 at 10:15 PM ----------
"It’s not the job of the artist to give the audience what the audience wants. If the audience knew what they needed, then they wouldn’t be the audience. They would be the artists. It is the job of artists to give the audience what they need."
— Alan Moore
The valor upgrade system, as implemented in 5.1 means you can always spend valor right up until you hit fully upgraded BiS items from heroic raiding. And here's the best part. Even once you start getting BiS items and upgrading them, it will take you a minimum of 24 weeks to get all of your items fully upgraded.
Now for the kicker. You can spend valor, or have the "right" as you put it, to spend valor from day 1 of hitting 90. Go kill sha of anger and you'll get some 476 boots. You'll now spend 2 weeks upgrading those. After that, you probably picked up an LFR piece or 2. Go upgrade that.
You have the "right" to spend as much valor as you earn. What you have to CHOOSE is where you spend it. If you want the 489 pieces, do dailies. They're better early on, but it only takes a few weeks for valor gear to become an inefficient spend of points.
463 -> 489 via direct gear is ~66 points per ilvl (averaged over all valor items)
476 -> 489 via direct gear is ~123 points per ilvl
483 -> 489 via direct gear is ~190 points per ilvl
Comparatively, the valor upgrade system is always 4 ilvl per 750 points, or ~187 points per ilvl. This system then is nearly as efficient in getting your item level up as it is to rep grind and buy upgrades from Mogu'shan LFR, and is MORE efficient than buying valor gear to replace pieces obtained in Heart of Fear LFR. The only time you actually benefit more from buying a replacement item with valor is going from heroic dungeon to rep valor gear, which you cannot do for at least 2 weeks of valor capping anyway. In that time, you probably picked up at least 1 LFR item or the boots from Sha of Anger.
On top of all of that, the valor upgrade system does not stop being useful once you start getting 489 drops from MSV. You can continually be upgrading items as you win them, and like I said, it will be at least 6 months before you stop having items to upgrade.
TLDR: You made a pointless and subjective over simplification of a system in the game that you don't like and wanted to bitch about. I did math and pointed out the flaws in your admittedly poorly structured argument. GG.
I bring up 4.3 because it was the only time that would even remotely compare to MoP with how "rewarding" it was. Early Cata was not very rewarding for people who weren't raiding. Middle Cata gave us troll dungeons that dropped "epics" which weren't even high enough ilvl to qualify for the Cata epic gear achieve.
So 7 months into an expansion you had 3 characters decked out in 359 gear(equivalent to gear that drops in the first normal raid). Less than 3 months into MoP, I have 2 characters already in the 480's(near ilvl of drops in normal MV), 1 in the 470's, and with valor buff and double rep, I fully expect to have at least 5 characters total in the high 480's ilvl by the time the next tier comes out.
Last edited by SamR; 2012-12-18 at 09:51 PM.
His answer was exactly that exaggerated, but his point was that it was to rewarding in cataclysm and you went to fast because it was so rewarding. Now the game is significantly LESS rewarding. Mists is grindy, unrewarding and slow as hell. You are now arguing against the developers. Christ even you said it, tony your just after easier epics. Why do you think that's the case? BECAUSE IN THE PAST IT WAS MORE REWARDINGStephen Reis @StephenReis123
@Ghostcrawler Are you convinced "going slow" was the right design philosophy to put to players?
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12:05 PM - 15 Dec 12 · Details
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15 Dec Greg Street @Ghostcrawler
@StephenReis123 We are convinced that letting players finish the expansion in a couple of weeks is not good for the game.
15 Dec Stephen Reis @StephenReis123
@Ghostcrawler Really appreciate the response and I want to stress that but at the same time why are so man many of your answers exaggerated?
Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2012-12-18 at 09:55 PM.
I've already laid out in detail why early Cata was in fact not all that rewarding for people who didn't raid. Long dungeon queues, much higher chance of dungeon fail, etc. You could try to challenge my arguments explaining how exactly pre-4.3 Cata was more rewarding than current MoP rather than just calling me a liar.
Sure, when 4.3 came out, rep was a non-factor. You were running ezmode 4.3 dungeons for great epics anyway and got rep as a free bonus. You also got LFR, the new easy way to get gear. By that point, the rep rewards were pointless anyway and people only bothered wearing tabards for the enchants.His answer was exactly that exaggerated, but his point was that it was to rewarding in cataclysm and you went to fast because it was so rewarding. Now the game is significantly LESS rewarding. Mists is grindy, unrewarding and slow as hell. You are now arguing against the developers. Christ even you said it, tony your just after easier epics. Why do you think that's the case? BECAUSE IN THE PAST IT WAS MORE REWARDING
Do I need to pull out the Blizz quote about Cata dungeons being too challenging as a reason they switched to ezmode 4.3 dungeons? Too challenging is kind of the opposite of too rewarding.
Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2012-12-18 at 10:21 PM.
45 min queues for DPS, good chance of dungeon failure, only a small amount of valor for 1 dungeon a night so it took forever to earn enough valor to buy a single piece of gear, and valor gear not even covering all the slots!
If you really think that was more rewarding than MoP with quick ezmode dungeons and scenarios that give valor for every single run and LFR + coins which reward you with tier gear and weapons, well, I guess we'll just have to disagree on that point.
PS: I loved the "grossly misinformed" line. As if somehow I didn't play Cata and experience it for myself. Lol. Sometimes other people have different opinions and you don't have to prove that they're a liar and you're the only correct person with the only acceptable opinion.
Get some friends. What do you want me to tell you? I never had 45 minute ques for dps and that isn't the norm by and large. You keep trying to marginalize it but it's not going to work because it flies directly in the face of what the developers wanted to do this expansion. Make it slower and grindier. Which they did. Dungeons in early cata were EXTREMELY rewarding by comparison to every activity you can do in mists. That is all. You obviously have some skewed views of cataclysm lets put it that way.
The EZness of the dungeons has nothing to do with their reward same for the scenarios. Challenge and reward are not the same. I was done with dungeons two days into the expansion at most. They are not rewarding enough and don't have enough continued reward going forward by design.
Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2012-12-18 at 10:34 PM.