remove the rep requirement for valor gear.

[Tomana]

This might shock and totally surprise you but... I DONT LIKE PLAYING THE GAME THE SAME WAY YOU DO. I liked getting my rewards out of dungeons not running fucking daily quests for a piddling amount of fucking valor and rep.

Because you want to have the cake and eat it too. Rep + items + valor from one place? A little bit too much perhaps?

[Leonard McCoy]

Because you want to have the cake and eat it too. Rep + items + valor from one place? A little bit too much perhaps?

Nope. It was great and i've been doing exactly that for ages now. It is the worst change to the game and it's one the developers are relenting on already. It's just a matter of time.

[Tomana]

Nope. It was great and i've been doing exactly that for ages now. It is the worst change to the game and it's one the developers are relenting on already. It's just a matter of time.

Well they clearly said that rep tabards are not coming back, so I kind of doubt they will reverse themselves.

[Leonard McCoy]

Well they clearly said that rep tabards are not coming back, so I kind of doubt they will reverse themselves.

Actually they've begun that process already. Scenarios and dungeons will begin offering "bonus" reputation. It's just a matter of time at this point. They will implement some kind of system that will be horribly flawed, limited restricted and people will give them feedback about it. The system will of course get further iterations until we get something that is more or less like a tabard.

Ultimately it's just a process of them getting it through their thick fucking skulls. Going slower is a dumb idea. It's not 2006 and you shouldn't adopt the outlook of players who want the game to be like it was in vanilla or tbc which is a foolish notion as much as I love Tbc. GC has started to adopt every regressive back in the day notion that these people as eschewing on various forums across the web in some vain attempt to capture past glory.

[dokhidamo]

I'd be fine seeing Blizz back-remove requirements. So in T15 the requirement for T14 valor gear is removed.

[Tomana]

Actually they've begun that process already. Scenarios and dungeons will begin offering "bonus" reputation. It's just a matter of time at this point. They will implement some kind of system that will be horribly flawed, limited restricted and people will give them feedback about it. The system will of course get further iterations until we get something that is more or less like a tabard.

This is all pure speculation at this point. Patch is not even on the PTR yet, so unless you're psychic, I would refrain from any such predictions yet.
Also, during an expansions, some stuff is bound to become easier to offer at least some catching-up mechanics (cf. 4.3 5-mans, even though they probably won't go this far in MOP).

---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 11:02 PM ----------

I'd be fine seeing Blizz back-remove requirements. So in T15 the requirement for T14 valor gear is removed.

Possibly. I'm not even sure there will be T15 valor gear, by the way, perhaps all VPs will just go to upgrades from 5.2 onwards.

[Leonard McCoy]

I'd be fine seeing Blizz back-remove requirements. So in T15 the requirement for T14 valor gear is removed.

Pointless. In fact if they do that it may as well be sold for jp as well. People want reward and progression and they don't want it to be a wall in their face all the time. Look even if you remove the rep requirement from valor gear tmmrw guess what? Grinding out the valor to actually buy the gear is still painful and slow as hell anyway. It doesn't need to be double gated unless your telling me nobody will touch daily quests without it. I agree but that's a function of how shitty daily quests are.

---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 10:05 PM ----------

This is all pure speculation at this point. Patch is not even on the PTR yet, so unless you're psychic, I would refrain from any such predictions yet.
Also, during an expansions, some stuff is bound to become easier to offer at least some catching-up mechanics (cf. 4.3 5-mans, even though they probably won't go this far in MOP).[COLOR="red"]

.

Which part is speculation? The part where they say they will implement a bonus rep feature? No that's a blue post. The part where I say they will iterate the system because it will be extremely limited and restricted? Well your half correct. The word bonus suggests that you'll still get the majority of your rep from dailies. However the "bonus" will be used so much I feel that eventually Blizzard will iterate around that and just make it the natural way you get rep. The system will still favor dailies at first, I'm positive about that. They haven't quite got it through their thick fucking skulls that rep grinding is gay when you tie it to some out of the way activity that nobody likes. The game is a giant skinner box. Eventually the mice either give up or turn on one other when you deprive them of reward.

[Tyrven]

1. Blizzard has stated many times that you don't need Valor gear.
2. Valor Points haven't been a raid currency in years.

If this was 100% true not only would they not give us valor they wouldn't have just raised the amount you get doing different things. Many non heroic bis items for ppl are from valor and in some cases like rings the new valor rings are the 2nd best option for ppl even if they are 16/16 in heroics. Sure you don't absolutely have to have the valor gear to do things, but lets not kid ourselves if the gear was that unnecessary they wouldn't have taken the time to put it in the game. They screwed up the rep and valor grind at the start of MoP they have said this several times in several different ways at this point. Now they are just doing partial fixes one after another to try and repair the issue they caused without completely revamping things.

[dokhidamo]

Possibly. I'm not even sure there will be T15 valor gear, by the way, perhaps all VPs will just go to upgrades from 5.2 onwards.

Blizz wants upgrades to replace nerfs to raids, not replace adding more vp gear. I'm sure there'll be another daily faction in 5.2.

Pointless. In fact if they do that it may as well be sold for jp as well. People want reward and progression and they don't want it to be a wall in their face all the time. Look even if you remove the rep requirement from valor gear tmmrw guess what? Grinding out the valor to actually buy the gear is still painful and slow as hell anyway. It doesn't need to be double gated unless your telling me nobody will touch daily quests without it. I agree but that's a function of how shitty daily quests are.

If you want to hit 90 Monday, be geared Wednesday, and be raiding by Saturday; WoW is not the game for you. As the Pandaren say, slow down.

[Revak]

It comes down to this for me:

I do not hate dailies. I hate that I have to do them in order to buy valor gear, which in turn causes me to ignore them most days. In previous expansions this was not the case. I am currently only doing dailies for mounts and not buying a single piece of valor gear from any faction even though I can on a couple of toons. I just don't like the system so I use it for LFR/Raid upgrades.

These factions would rather me go pick berries to prove I'm worthy of buying their gear than go and slay thousands of their enemies and save their continent. That makes sense.....

[Leonard McCoy]

If you want to hit 90 Monday, be geared Wednesday, and be raiding by Saturday; WoW is not the game for you. As the Pandaren say, slow down.

Actually that's exactly what's happened in mists. In fact that hasn't changed at all. I hit 90, ran dungeons for 2 days and was good to go for raiding. The heroics are so easy they provide no barrier to entry at all. That hasn't changed at all though. The difference now is that if I want to progress while raiding and get some sense of reward out of the game I have to do dailies. If what your after is barriers to entry than cataclysm was far better for the majority of the population. They couldn't kill heroic dungeons at a decent enough pace and it held them back from raiding, longer than these faceroll mists heroics. It's full speed until you hit that daily/valor/raid wall. Then it's a huge fucking wall and I'm so sick of being told to slow down. This isn't 2006. Slowing down is the dumbest most regressive thing they could have thought of.

[Aquamonkey]

If this was 100% true not only would they not give us valor they wouldn't have just raised the amount you get doing different things. Many non heroic bis items for ppl are from valor and in some cases like rings the new valor rings are the 2nd best option for ppl even if they are 16/16 in heroics. Sure you don't absolutely have to have the valor gear to do things, but lets not kid ourselves if the gear was that unnecessary they wouldn't have taken the time to put it in the game. They screwed up the rep and valor grind at the start of MoP they have said this several times in several different ways at this point. Now they are just doing partial fixes one after another to try and repair the issue they caused without completely revamping things.

When did the world firsts clear 16/16 heroic? Oh, right. It was before 5.1. You don't need valor gear, even the 496s (those rings are at honored, btw).

[Maelstrom51]

15% chance. Boss has 3 items you want a specific one: 5% chance.


Left: chance to get the fail bag. Right: ID lockout

After 11 IDs there a 60% chance of NOT getting the Item in question. By that time almost EVERY raid will have looted the item multiple times and distributed it via DKP.
Large sample sizes DO NOT APPLY HERE b/c there is only one attempt per week.

Believe it or not that's INTENTIONAL. Blizzard stated that they wanted the charms to be a bonus but they kept the chance of Items low enough so raiders don't consider it mandatory.

Unrelated side note: That's the very same reason LFR loot sucks btw, the chance of getting a specific Items is way too low.

1) You're making too many assumptions. In most cases, there is a few bosses that you need all items from. This is where you would use your charms.
2) Look at it from an entire raid's prospective instead of a singe character's. Instead of 3 chances a week, its 30 or 75.

So basically... without a doubt, charms will increase a raid's performance over time. The chance of a certain person getting a specific upgrade is small, but the chance of a person in the raid getting an upgrade is incredibly high.



---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 11:14 PM ----------

Because you want to have the cake and eat it too. Rep + items + valor from one place? A little bit too much perhaps?

Rep + valor + charms in once place is what dailies offer. From the most boring and time consuming content, too.

[Ranluka]

Heres teh thing:

If you raid Normal or above,
DON'T SPEND VALOR ON REP ITEMS EVER.
You're going to replace everything you get from rep in Normal Mode, so you're better off saving your valor and using it to upgrade drops.

This means.. tada! Rep doesn't matter. At least not if you raid.

Which means all you really need to do each week is enough dailys to get your 3 charms, which really isn't that many.

[thunderdragon2]

Heres teh thing:

If you raid Normal or above,
DON'T SPEND VALOR ON REP ITEMS EVER.
You're going to replace everything you get from rep in Normal Mode, so you're better off saving your valor and using it to upgrade drops.

This means.. tada! Rep doesn't matter. At least not if you raid.

your not going to be that lucky to get every drop you need in a few weeks valor gear is there to fill the slots rng wont let you fill

[Leonard McCoy]

your not going to be that lucky to get every drop you need in a few weeks valor gear is there to fill the slots rng wont let you fill

If only I was that lucky. I may have continued to play the game. As it was even in LFR i got squat for my time invested.

[thunderdragon2]

If only I was that lucky. I may have continued to play the game. As it was even in LFR i got squat for my time invested.

my main still has 476 boots and cloak i was after pandaran ambasador and ive gotten revered with shield wall,

but say there are people in my position but don't have the rep status i do,

just coz they raid normal or heroic they should be able to spend their valor on better gear than what they coherently have?

that's absurd, as that's the whole point of valor gear.

lfr is annoying, i just got the last peice i need form there on my 3rd alt be4 my main is done....

[Ranluka]

your not going to be that lucky to get every drop you need in a few weeks valor gear is there to fill the slots rng wont let you fill

...why do you need to?

A few weeks?! Dude, gear isn't supposed to take just a few weeks. People spend months farming a teir!

You need 27000 Valor in all to get your BIS items all upgraded. Its going to take you the entire tier to get all that gear upgraded. Why would you waste it on filler gear when you need it for your BIS? The only time you should spend it on rep gear is if you've run out of raid gear to upgrade and you're going to waste valor if you don't spend some. That's the ONLY time.

I know you want to cling to the Pre-MOP model, but this expac, its primary purpose is gear upgrades. That's the the rep gear is lower ilvl. If you're spending it on Rep gear, you're just gimping yourself.

[Windfury]

When did the world firsts clear 16/16 heroic? Oh, right. It was before 5.1. You don't need valor gear, even the 496s (those rings are at honored, btw).

I'm so sick of hearing this garbage. Why do people persist in pretending that everyone is capable of playing to the level of world first players. Some simply aren't, and yes, those people do need the valor gear to participate. It is not the same for everyone, stop pretending that it is. For example one of our raiders, who has been with us for many, many years, happens to only have one arm. Do you think they can play at the level of a world first player? Should they be reasonably expected to? If I tell them to practice enough do you think their arm will grow back? They still want to participate, and they can, *if* they get a bit of help, and that comes in the form of stuff like valor gear. Not everyone is of equal skill, ability and potential, it's offensive to pretend that they are in your expectations. 99.9999% of us are not world first players and it's completely ridiculous and pointless to pretend that we are or could be in most circumstances.

[Beefhamer]

this is mostly qq about alts. to spend your valor that you get from raiding, you need to grind out reps. which to be honest, is stupid. I get a currency from raiding, and I have to do DAILIES just for the RIGHT to spend it?

who thought of this crap?

my warlock alt has no desire to do any dailies, I do enough of them on my paladin. but, if I want to spend my valor, I have no choice.

rep should only be required for VANITY items. valor items should be on their own vendor, cause if I choose to raid on a character, I shouldnt be forced to do dailies just to spend my valor. all this system does, is FORCE people to do dailies that they dont want to.

being forced to do dailies to spend a currency you primarily get from raiding = dumb.

You can spend your valor to upgrade existing raid gear you have. Its like the old days, if you wanted raid gear you had to raid. No one complained. If you wanted PvP gear you PvP'd. No one complained. If you want rep gear do the dailies.