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  1. #41
    I don't know if there would be a minimum, it should be doable at all levels of haste, but obviously the more the better by far. Go ahead and try, worst that happens is it just doesn't pan out to be as good as Rune at your gear level.
    Last edited by DreamSpyre; 2012-12-27 at 04:23 AM.

  2. #42
    Pit Lord velde046's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mastamage View Post
    6 stack camping favors Haste better than Mastery. Rarely do I have to Scorch weave to stay above 80% mana
    tbh, even reforging full mastery doesn't make that a problem... I gem/reforge Mastery > Haste and I can safely go to 6 stacks (sometimes 7 or 8 even), proc two AM's and then be back at 100% to cast AB... no problem whatsoever... no need for Scorch weaving here...

  3. #43
    That's always going to be dependant on luck with am procs.

  4. #44
    Keyboard Turner
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    hey everyone,

    i have a question concerning arcane and haste. i am a troll mage with approximately 10.000 haste unbuffed. during lust time, when my troll beserking is active, my arcane blast needs exactly 1 second to cast. i am kind of unsure what to do now: should i go for more haste or start with some mastery from now one? on one hand, this problem only concerns about 20 seconds of the fight, but on the other hand it's the most important phase of a boss fight. i really have no clue what to do now.

    maybe there is someone who could enlighten me. thanks in advance.

  5. #45
    Hi Dreamspyre, thank you for your extensive testing and math for arcane. I am loving the haste/invocation build at the moment. I noticed you reforged back to a mastery/rop build. Do you find mastery/rop to still be the top dps?

  6. #46
    Hey. No atm, I still barely if at all notice the difference between mastery and haste. We're working on heroic sha atm, and with the 15% haste buff in phase 1 it was just way too much haste and I decided to just go mastery for that fight until it's on farm. I'll be going back to haste for our farm clear on Tuesday.

  7. #47
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamSpyre View Post
    Hey. No atm, I still barely if at all notice the difference between mastery and haste. We're working on heroic sha atm, and with the 15% haste buff in phase 1 it was just way too much haste and I decided to just go mastery for that fight until it's on farm. I'll be going back to haste for our farm clear on Tuesday.
    Out of interest do you play HArcane on Wind Lord HC? Killed it last night for the first time using NT/Haste setup but I think due to importance of first BL phase w/ CDs and pots Mastery might pull ahead due to silly burst damage potential. Also mused with the idea of Frost Bomb; both cases (Mastery reforges, FBomb) just for meter whoring, thoughts?

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    Out of interest do you play HArcane on Wind Lord HC? Killed it last night for the first time using NT/Haste setup but I think due to importance of first BL phase w/ CDs and pots Mastery might pull ahead due to silly burst damage potential. Also mused with the idea of Frost Bomb; both cases (Mastery reforges, FBomb) just for meter whoring, thoughts?
    Last time I did it was with Haste build and just went to middle of the raid and aoe'd my add off till first re-cc and then just single targeted the rest(only really doable if you cc all 3 amber trappers)

    But generally speaking mastery build might be better for overall dps, but the fight longs for high single target..

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    Out of interest do you play HArcane on Wind Lord HC? Killed it last night for the first time using NT/Haste setup but I think due to importance of first BL phase w/ CDs and pots Mastery might pull ahead due to silly burst damage potential. Also mused with the idea of Frost Bomb; both cases (Mastery reforges, FBomb) just for meter whoring, thoughts?
    I'm sure it depends on how your guild does the fight overall. But yes, I do play Haste Arcane there, and generally top my guilds meters (Other than the tank, but that's an unfair comparison). I swap my Elegon Trinket for Relic, Use Frost Bomb on CD, and Stack to 6 Charges and Barrage. I don't even usually bother AM'ing at 6 stacks, if I get to 6 and have any charges, I still Barrage and just use the AM's to get back to 6. When it comes time for the Burn on Wind Lord, I just Spam AB and use AM procs as if I was playing Invocation until the burn is over. Then it's rinse and repeat with 6 stack barrages until the next burn. You regen a lot more than you would expect by barraging.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by DreamSpyre View Post
    [/COLOR]So didn't get to kill H Tsulong, and we're done for the week so it died on Normal. I'm linking our kill pull tonight and my kill last week. I also did awesome (I think) last week and miserably this week.

    Last Week:
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2j...?s=5797&e=6203

    This Week:
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-c8...?s=9635&e=9944


    Did 1.5k more DPS this week, had only one full night phase this week as opposed to two last week. (Day phase significantly lowers overall DPS when the sha's are dying almost instantly, and more time in Night Phase will raise DPS again) Also have received no upgrades between these two raids, both done at 499 Ilvl.

    What I did differently this week, was use Invocation instead of Rune, set my stat priority to Haste > Haste > Haste > Crit > Mastery basically, =p. I burned using just AB and AM as soon as it proc'ed while keeping up NT. Once I hit 25-30% mana, I Evocated again and just kept at it. The playstyle will take a bit of getting used to, but this one fight can be incredibly movement heavy at times, and invocation was amazing for that. To not be reliant on RoP is a fantastic feeling.

    I was sitting at 40.23% Haste fully raid buffed (Frost armor and 5% raid haste).

    I'd also like to say, on one Heroic Tsulong pull, he completely bugged out, and never actually went into his first night phase. The only ability he bothered to use was Nightmares, so it basically became a Patchwerk with very slight movement. (We stopped DPS before he would have actually died, Didn't want to kill it that way) On that fight, using this build I was sustaining over 137k up until the end of the fight, nobody else could even come CLOSE. I'm not sure I could even pull that with a purely patchwerk fight and RoP.

    With the new Arcane changes and the invocation talk here I've been curious about getting an accurate picture on this stuff so thank you for all the information and advice you've been giving out.


    It looks the me the main differences through those Tsulongs are really the kill times, your lust up time is way higher in the second and it is also extremely closer on death to your second CD spike. In general what I have noticed with these invocation logs is that it's much easier to get full use of it compared to rune of power on a heavy movement fight and because of that it generally will result in higher damage for most people.

    Since rune's effectiveness is going to be toned down and it already has the logistical problems your way is a good way to go I imagine for the PTR, but right now I feel rune is better. I'm pretty interested in seeing how your farm goes.

  11. #51
    Been reading about plenty of people going full Haste instead of full Mastery and after looking at the changes in 5.2 i really feel this is the way to go for me aswell, it is very likely i will test this on our farm raid tomorrow, my gear is pretty damn good so that is no problem.

    If i would go full Haste, would not Invocation be the better choice, moreso in 5.2?
    It makes us more mobile and with that amount of Haste the channel on Evocation should be really short.

    I am thinking;
    Reforge Haste
    Regem Haste
    Frost Armor

    Use AB + AM + NT until 30% Mana
    Evocate

    Or is it possible AND worth it to 6 stack camp with that amount of Haste?
    Last edited by lillbrorsan; 2013-01-08 at 10:14 AM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by lillbrorsan View Post
    Or is it possible AND worth it to 6 stack camp with that amount of Haste?
    Technically, if you don't ever drop your stacks, in your presented scenario, then you are still charge camping if you don't drop them with Barrage. To answer your question directly though, you may get lucky on AM procs that will extend the time between your invocations, but you will not be able to sustain a high mana rotation without rune of power, even with scorch.

    So if you do decide to go the invocation route, stack haste, use frost armor, burn AB, use missle procs to extend that residence time between invocations, invocate at around 15-25% mana (depending on your haste), and of course NT when its about to drop off. Try to maintain your stack at all times, using AE (i use it with the glyph) while moving can help, as can sitting on an AM proc which you can quickly spend after moving or just after evocation.

    *edit*

    In reference to Shizo's post:

    I find that while Tsulong has a lot of movement, and invocation seems to benefit that, I almost feel better with rune as I don't have to waste as much time in the day phase that could be spent burning adds. I feel like every time I have to evocate for mana during day phase is time better spent killing, interrupting or ccing adds. YMMV, this is just my feeling on the fight. Of course the flip side is, at night, invocation is a god send for glyphed heals and being more flexible about where I am at any given time.
    Last edited by Malfecto; 2013-01-08 at 10:30 AM.

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