1. #1

    Garalon 25 HC enrage problems

    Hello. My guild has been working on this boss for a few days - we are going 2tanks, 7heals, 16dps. Best try, with lucky legs we've met enrage at 4%. Here are logs (2enrage tries):

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7z...=13773&e=14198
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7z...?s=5112&e=5551

    Any personal trips for dpsers or rest of raid? We have only melee on legs, tried with heroism on start but will prolly try for hero execute phase.

  2. #2
    we did garalon aswell with hero in the execute phase, though i honestly don't know if it's the best alternative...

    gonna give you a bump whatsoever cause i feel you bro.

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pawelek View Post
    Hello. My guild has been working on this boss for a few days - we are going 2tanks, 7heals, 16dps. Best try, with lucky legs we've met enrage at 4%. Here are logs (2enrage tries):

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7z...=13773&e=14198
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7z...?s=5112&e=5551

    Any personal trips for dpsers or rest of raid? We have only melee on legs, tried with heroism on start but will prolly try for hero execute phase.
    These are not necessarily going to get you the kill easily or anything but we have a few of the following:

    Our resto druid (we have 1 compared to your 2) specs Heart of the Wild and dps's Garalon at the start. This will equate to about 4.5million dmg in just that use.

    You need to avoid the early death of your warrior. Its not huge thing, but really 7 healing deaths will only be personal player faults by standing in front of the boss.

    Stand on 1 side ( I assume you are anyway) and just have melee tunnel the 2 closest legs, Rogues can go to the far leg that is at the back too as long as they are using good use of Feint & things like Leaching Poison will go a long way.

    Then ranged can multidot or straight single target the boss. This avoids wasted gcd's on the legs that are closest by the ranged. Dont start on any far legss though if the boss is <10% since only rogues will have the double dmg buff and its more effective to use any execute abilities on the boss rather than on the legs.

    Use Hero on pull, early stormlash rotation with skull banners and do a stormlash/skull banner rotation again <20% for execute ranges.

    Cleave classes are huge on the fight. We used 2 rogues, 2 warriors for our first kill. Even mages combust spreading is quite viable.

    On our first kill I did very little healing just to do a mediocre 3 million dmg but without it we wouldnt kill it, so both your druids HotWing at the start will probably see you similar gains to our druid HotW and me using PEs offensively and Lava Bursting/ Lightning Bolting/ Keeping Searing up & FS.

    I'll give you our first kill and this weeks kill so you can maybe draw something from it.

    Here is our first kill (19/11) - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=8413&e=8839
    Here is this weeks kill (Where ranged are starting to cheese off of melee leg buff for ranks) - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=7422&e=7836

    The kill times arent hugely different which kind of goes to show how ranged cheesing in the melee legs actually slows the kill down a lot, it also lowers melee overall dmg. First kill isnt about peoples personal dps you need to remind them that, its about the maximising the raid dps and having people casting like Fireballs and moving all the time to the legs closest to you is not that efficient.

    Hope this helps.

  4. #4
    Field Marshal Xiaya's Avatar
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    I would drop a healer. If you're getting close to a kill make sure you switch all DPS to a leg thats low because the leg death will sometimes push you over the edge.

  5. #5
    Thx for anserws. We tried dropping a healer - we could easily kill boss and don't hit enrage, but ppl are just dying, like melee dying from aoe while dpsing legs with 2 healers on melee.

    As for leg killing on end - we cleared all legs and boss was about 3% (like 50mil) while jumping with a wipe-crash.
    Though we prolly will be sticking with hero on burn phase - to max dps we ignore legs on 35%, wait for 3 legs and burn them on hero phase.

    I was more curious if any of our players is underperforming with abilities that certain class/spec got on this boss.

  6. #6
    You wont do this with 7healers i dont think, we tried to 7healer it for our second kill but kept having 2/3% wipes, then just went back to 6 and oneshot it.
    We hero on pull but in that sense im not sure whats better, for us its like, if we reach the second phase we generaly just kill it so the quicker we get there the better.

    We have our healing setup like this.

    Holy pala heals the pheremone targets while keeping one tank up, i keep myself alive as prot pala, it does mean i am doing no damage but so be it.
    1disc and 1 resto druid on our melee dps (we generaly run with 10 melee dps on that fight)
    2healers (generaly resto sham/monk) keeping the ranged clump up and 1 healer spot healing (disc or holy pala).

    Edit: looking at your logs more, we have both our tanks kite at the start (can kite and still soak the slash) but one of your tanks didnt at all, seems like a small waste of dps personaly, we also swap our debuffs at 8, you generaly seem to do it between 10 and 12, its a huge difference on healing those 2 extra debuffs, if you would swap at 8 and just have your whole raid kite at one point -rogues you might just get away with 6 healing it.
    Last edited by Nuckels; 2012-12-17 at 05:52 PM.

  7. #7
    Best suggestions i can give :

    - Only allow cleaving classes attack the legs (combat rogues, arm warriors, bla bla), to maximize DPS effectiveness. With 100% cleave damage, 25M on the legs equals around +12.5M on the boss, which is dps gain. No point having single target dpsers attacking the leg and boosting their e-peen dps. Does not help the fight.

    When the following leg pops up, if they didn't kill the previous one, then some dpsers can help finish it, multidotters, whatever. You will gain a LOT of effective DPS on the boss, although a couple of scumbag dps will whine, argue and probably ignore the instruction.

    - Do not attack the 'bad' leg, the one that's further away from the rangeds\melees until the latter part of the fight. Why? To ensure that Mend Leg always revives one of the good legs, ensuring melees dont go out of range from the healers, that people can safely use the +100%dmg boost on the leg when needed, etc. When boss is on P2 for a bit, you can kill that leg for the % drop on the boss. But not too soon. We gained a lot with this change. Melees are more often near the raid for heals and CDs on Crushes. When legs eventually stack even rangeds can move to the good ones and enjoy the buff, bla bla bla.

    - Try and swap the pheromone 5-8~secs before the Crush, to ensure you have low stacks on the pheromone at the time of the Crush, to help healers. Crushes with >15 stacks of pheromone usually means deaths, specially to the far away melees that wander away for the further legs, and what not.

    Other then that, not more to say. It's a pretty straightforward fight that actually needs 'clever' dps instead of random mindless pew pew, at least until you outgear the encounter and just laugh at it, with no dps assignments :P

    gl with it!
    Last edited by hulkgor; 2012-12-17 at 05:54 PM.

  8. #8
    Drop a healer, leave cleave classes to kill legs it's wasted dps if you get people to actively switch to it.

    I take it healers are kiting in the last phase, if they're not then fix this as well. As soon as we hit last phase, healers take over leaving dps to stand and nuke.

    Don't die.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuckels View Post
    You wont do this with 7healers i dont think, we tried to 7healer it for our second kill but kept having 2/3% wipes, then just went back to 6 and oneshot it.
    To you and all the people saying drop a healer, we did it with 7 healers on our first kill and our 2 consecutive kills, it's definitely doable and not immensely difficult. That said I do believe that 6 healers is generally better for this, if you are however managing to hit low% with 7 healers and are having severe death issues with 6, you can probably just polish your dps up a bit.

    Melee can easily(at least with 7 healers) kill 3 legs(not front right or left depending on which way you're kiting), ideally you'd have a lot of classes like Warriors and Combat Rogues for killing legs, but as long as you have classes that are good at target swapping and do some cleave you should be ok.

    Lusting on the pull is ideal, it's most definitely better than lusting during execute because you have more ready access to legs, you have all your proccs up and you get a new leg just as you kill the last one.

    In P2 you can have melee killing all legs and probably some healers dps'ing, we personally make it so that our healers are doing pheromones in P2.

    And of course the obvious, make sure everyone's pre-potting, using 300 stat food and have healers dps as much as mana and hps-requirements allow them, HotW is really useful for this(durr~).

    All-in-all I'm pretty sure 6 healers is the norm and probably easier, but if you're this close with 7 healers it's probably just better to push for that little extra dps than overhauling your strat for 6 healers.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    Best suggestions i can give :

    - Only allow cleaving classes attack the legs (combat rogues, arm warriors, bla bla), to maximize DPS effectiveness. With 100% cleave damage, 25M on the legs equals around +12.5M on the boss, which is dps gain. No point having single target dpsers attacking the leg and boosting their e-peen dps. Does not help the fight.
    I'm not sure I totally get what you're saying. All class roles aside, each leg has exactly 3% the HP that the boss has (and the bosses loses 3% of his hp to make up for the time spent on the legs), but the legs also take 2x damage when you're next to it. So, any dps on a leg is basically the same thing as hitting the boss for twice the damage.

    Now, of course ranged classes can't really afford to be moving around, so they're out. But basically every other melee class should be on them, "cleave" or not. There's no reason not to, and it's a DPS loss for them.


    It really comes down to everyone trying their hardest to keep up optimal rotations for the whole fight. And keep killing legs all the way to about 4% or so.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    I'm not sure I totally get what you're saying. All class roles aside, each leg has exactly 3% the HP that the boss has (and the bosses loses 3% of his hp to make up for the time spent on the legs), but the legs also take 2x damage when you're next to it. So, any dps on a leg is basically the same thing as hitting the boss for twice the damage.

    Now, of course ranged classes can't really afford to be moving around, so they're out. But basically every other melee class should be on them, "cleave" or not. There's no reason not to, and it's a DPS loss for them.


    It really comes down to everyone trying their hardest to keep up optimal rotations for the whole fight. And keep killing legs all the way to about 4% or so.
    Most specs do double damage when attacking the legs. Cleave specs will do almost double damage plus a big amount of aditional damage to the boss. If your Cleave specs manage to kill the legs at a steady rate, it'll be a raid dps increase to let them take care of the legs and have the rest of the raid focusing on the boss.

  12. #12
    To put it more simply, Legs respawn at a fixed rate, ergo there is a maximum amount of damage legs can absorb before you're sitting there with no legs up at all (1.5% of the boss' hp every 30 seconds). You want only the most efficient damage into those legs, that is also enough damage to kill one per 30 seconds. If that doesn't make sense to you not sure what else to say. Yes, a mage nuking a leg will do 'double' the damage, but he also did 0 to the boss. A rogue blade flurry'ing Did double their damage PLUS all the free cleave damage. This is why it really is important to maximize your efficiency rather than maximum damage.

  13. #13
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    Unfortunately, I don't have time to look at your logs... but I'll ask the "is it plugged in" question anyway: is everyone using pots/flasks/food buffs?

  14. #14
    To you and all the people saying drop a healer, we did it with 7 healers on our first kill and our 2 consecutive kills, it's definitely doable and not immensely difficult. That said I do believe that 6 healers is generally better for this, if you are however managing to hit low% with 7 healers and are having severe death issues with 6, you can probably just polish your dps up a bit.
    How many rogues and arms warriors?

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuckels View Post
    How many rogues and arms warriors?
    We've killed Garalon heroic twice now without any use of combat rogues or arms warriors (and 7 healers).

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