Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ...
3
4
5
  1. #81
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Patras, Achaea, Greece
    Posts
    1,101
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Calling everyone who doesn't agree with you a troll makes every single argument you have invalid, also, it's against the forum rules...
    Your gear is terrible, end of story. What you say is that someone in blue pve gear should pull the same dps as someone in full epics, based on the fact it's both full pve gear.
    Honestly, if you are not trolling right now, you must be the most ignorant and stupidest person on this forum I've ever seen.

    @demetrion, I'm sitting at 410k as warlock in full malevolent...
    Like I said before, ad hominem attacks are a clear signal that you have lost the argument given that you don't have anything to argue against the OP, so you just resort to name calling.

    The fact remains, that 165k crit on full PvP gear is broken and should not be happening. In fact, it is proof that there is too much burst in PvP atm and also that Blizzard has failed to address the PvP burst issue.
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

  2. #82
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,098
    Quote Originally Posted by iamthedevil View Post
    PvP power negates resilience. Resilience negates PvP power.

    Don't tell people it doesn't negate anything, that is just straight up wrong. Its JOB is to negate.
    We're just arguing semantics here, but resilience and pvp power don't negate each other, they work counter to each other. Pvp power is a part of your damage calculation, and resilience is a part of your mitigation calculation. Your raw damage is run through your target's total mitigation, and the result is your actual damage.

    Negation is a little more complex, but it would involve the stats actually interacting directly--more like armor penetration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmbringe View Post
    Yes, I do have PvP gear. Not only I do have PvP gear, I have got 100% PvP gear. Full PvP gear in fact. 7 Contender's pieces and 7 Dreadful pieces. Like I said before, trolling does not constitute a valid counter argument.
    While we're arguing semantics, what've you got for a weapon? Oh, I guess you don't have 100% pvp gear then. Your question's been answered; I genuinely hope you're trolling at this point.

  3. #83
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Patras, Achaea, Greece
    Posts
    1,101
    Quote Originally Posted by Celic View Post
    You probably got killed by a moonkin who outgeared you, popping all cd's and you call nerf?
    If you want to remove what you call "hybrid burst" maybe Blizzard should remove pure classes selfhealing at the same time
    That's a good post.

    My Hunter doesn't have any self-healing.

    I forgot to mention that the Druid responsible for this outrageously huge crit after dps ing me down, would merely shift to healer form, and go ahead and merrily top their teammates' health to 100% without even going out of mana.

    So yeah, hybrids need a huge nerf to bring them in line with pures. If you want huge burst that's fine, but your healing of others should be insignificant to compensate. Currently, I see druids doing huge damage and then also huge healing.
    Last edited by Sturmbringe; 2012-12-18 at 04:08 PM.
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

  4. #84
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    4,702
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmbringe View Post
    Like I said before, ad hominem attacks are a clear signal that you have lost the argument given that you don't have anything to argue against the OP, so you just resort to name calling.

    The fact remains, that 165k crit on full PvP gear is broken and should not be happening. In fact, it is proof that there is too much burst in PvP atm and also that Blizzard has failed to address the PvP burst issue.
    Guess what, that 165k crit would maybe hit me for 120k, out of my 410k hp because I'm waaaay better geared. Guess what, getting crit for 25% of your hp by an ability that has a cooldown from someone using all his cooldowns is perfectly fine.
    Also, it's you calling everyone a troll... So who exactly is calling names?

    Also, that "full pvp gear" of you compared to some proper gear like mine, is comparing the gear of someone in greens to someone in full epics. Your gear is terrible, no matter what you say and the damage is also fine, no matter what you say.

    Also, hunters do have self healing....

    EDIT: honestly, I really feel like placing a meme here now...
    Last edited by Nicola; 2012-12-18 at 04:09 PM.

  5. #85
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Patras, Achaea, Greece
    Posts
    1,101
    While we're arguing semantics, what've you got for a weapon? Oh, I guess you don't have 100% pvp gear then. Your question's been answered; I genuinely hope you're trolling at this point.
    No, I have got 100% PvP GEAR. The word "gear" does not include "weapon".
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmbringe View Post
    No, I have got 100% PvP GEAR. The word "gear" does not include "weapon".
    Lol complete troll at this point, let him sit in his failed attempt and question his sad excuse of a life.

    Infracted
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2012-12-20 at 02:11 PM.

  7. #87
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,098
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmbringe View Post
    No, I have got 100% PvP GEAR. The word "gear" does not include "weapon".
    The word you're looking for is armor. Gear is inclusive of weapons.

    Also, hunters do have some healing, it's just not something you have direct control of the way a hybrid would.

  8. #88
    Im not 100% sure about all burst being broken but your brain on the otherhand is. "you have 100% pvp gear" thats a null argument, thats like me rolling up in my level 60 field marshall attire and claiming full pvp gear and getting smashed for over 150k. just because your in full pvp gear doesn't mean anything. what means something is when your in optimal pvp gear and gemmed/enchanted optimally to mitigate the incoming damage, then if ur getting nuked in globals you have a fair argument. untill then go practise your defensive cds on target dummies ....Psst they dont hit back

    Keep it civil. Flaming isn't tolerated here
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2012-12-18 at 05:30 PM.

  9. #89
    Why isn't this thread locked yet? This guy doesn't know what he's talking about and all he does is attack players that don't agree with his crappy logic.

    53% resilience is nothing. Wearing shitty blues that are all PvP gear doesn't make you god. People are out there in full malevolent upgraded gear, which is MILES better than where you are. A 163k hit is NOTHING on a guy like you. When I see someone in 318k HP I immediately know they're in shitty gear. FULL gear means weapon btw, and also implies that you have above entry level gear. Everyone on this thread agrees with everything that has been said to you before. Why would we all take our time to troll you and write 5 pages of "trolling?" Seriously, get your shit together man, listen to the people giving you sound and honest advice. After 5 pages of people constantly hammering you for your flawed logic, I would think you got the message already.

  10. #90
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Patras, Achaea, Greece
    Posts
    1,101
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Also, hunters do have self healing....

    EDIT: honestly, I really feel like placing a meme here now...
    No, we do NOT have self-healing. Exhilaration is a TALENT, and spirit beast healing comes with spirit beast pets only. The class does NOT inherently possess self-healing. Your ignorance is quite apparent.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-18 at 04:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by asb View Post
    The word you're looking for is armor. Gear is inclusive of weapons.
    No, it is NOT.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-18 at 04:26 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooves View Post
    Im not 100% sure about all burst being broken but your brain on the otherhand is. "you have 100% pvp gear" thats a null argument, thats like me rolling up in my level 60 field marshall attire and claiming full pvp gear and getting smashed for over 150k. just because your in full pvp gear doesn't mean anything. what means something is when your in optimal pvp gear and gemmed/enchanted optimally to mitigate the incoming damage, then if ur getting nuked in globals you have a fair argument. untill then go practise your defensive cds on target dummies ....Psst they dont hit back

    btw what was the name of the druid was it Bubbawatson on Archimonde -eu??
    Ad hominem attacks and personal flaming, only show that you are unable to offer a proper argument and thus resort to flaming.
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

  11. #91
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    4,702
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmbringe View Post
    No, we do NOT have self-healing. Exhilaration is a TALENT, and spirit beast healing comes with spirit beast pets only. The class does NOT inherently possess self-healing. Your ignorance is quite apparent.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-18 at 04:24 PM ----------



    No, it is NOT.
    Because your selfhealing comes in the form of a pet and a talent, it doesn't mean you have no selfhealing....
    Honestly, this is all I've left to say

    --Don't post memes--
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2012-12-18 at 05:28 PM.

  12. #92
    Herald of the Titans Theodon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,818
    Blizzard just need to introduce ilevel brackets for random BGs and get it over with. The growing problem of burst in PvP is scaling with the growing difference in ilevels between tiers of gear. A blue kitted out player in a BG won't stand a chance against an epic kitted out player in a BG due to the difference in stats offered by the inflated stats we now play under.

    But that requires doing something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmbringe View Post
    No, it is NOT.
    YES IT IS! Only you think gear isn't taking in to account everything you're wearing; AKA your GEAR, which makes up your GEARscore.
    Last edited by Theodon; 2012-12-18 at 04:30 PM.
    It's always been Wankershim!
    My Brand!

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by iamthedevil View Post
    In this thread: People that don't understand what the word negate means.




    Resilience - reduces damage from players
    PvP Power - increases damage to players



    PvP power negates resilience. Resilience negates PvP power.

    Don't tell people it doesn't negate anything, that is just straight up wrong. Its JOB is to negate.
    No, the word "negate" has a special meaning, when used in such context and you are not using it correctly. It's hard to explain, but let's say: the value of Resilence is higher when PvP Power of your enemy is higher. So when your enemy increase his PvP Power, he increases the value of your resilence. That's the opposite of making it ineffective.
    Last edited by Rmn; 2012-12-18 at 04:37 PM.

  14. #94
    Im not a hunter but what does chimera shot do, i know ur bm but ur full of s**t too.

  15. #95
    163k is like half your HP and you're in fairly bad gear, get back to me when it does 80-90%

  16. #96
    Bloodsail Admiral Sturmbringe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Patras, Achaea, Greece
    Posts
    1,101
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Because your selfhealing comes in the form of a pet and a talent, it doesn't mean you have no selfhealing....
    Honestly, this is all I've left to say

    No, we do NOT have self-healing. Exhilaration is a TALENT, and spirit beast healing comes with spirit beast pets only. The class does NOT inherently possess self-healing. Again, your ignorance is quite apparent.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-18 at 04:34 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooves View Post
    Im not a hunter but what does chimera shot do, i know ur bm but ur full of s**t too.
    Beast Mastery Hunters do NOT have Chimera Shot. You don't have a clue about Hunters, do you?
    NINJA TURTLES as the next playable WoW race/class combo. WoW has got Kung Fu Pandas, Pokemon and recently even Transformers in it, so I don't see how Ninja Turtles would be any less pathetic than current "WoW" is.

  17. #97
    Titan Synthaxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Rotherham, England/UK
    Posts
    13,053
    Quote Originally Posted by Alvorea View Post
    He had all the procs and used a full coldown macro plus berzerk to hit you that, trust me, everthing is aligned.
    Moonkins are far from overpowered.
    I said this back when Wrath beta videos were around, and again during Cataclysm, there should never be a situation where someone can line up all their offensive cooldowns and put out such massive burst against another player. The only time it should be possible is if it's a CTF BG, where the flag carrier is at the full amount of stacks, has numerous debuffs increasing damage taken on top of that, and the attacker has both beserking and their highest +damage cooldown active.

    It should never be a case that you can take out >20% of someone's health with a single attack just because you managed to pop all your cooldowns. This isn't just specific to moonkins, but applies to every spec. Burst isn't fun. There's little to no time to react in many cases. Fights that never end aren't fun either (see TBC healer vs healer), but at least then you can attempt to put some tactics into play and usually have time to recover if things start to look bad. Worst comes to worst, you can always run and force it to end, either by them chasing and killing you, or you escaping (or vice versa).

    With 55% resi., the point has been made even more that Burst is still an issue. Burst is an issue, which makes healing an issue (or rather, they complement each other, but not in a good way). Burst was the problem in Wrath. Healing was an issue, but it wasn't as prominent except in a few cases (disc. priests being the best example). In Cata, Healing was the problem, and burst was less prominent. Now, both are an issue. I'm confident Blizzard are working to address it, but it's difficult to say that i still believe they're dedicated to the cause after everything that's happened since i started playing in early TBC. It's like i say i trust them just for the sake of saying it.

    TBC wasn't great. Specs were hard counters to other specs. Prot Paladin was totally anti-rogue anti-warrior. No question about that. Resto druids were anti-everything, at least on the basis of being able to stay alive through a whole group of people attacking them. At least PVP gear looked awesome (and yes, i've always liked how they were recoloured tier, i was never one of the people saying they should look different... some of the PVP tiers looked awful, like S2 Paladin, but generally, they weren't bad and again, i liked them back then and i still like them now).

    Part of the problem lies with PVE health. Bosses do immense damage, but also have immense health. This means players need high health and high damage. When you mix in a stat like PVP power purposely to counter resi., the stat that's meant to reduce damage, you may as well basically remove both of them, and go back to a system where there's no PVP specific stats. In the end, those without some resi. from gear will get eaten alive, and those that do have it will still be neutralized because of PVP power. It's a senseless system.

    Let everyone use PVE gear. Sod it. PVP gear evidently doesn't make much difference in the end.

    So, conclusion; Cooldowns shouldn't be stackable so much, and Resi. shouldn't be negated so heavily by PVP Power to the point removing both would be a much easier solution to manage. Balance PVE health of mobs, and counter this by reducing player damage and healing. You end up with the same health now, but healing and damage are both reduced to make up for lower boss health, which in turn means PVP damage isn't so crazy. There's definitely a balance that could be struck in there.
    Coder, Gamer - IOCube | #Error418MasterRace #ScottBrokeIt
    Knows: Node.js, JS + JQuery, HTML + CSS, Object Pascal, PHP, WQL/SQL

    PC: 750D / 16GB / 256GB + 750GB / GTX780 / 4670K / Z87X-UD4H | Laptop: 8GB / 120GB + 480GB / GTX765M / 4700MQ

  18. #98
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    4,702
    Quote Originally Posted by Synthaxx View Post
    .So, conclusion; Cooldowns shouldn't be stackable so much, and Resi. shouldn't be negated so heavily by PVP Power to the point removing both would be a much easier solution to manage. Balance PVE health of mobs, and counter this by reducing player damage and healing. You end up with the same health now, but healing and damage are both reduced to make up for lower boss health, which in turn means PVP damage isn't so crazy. There's definitely a balance that could be struck in there.
    It doesn't. You need 67% pvp power to completely negate the base 40% resilience someone has.
    To completely negate 67% resilience, you'll need 300% pvp power.

  19. #99
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    32,274
    This is ridiculous, really, the amount of fighting over this.

    You've got your answer, OP. If you refuse to listen and just tell everyone they're wrong, they're trolls, they're ignorant and so on, there is no reason to keep this thread open.



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •