Elegon, 10 Norma:l How close are we to downing?

[thenightowl]

Elegon: 10 man Normal

2 Tanks , Pally, Druid
3 heals , Monk, Druid, Pally
5 dps , Hunter x2, Mage x2, Rogue,

On this night we attempted it 14 times. Since then only like 6. With worse results.
We were able to get to the 50% mark but the enrage timer was getting us at just 46%.
We have since cleaned up the phases of the fight and even tried 2 healing it.

For example,
P1, only allowing 2-3 protectors
P2, aiming for 3-4 sets of charges
P3, killing pylons at the same time

I am not good with WOL but I did compare ours to another WOL. From what I could tell our DPS and HPS are indeed low. My question is exactly how low/far are we from being able to beat Elegon?

worldoflogs.com/reports/cl2najyyyntl9vlk/?s=9971&e=10545

Thank you for your help.

[Spotnick]

It's a 2 heal fight.

It's a bare minimum to get 4 orbs every time (so you get 5 stacks of the buff).

You should be aiming for 1 add before 1st transition, and 2 before second transition.. it's not such a big deal to have more, but you will run out of raid cooldowns to absorb damage from explosions and your healers will be oom at the end.

The fight should take about 8 minutes max.

This is our alt run of last night on it: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w...?s=7787&e=8258

As you see, 2 of your healers are doing.. whatever they are doing, but 27k hps? the dps is hard to compare, because obviously, the less orbs you kill, the less dps you'll do.. but should be 4 waves, ignore 5th and focus boss. Everybody should do 100k dps+ on this fight with the damage buff from the bubble.

As I said, check our log, was first kill of a very undergeared alt run.

[Deja Thoris]

You HAVE to 2 heal it. It can be 3 healed but likely not by your group currently.

Kinda a simple checklist to see if you are on track.
- 2 protectors in the first phase. If you get 3 you won't make the enrage. (I'm not sayin its not possible but first kills theres some benchmarks I feel you need to hit)
- 4 sparks have to die each transition. Blow CD's if you need to to make this happen. The benefits of hitting the boss with more stacks far outweigh the dps "loss" from blowing CD's on sparks.
- 3 protectors in 2nd phase. We had 4 our first kill so its still do-able.

Class specific stuff:
Your mages:
Ozlito:
- 41% uptime on his most important buff, invokers energy. This means for 59% of the fight he was doing 25% less damage than he should have.
- No pot used (helpful to get 2 protectors in first phase, helpful in the nuke phase)
- Alter time is a great 3 min CD, never used.
- Timewarp, where is it!?

Jincy:
- Same as above. 41% uptime too. Thats terrible. (Its actually beyond terrible but I'm trying to be constructive - you get the picture :P)

Pally tank.
-Glyph battlehealer, its OP. Talent hammer of light, its OP too. Have him throw it down as he drags the protector out (on to the ranged group) and watch his healing rocket.
- Shield of the righteous / Holy avenger are about the best tools a pally has for mitigating physical dmg. He used it 19 times in 9.5 minutes. He used holy avenger 2 times where he could have used it 5. Use holy avenger and fucking SPAM sotr. It's off the GCD, it reduces damage you take by 50% and it hits hard. Hes losing 10k dps here.
- Just for this fight he should glyph holy wrath. Those add in the transitions that hit so hard? It stuns them glyphed.

I armoried the characters and you are all seemingly at 480-485. This isn't a gear issue, its a l2p issue. Terrible buff uptimes, no use of CD's (alter time, enrage length attempts with no devotion aura, tranq, pots or BL used and so on). You need to make use of all the tools at your disposal.

Fix this kind of stuff and your attempts will improve by leaps and bounds.

[reflection]

What you should definitely do is agree on a fix number of sparks to kill. The minimum I would say is 4. After you killed 4 sparks focus on the boss and ignore the sparks. This should bring you down to arround 35% before the pylons go up
Make sure everybody is pre-potting. You should only have 2 Adds in P1. We even managed to go with only 1 Add, but I suppose we have better gear.

[Deleted]

Phase 3 is way easier if you reset your stacks around 8 or so. You can still reset them eventhough there's lightning outside the floor, you just have to be quicker at going out and in again.

[NightZero88]

It's a 2 heal fight.

It's a bare minimum to get 4 orbs every time (so you get 5 stacks of the buff).

You should be aiming for 1 add before 1st transition, and 2 before second transition.. it's not such a big deal to have more, but you will run out of raid cooldowns to absorb damage from explosions and your healers will be oom at the end.

The fight should take about 8 minutes max.

This is our alt run of last night on it: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w...?s=7787&e=8258

As you see, 2 of your healers are doing.. whatever they are doing, but 27k hps? the dps is hard to compare, because obviously, the less orbs you kill, the less dps you'll do.. but should be 4 waves, ignore 5th and focus boss. Everybody should do 100k dps+ on this fight with the damage buff from the bubble.

As I said, check our log, was first kill of a very undergeared alt run.

This is actually not correct. My group just killed this last night for the first time. We were truly bad with the orbs. We only got 3 and 3. Going into P3 I think the boss was at something like 40%. We popped BL and ran in, blew every CD we had and killed the boss as half the raid was dying/dead.

On the first phase we had 2 protectors and the second phase we had 4. Our DPS was decent, 4 people above 100k but as it was our first kill with minimal attempts it was sloppy as heck. I even called it as a wipe halfway through cause of how poorly we were doing.

OT: You basically want to do 2 protectors in P1 and 3 in P2 though we did 4. You also want to decide after some testing how many sparks you can reliably get down. For us it was 3 so on 4 we focused the boss. If you can push 85% and 50% after 2 protectors and 3/4 protectors you should be able to meet the enrage. Ideally you want more sparks than our 8 but it is doable.

[Deja Thoris]

Finally, to Deja Thoris. Throwing out time warp before the last phase seems silly to me. Using it early, just to push the last phase, doesn't sound right. You aren't seeing it because people would tend to save it for the execute range on the boss.

Most of the other suggestions in this thread are solid and should help your raid team get much much closer on this fight. I wish you luck.

I checked their 9:30 wipes (enrage) and they didnt use TW.

[underdogba]

I don't want to be negative, but the reality is that the dps your group is pulling is way too low for killing Elegon to be remotely realistic.

The amount of dps I'm seeing in your parse is not in the ballpark of simple tweaks getting you closer.

---------- Post added 2012-12-17 at 05:02 PM ----------

Pally tank.
-Glyph battlehealer, its OP. Talent hammer of light, its OP too. Have him throw it down as he drags the protector out (on to the ranged group) and watch his healing rocket.
- Shield of the righteous / Holy avenger are about the best tools a pally has for mitigating physical dmg. He used it 19 times in 9.5 minutes. He used holy avenger 2 times where he could have used it 5. Use holy avenger and fucking SPAM sotr. It's off the GCD, it reduces damage you take by 50% and it hits hard. Hes losing 10k dps here.
- Just for this fight he should glyph holy wrath. Those add in the transitions that hit so hard? It stuns them glyphed.

Another Pally tank tip that is absolutely radical to improving your group's success.

During the spark phases ALWAYS save Avenger's shield for when the sparks initially spawn. If you hit them immediately, you will hit three like a truck and it will make less bursty dps'ers have a much easier time with their assignment on the third and fourth sparks.

Also the business about Holy Avenger above is not really anything anyone should take seriously. All three talents in that tier generate approximately the same amount of extra HoPo on average, there is no real concrete dps gain from speccing HA. HA is no doubt a good choice and very useful as a proactively-timed cooldown, but all three talents have their arguable merits. This is not a no-brainer whatsoever. Personally with respect to my playstyle, I actually prefer Divine Purpose for most fights, including this one.

[Kanadei]

Pally tank.
-Glyph battlehealer, its OP. Talent hammer of light, its OP too. Have him throw it down as he drags the protector out (on to the ranged group) and watch his healing rocket.
- Shield of the righteous / Holy avenger are about the best tools a pally has for mitigating physical dmg. He used it 19 times in 9.5 minutes. He used holy avenger 2 times where he could have used it 5. Use holy avenger and fucking SPAM sotr. It's off the GCD, it reduces damage you take by 50% and it hits hard. Hes losing 10k dps here.
- Just for this fight he should glyph holy wrath. Those add in the transitions that hit so hard? It stuns them glyphed.

It's not off the GCD, but yes he could be popping it on every second GCD give or take a couple.

Some other quick notes...

His gems are kind of all over the place, he has both haste and mastery gemmed when he should be picking one or the other.

He doesn't need stam gems at all at your current gear/progression level - if possible he should try and reforge around to get rid of these and get more beneficial stats.

Hecan unglyph Divine Protection for this fight and use the 40% magic reduction for the breaths.

And to repeat what is likely the most important part above (except for improving his rotation use and general cooldown useage):

Glyph of Battle Healer and Seal of Insight are a must.

Also, if he was looking for feedback on when to use cooldowns, pop divine protection/guardian on the breaths and always make sure SS is up before them.

Pop HA on the adds as they spawn so you have almost complete uptime on SOTR for when a few are gathered up.

Pop a cooldown during the add exploding if you are taking any sizeable amounts of damage.

[underdogba]

There's a lot of exaggeration going on in this thread.

Glyph of Battle Healer is very nice, but it's not particularly overpowered. Prot pallies look absolutely awesome on the healing meter on fights like this, but only about 20% of that is actually Battle Insight. About 80% is usually pure self-healing in a combination of Insight procs, Sacred Shield, and self-WoG'ing. The Battle Insight effect of this glyph is actually really only comparable in size to what judging "light" on a target used to do.

The reason that Seal of Insight is mandatory (and not just in this fight, but basically everything) is because it grants a huge amount of spell haste that speeds up Sacred Shield's refresh, which is non-trivial with how SS scales with Vengeance, in addition to the fact that the proc heal is decent.

[Kagonos]

Most importantly, unless you have 5 OUTSTANDING DPS, you HAVE to 2 heal this... I don't think trying to get the first P2 in 1 Protector should be a focus unless you're a top tier guild, and since you're asking the questions that you are, then that's an easy point. But you definitely need to be doing it in 2. Ideally, you should be killing #2 as Elegon begins the first transition as you have plenty of time to mop it up while he casts the first sparks. Then in phase 2, especially since you don't have OUTSTANDING DPS, focus on getting 4 sparks killed (ignore the 5th by burning the boss as fast as you can!) in each of the sparks phases for a total of 8 killed and a 100% bonus dmg debuff. Don't forget how helpful it is to kill the pillars at roughly the same time...

The second phase with protectors has to be done within a MAXIMUM of 4 and really should end up being only 3. 3 is ideal, 2 is superb, 4 is still doable. Looking this over, you aren't really that close. 48% wipes is still pretty far off. Pay attention to the previously mentioned benchmarks and see how close you are to achieving each one...

[PHsname]

Have a set number of orbs you kill each phase. Don't "try" for an extra set - you either kill it or you ignore it. By ignoring a set, you get a ton of dps time up on the boss. I think the minimum you should be going for is 5 in each phase. Any less, and your p3 is going to suck balls.

Drop down to two healers. There's absolutely no reason to have three. Your raid takes WAY less damage with the way Total Annihilation is handled on hard mode. You're also just going to make P3 last that much longer by being down a DPS.

Your healing is low because you have three healers. Your DPS is probably low because you haven't actually killed the boss yet. DPS inflates by quite a bit in P3 since you're just sitting there blowing up the boss with 10+ stacks. If you can push P1 with 2-3 adds, and push second P1 with 3-4, then you'll be fine provided you get enough orbs down, and you're saving hero for P3.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Phase 3 is way easier if you reset your stacks around 8 or so. You can still reset them eventhough there's lightning outside the floor, you just have to be quicker at going out and in again.

Do not do this in p3, all you will do is take more damage and lose time healing/dpsing. Just use hero and chain defensive CDs and it is fine, going in and out is just going to kill people.

[clevin]

A couple of thoughts on the druid healing...

1) Rejuv use seems high. You can't blanket the raid with Rejuv as a quasi-AOE heal anymore, the mana cost is too high. If you're not careful, the later ticks get sniped as other healers see someone low and heal them up, not realizing or caring that there's a hot on them.

2) Pop Incarnation and spam free Lifeblooms on people if you need something ticking on them. Enjoy regrowths during this time too.

3) Don't be afraid of using CDs when needed. That's why they're there.

4) Make sure people are stacking if/when they can so you can get maximum use from Efflorescence.

Coordinate the healing... make sure that people aren't popping overlapping CDs, accidentally sniping heals, etc.

[Deja Thoris]

It's not off the GCD, but yes he could be popping it on every second GCD give or take a couple.

It is off the GCD, I'm not debating this issue with you, I'm telling you. I agree with glyph of battlhealer, it adds up tho. What is fantastic in this fight is lights hammer. Throw that down with vengeance, ranged and healers are all stacked, its big numbers. I did 3.6 mill healing with mine on our last elegon kill and I crashed for most of the 85% to 50% phase. A feral went bear and yoinked the protectors.

There's a lot of exaggeration going on in this thread.

Glyph of Battle Healer is very nice, but it's not particularly overpowered. Prot pallies look absolutely awesome on the healing meter on fights like this, but only about 20%

Did 25% of mine on our last elegon fight. Not quite overpowered but its pretty much a must. A glyph that helps the raid out with that much healing is golden. It added up to 7k hps.

[Ahveros]

I looked at the dps from your logs and I have to say your rogue should easily be over 100k. If you want I can give him some tips on the rotation and what to do on elegon plus other bosses. Tell him to add Ahveros#1117 to his battletag friends list if he wants some help.

[Deleted]

Second, your hunters. Ours run BM for high damage on the boss (both are usually at 120k when the end comes) but they have mentioned having issues with their orbs. Getting their pets to switch has been troublesome. Not sure what can be done about that.

What I found helpful for my guilds first kill was speccing Blink Strike instead of Murder of Crows as BM, whilst Crows is stronger overall having Blink Strike helped a ton on the sparks. Blink Strike and Kill Command meant the pet swapped almost instantly, and if both attacks crit then the spark was almost dead. (Think my highest Blink Strike was 315k)

Even with using Blink Strike over Crows I did 137k on the fight at about 480 ilevel.

[thenightowl]

Thank you all for the great input. Some people have said its doable with this group some say otherwise. Our dps does show to be low looking at the logs but I wasn't convinced that was why we were having issues. I also really appreciate the class break downs of our members and the points given thus far. Thank you all!!

I got to thinking about the 10% dps increase we get from killing all 6 energy charges and how they stack up to say 40% or how ever many we can get down. I may have looked at the logs wrong but on that attempt we did not have any increase of dps from the energy charges. Is that true? If so that will help explain the low dps. If we did get him to 46% with no extra increase of dps then as long as we can get that aura and execute the fight then we should be able to down him?

Here is the WOL link again


worldoflogs.com/reports/cl2najyyyntl9vlk/?s=9971&e=10545

[Kanadei]

It is off the GCD, I'm not debating this issue with you, I'm telling you.

Strange defensiveness aside, you are correct this was my mistake. It was changed recently.

And yeah, I never said any combination of our healing/absorb abilities were overpowered - just that SoI and Battle Healer are pretty much compulsory at this stage in progression. You can probably live without Battle Healer but why would you want to...

[thenightowl]

Sorry missed this first time through.

Your healing is low because you have three healers. Your DPS is probably low because you haven't actually killed the boss yet. DPS inflates by quite a bit in P3 since you're just sitting there blowing up the boss with 10+ stacks. If you can push P1 with 2-3 adds, and push second P1 with 3-4, then you'll be fine provided you get enough orbs down, and you're saving hero for P3.

PHsname thought the same..