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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    huh? What? I'm not sure what you are talking about... lol.
    you said wowprogress didn't have your 4 90's updated, and i said they did now. kinda clear.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 04:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Woeful View Post

    To answer this ambiguous question once and for all . . . Look at the Profit and Loss statements filed by Blizzard Activision, look at a line that resembles subscription earnings. Look at known subscription numbers during the quarters reported and extrapolate up or down based on the earnings.

    Or wait until Blizzard tells you. Your choice.
    There is no 'sub earnings'. they include sales of pets, realms xfer, name change etc all in 1 number. And if you've ever listened to quarterly earnings calls, almost every one has 1 guy ask why subs numbers are stable or a small % reduction but the 'earnings' column dropped much more. Last one i think it went from 331 million to like 311 with stable sub numbers.

    ****

    Also to the guy who said they haven't announced china day 1 sales....you'll be waiting a pretty long time if you dont know Chinese players dont buy the game. They simply buy access time and pay a fraction of the cost. the only ones that buy it have to play on taiwan or korea servers.
    Last edited by phenix; 2012-12-19 at 09:57 PM.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    Actually, I've bought 4 copies of LK, 4 copies of Cata, and 4 copies of MOP. It's already been explained about their marketing timing, and in FACT Cata AND LK BOTH have been discounted... in fact... you can buy vanilla, BC AND LK COMBINED... FOR A GRAND TOTAL OF 5$... SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE A FUCKING DISCOUNT... What say you?
    Whoa internet tough guy, take a breath and relax. Now maybe you misunderstood what I said. When I said Wrath/Cata weren't discounted like MoP, I meant at release, not that they were never discounted ever. I know you talked about the marketing behind the discount, my point is why if the last 2 expansions did so well during the holiday season at full price would MoP need to be discounted as much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    Actually, they dont even have to report those, not EVER. They are legally obligated to cover income in their earnings calls, they are in no way obligated to provide subscription numbers, but they DO provide them, as a courtesy. Sadly, folks use that number to extrapolate all kinds of doomsaying conspiracy horseshit theories... You aren't one of those people are you? Didn't think so.
    I never said WoW was dying, even in a previous post on this thread I said that. But it's funny that every time the game is doing well they gladly flaunt numbers whether it's shattering 1st day sales, 12/11.5 million subs hit, or great first month sales of an expansion. But if the numbers aren't at or above their expectations, we only see them at quarterly reports like the last couple years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    Wait, you are backtracking, cant stand on the ground you laid out earlier? hmmmm.
    Last time I checked 6 days are less than 9 days, so I'm still not wrong. Plus we got more detailed figures from the Cata, like day 1 sales . I was just retorting that it wasn't as big a gap as I recalled but I'm definitely not backtracking.

    My whole point was usually when wow numbers were good people didn't need to ask because Blizzard would let us know. I'm not saying the game is dying but I do doubt that the game is thriving like a few years ago either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    You're full of shit honey.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    You should have no expectations for the next expansion IMO...

  3. #403
    Okay for sure the subs have to go up now. Many Diablo 3 players are getting free copies of WoW along with 30 days. This along with the current deals going on with MoP should easily boost the 4th quarter numbers.

    Love when they do this especially near the end of a quarter.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Point 1

    Global Player numbers are irrelevant for game play. Cross server content makes this rather trivial now. Soon realms will cease to exist as cross server trading and guilds will be added to CRZ and CR BG's and CR dungeons etc ...

    Point 2

    All supposed WoW killers ceased to exist ... As subscription based games. So the grass is no longer greener ... On the unpublished ones...

    Point 3

    MoP added a lot of new end game choises. I only hear positive noises from current players. Please ignore the ex WoW players in this.

    Conclusion: useless thread as game play across servers will regroup any number of players in the future and there is no competition in the subscription based field.
    oh good, BenBos back from his latest ban for spamming the same thing time after time on any thread with the slightest negative thing about WoW. anyone taking bets on how long it takes him to get banned this time?

    back on topic, making everything one big realm isnt going to help, if "content" remains free of both fun and skill. until they rectify that, the only thing keeping the game going is player apathy, and the massive inertia that needs to be overcome for people that have played this game for years to leave. in the meantime there is nothing in the levelling gameplay that will grab any new players. there is no learning curve, no feeling of danger, simply a flat, linear progress through each zone in turn. that isnt an RPG. its barely even a game, imo.

    are new players going to buy into the whole concept of "hey, i know its a bit rubbish when you start, but wait until you get through 90 levels of it. then you can play endgame, where everyone will insult you because the game hasnt taught you anything as you levelled. oh, and insult you because you didnt realise you needed to spend a few weekends reading up external websites in order to be able to play the game. oh, and a lot of time at 90 will be dailies. which are just as bad as levelling quests, but you need to do them again and again. and again. oh, and again."
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    The volume of new game features and content in MoP is a direct consequence of people cancelling subscriptions during Cataclysm. You're welcome.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Meatboll View Post
    If the game was good they wouldn't need a sale.
    Pop on over to Steam. All of the top titles have been on sale
    "Peace is a lie"

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    oh good, BenBos back from his latest ban for spamming the same thing time after time on any thread with the slightest negative thing about WoW. anyone taking bets on how long it takes him to get banned this time?

    back on topic, making everything one big realm isnt going to help, if "content" remains free of both fun and skill. until they rectify that, the only thing keeping the game going is player apathy, and the massive inertia that needs to be overcome for people that have played this game for years to leave. in the meantime there is nothing in the levelling gameplay that will grab any new players. there is no learning curve, no feeling of danger, simply a flat, linear progress through each zone in turn. that isnt an RPG. its barely even a game, imo.

    are new players going to buy into the whole concept of "hey, i know its a bit rubbish when you start, but wait until you get through 90 levels of it. then you can play endgame, where everyone will insult you because the game hasnt taught you anything as you levelled. oh, and insult you because you didnt realise you needed to spend a few weekends reading up external websites in order to be able to play the game. oh, and a lot of time at 90 will be dailies. which are just as bad as levelling quests, but you need to do them again and again. and again. oh, and again."
    See, its comments like this stated as fact that are just embarrassing.

    This game has proven time and again to be enjoyable and exciting to millions of people. Just because you don't find something enjoyable doesn't mean that it is a bad game. Just move on already. You and the game are in seperate places and you need to let the game see other people. You are a scary stalker

  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit5555 View Post
    See, its comments like this stated as fact that are just embarrassing.

    This game has proven time and again to be enjoyable and exciting to millions of people. Just because you don't find something enjoyable doesn't mean that it is a bad game. Just move on already. You and the game are in seperate places and you need to let the game see other people. You are a scary stalker
    Humanizing a video game.............that has to be one of the dumbest things I seen on the internet to date. Stop calling people stalkers and stop trying to Humanize World Of Warcraft

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Alastaircrawly View Post
    Humanizing a video game.............that has to be one of the dumbest things I seen on the internet to date. Stop calling people stalkers and stop trying to Humanize World Of Warcraft
    "Overly attached WoW Fan" sometimes i hate that... because they don't like to read negative criticism to the game, like if someone where insulting something "really" important in their lives

    I agree with you on this one.

  9. #409
    Banned JhanZ's Avatar
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    I expect 1mil loss in subs in the next conference call, that's my guess.

  10. #410
    Scarab Lord ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Point 1

    Global Player numbers are irrelevant for game play. Cross server content makes this rather trivial now. Soon realms will cease to exist as cross server trading and guilds will be added to CRZ and CR BG's and CR dungeons etc ...
    There are already battlegroup-wide LFR and LFD. There are many, many problems that need to be addressed before realms can "disappear". Among them, spawn rates on rares and resources need to be re-tuned. Cross-server Auction Houses will be like throwing an atom bomb into WoW's economy


    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Point 2

    All supposed WoW killers ceased to exist ... As subscription based games. So the grass is no longer greener ... On the unpublished ones...
    What kills WoW isn't going to be a clone, it's going to be a novel game. Something more like say, League of Legends, but that overlaps with WoW's niche, market, and playerbase.

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Point 3

    MoP added a lot of new end game choises. I only hear positive noises from current players. Please ignore the ex WoW players in this.
    I.e. It sounds like you ignore everything that doesn't fit your preconceptions. It's called Confirmation Bias.

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Conclusion: useless thread as game play across servers will regroup any number of players in the future and there is no competition in the subscription based field.
    Feel free to stop posting in it. Do you have any actual evidence for the massive (future) popularity of (hypothetical) server-transparent play?

  11. #411
    One human is subscribing. The rest are bots.

  12. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by JhanZ View Post
    I expect 1mil loss in subs in the next conference call, that's my guess.
    It will be interesting. The annual pass will have expired for everyone, the honeymoon effect will be gone and the "issues people have with the game" I would not be surprised if we seen a large number of sub losses. I would be surprised if they reported any gains

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    There are already battlegroup-wide LFR and LFD. There are many, many problems that need to be addressed before realms can "disappear". Among them, spawn rates on rares and resources need to be re-tuned. Cross-server Auction Houses will be like throwing an atom bomb

    Feel free to stop posting in it. Do you have any actual evidence for the massive (future) popularity of (hypothetical) server-transparent play?
    Who talks about unlimited cross server AH. It will be introduced in small steps like several servers linked for the economy.

    Also many problems ? I don't see them for 99% of the players unless you call out qq'ers who whine about seeing people around when they pick flowers ...

    CRZ is just the 3rd step of a fully integrated realm independant play (the first steps were already taken in 2006 and 2009 with BG's and Dungeons).

    -----
    Evidence of the popularity of server transparent play ???

    All over the place actually:

    ---> EVE has such a system (easy implemented with empty space but the core of such a system is exactly this).

    ----> ALL newly launched MMORPG 's suffer from this non integrated single realm play ... 2 months after launch.

    Server independant play is simply the Holy Grail: no longer will the player see his server go down with 50% activity in just a few months time, because CSPlay will populate all content from level 1 to level X.

    I don't expect you to see this. I know I can see this as the future for always populated worlds. I don't care if you disagree, I know it will be implemented fully in just a few years time both in WoW and Titan.

    ---

    Also the single realm play is JUST an old technical limit to populations. No one ever said: hey look we have 2 k players on line per server (concurrently) , so now let us call this the standard for "a population"'

    Ridiculous as Eve proved that 400k per server cluster can work even better. Corporates or guilds are the mainstay, not some technical limited single server number ...

    I would go even further: if EVE had been based on the standard 2-3K server play, it would have been dead after 2 years already... Because single server play was and is the death knell for any on line game in the long run.


    ----
    Actually this technique renders these threads useless: WoW can loose 90% or more of its population ... And the world of Azeroth will be populated dozens time more by a fully integrated cross server play than ANY fully populated single realm can even hold these days.

    I don't care you want to counter the argument because Blizzard will simply implement it anyway.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2012-12-21 at 12:41 AM.

  14. #414
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    Well if 5.2 comes out in early Jan it might Fluff the numbers up

  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by Alastaircrawly View Post
    Well if 5.2 comes out in early Jan it might Fluff the numbers up
    That's when 5.2 hits PTR.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by Alastaircrawly View Post
    Well if 5.2 comes out in early Jan it might Fluff the numbers up
    Q4 is October-December so they wouldn't be taken into account anyway.

  17. #417
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Also the single realm play is JUST an old technical limit to populations. No one ever said: hey look we have 2 k players on line per server (concurrently) , so now let us call this the standard for "a population"'

    Ridiculous as Eve proved that 400k per server cluster can work even better.
    I was there in EvE when they did their load testing per zone in 2010 (crowding zones with like 1k players all around Jita), and it had the same issues as WoW has with the CRZ zone server...lag.

    Only so many hits can be processed before hangs occur. They demonstrated how to effectively grind a zone to a stuttering stop.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by JhanZ View Post
    I expect 1mil loss in subs in the next conference call, that's my guess.
    I think it'll be a lot more than that. Not because MoP is bad, but I think people underestimate the amount of players who buy the expansion just to scope things out.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    I was there in EvE when they did their load testing per zone in 2010 (crowding zones with like 1k players all around Jita), and it had the same issues as WoW has with the CRZ zone server...lag.

    Only so many hits can be processed before hangs occur. They demonstrated how to effectively grind a zone to a stuttering stop.
    1. I don't have ANY lag when crossing world zones. The reason is simple: I have SSD's installed. Solid State HD's that no longer spin but access memory directly.

    This means the "lag" is purely related to the quality of your local client machine. In other words start playing WOW on a computer instead of a 2006 type writer.



    2. EVE is clustered server from the very start. Imagine EVE having had 3K populations per server on their economy...: yep indeed dead 6 months after launch.


    3. I realise that for someone who - for some odd reason - wants WOW to die off so he/she can live on forever happy, this new cross server open world play is something of a terrible introduction.

    You know: looking at OLD posts and see ///

    ..."the open world of Azeroth is dead" or "there is no one running the old dungeons anymore" or "my server BG's are empty" vaporated after the intro of cross server play,

    so will the threads about "WOW dying thing" vaporate once Azeroth will be populated by region wide populations and no longer is dependant on purely single server play...


    I can imagine the 3rd step in CR play (after Bg's, dungeons/raids) this open world thing is quite annoying to these "whish it would die soon" guys...

    Just be assured it is a way Blizzard will develop CR further (they started it already in 2006).


    Like I said: CR trade and CR guilds are even easier to implement than seamless cross server open worlds, so a lot of people will need to retune their thread titles ... once again.


    I remember you posted it back then: the pops will slowly die off until it is no longer fun to play on all those empty servers.

    That scenario can alreeady be scrapped.


    Perhaps it is time to put on another record. Like "they killed communities now".

    Which of course is idiotic as EVE proved for 10 years now, a community is quite happy and well with 400.000 players on ONE server (cluster) too !

    the end conclusion for player fun is still the same: these threads are now rather meaningless with region wide Azeroth play.

    Last edited by BenBos; 2012-12-21 at 01:09 PM.

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    1. I don't have ANY lag when crossing world zones. The reason is simple: I have SSD's installed. Solid State HD's that no longer spin but access memory directly.

    This means the "lag" is purely related to the quality of your local client machine. In other words start playing WOW on a computer instead of a 2006 type writer.



    2. EVE is clustered server from the very start. Imagine EVE having had 3K populations per server on their economy...: yep indeed dead 6 months after launch.


    3. I realise that for someone who - for some odd reason - wants WOW to die off so he/she can live on forever happy, this new cross server open world play is something of a terrible introduction.

    You know: looking at OLD posts and see ///

    ..."the open world of Azeroth is dead" or "there is no one running the old dungeons anymore" or "my server BG's are empty" vaporated after the intro of cross server play,

    so will the threads about "WOW dying thing" vaporate once Azeroth will be populated by region wide populations and no longer is dependant on purely single server play...


    I can imagine the 3rd step in CR play (after Bg's, dungeons/raids) this open world thing is quite annoying to these "whish it would die soon" guys...

    Just be assured it is a way Blizzard will develop CR further (they started it already in 2006).


    Like I said: CR trade and CR guilds are even easier to implement than seamless cross server open worlds, so a lot of people will need to retune their thread titles ... once again.


    I remember you posted it back then: the pops will slowly die off until it is no longer fun to play on all those empty servers.

    That scenario can alreeady be scrapped.


    Perhaps it is time to put on another record. Like "they killed communities now".

    Which of course is idiotic as EVE proved for 10 years now, a community is quite happy and well with 400.000 players on ONE server (cluster) too !

    how about giving it a rest? everyone in the universe has now read this post 100 times, yet you insist on repeating it again and again on every thread you "contribute" to. we get it, you love WoW. you worship Blizzard. everything they have ever done has been carefully planned and brilliantly executed. all other games wish they could be as original and successful as this one.

    oh, and i used to get lag when i crossed zones once CRZ came in. and my computer wasnt built in 2006. please talk me through why the SSD makes such a difference. what extra information gets loaded from the hard drive when you cross into a CRZ zone, as opposed to crossing into a normal zone? surely the only extra information needed relates to who is there from other servers, which is going to be data coming from the Blizzard server. or do you know details of the internal workings of CRZ that arent available to the rest of us?
    Last edited by Huehuecoyotl; 2012-12-21 at 01:22 PM.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    The volume of new game features and content in MoP is a direct consequence of people cancelling subscriptions during Cataclysm. You're welcome.

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