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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyaldee View Post
    Before talking about fair gameplay you should consider what classes/specs this glyph counters the most and without a doubt its a disc priest that's already at the bottom of food chain and considered unviable past 2.2K by even multi-glad players. So if you consider removing half healing output of a weakest healing spec with 1 button then i dunno what else to say.
    To be honest though, how many Enhance shaman do you see in arena teams? It's true that it's a bad thing for Resto shaman to have, as they should be making a conscious decision on what to spend mana and GCD's on (healing or purging) so they shouldn't be getting double the effect. However, you still have to keep in mind that the DPS specs will suffer greatly from this change, and we've been nerfed enough because Resto is 'too strong'.
    WoW PvP; Where DPS are healers, tanks are DPS, and healers are tanks!

    RETH RETH RETH!

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    As a shaman I like it, I like it very much. No matter what you buff yourself with it's gone in an instant. But I'd like to know how the people on the receiving end of this glyph feel. Dear warlocks, priests, mages and others, how do you feel about shaman being able to purge two of your buffs at once?
    I feel happy for you. I do not begrudge anyone of his fun in this game, friend or foe. So as a warlock I enjoy melting a shamans face off while he desperately tries to purge my now undispellable Dark Soul. It warms my heart knowing he felt like there was a way to avoid inevitable defeat. Yes, I am just that nice of a guy :-)

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyaldee View Post
    Before talking about fair gameplay you should consider what classes/specs this glyph counters the most and without a doubt its a disc priest that's already at the bottom of food chain and considered unviable past 2.2K by even multi-glad players. So if you consider removing half healing output of a weakest healing spec with 1 button then i dunno what else to say.
    I'm sorry that blizz nerfed your class into the ground and this glyph makes you upset. I never once stated that the glyph in it's current form is correctly balanced, only that the mechanic is fair.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Xolotl View Post
    I feel happy for you. I do not begrudge anyone of his fun in this game, friend or foe. So as a warlock I enjoy melting a shamans face off while he desperately tries to purge my now undispellable Dark Soul. It warms my heart knowing he felt like there was a way to avoid inevitable defeat. Yes, I am just that nice of a guy :-)
    hes not going to bother purging dark soul. hes just going to ground your chaos bolt and tremor your fears.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  5. #25
    Shamans can dispel my monk's channeled heal. Or they could. They can also dispel every heal of mine (except 27k mana surging mists).

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 06:27 PM ----------

    (Whoever said disc isn't viable past 2.2k, mistweaver isn't viable past 2k)

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilvaAger View Post
    Shamans can dispel my monk's channeled heal. Or they could. They can also dispel every heal of mine (except 27k mana surging mists).

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 06:27 PM ----------

    (Whoever said disc isn't viable past 2.2k, mistweaver isn't viable past 2k)
    Yeah, they can. Though that'll change in 5.2 blizzard said.

    As for the purge glyph, tbh I find it stupid of blizzard to do. Why? Because in cataclysm they simplified everything and made everything the same. In wotlk purge used to be 2 dispells regardless, making them the better offensive healer in regards of dispelling enemies. Priests were the better defensive dispellers because of 2x dispels etc. It's like blizzard lost in touch with the uniqueness and strengths of classes in PvP, which is kinda sad. Now in MoP they're trying to add stuff back that was in-game before, but this only makes certain classes a lot better than others, with no compensation for other healers.

    They should give priests a 4 sec defensive dispell tbh, and stuff like curse/poisons dispels should be seperated from the default dispels and make them trigger the same CD of both spells. This is to give other healers an edge above others in different aspects of PvP.

    Edit: Right now it's all about the healing and some utility CDs etc. But when it comes to passive gameplay there's not much difference besides the types of healing.
    Last edited by Ermahgerd; 2012-12-20 at 01:05 AM.

  7. #27
    Mechagnome
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    Because enhancement and elemental are so damn strong that no comp can beat them ? Just make the glyph for enhancement / elemental and its sorted. The two shaman dps specs always get hit by the same stick that pokes resto, its like a threeheaded nerfbat.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    hes not going to bother purging dark soul. hes just going to ground your chaos bolt and tremor your fears.
    And with totemic restoration and instant canceling of totems I now can do so twice as often, at least for tremor!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexton View Post
    Because enhancement and elemental are so damn strong that no comp can beat them ? Just make the glyph for enhancement / elemental and its sorted. The two shaman dps specs always get hit by the same stick that pokes resto, its like a threeheaded nerfbat.
    No! I love the hell out of this glyph. Especially against discipline priest and in part monks it is great. Also against Druids, for example of the Druid is out of the game you can purge all his hots from the burst target right before you switch onto it.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Terahertz View Post
    Yeah, they can. Though that'll change in 5.2 blizzard said.

    As for the purge glyph, tbh I find it stupid of blizzard to do. Why? Because in cataclysm they simplified everything and made everything the same. In wotlk purge used to be 2 dispells regardless, making them the better offensive healer in regards of dispelling enemies. Priests were the better defensive dispellers because of 2x dispels etc. It's like blizzard lost in touch with the uniqueness and strengths of classes in PvP, which is kinda sad. Now in MoP they're trying to add stuff back that was in-game before, but this only makes certain classes a lot better than others, with no compensation for other healers.

    They should give priests a 4 sec defensive dispell tbh, and stuff like curse/poisons dispels should be seperated from the default dispels and make them trigger the same CD of both spells. This is to give other healers an edge above others in different aspects of PvP.

    Edit: Right now it's all about the healing and some utility CDs etc. But when it comes to passive gameplay there's not much difference besides the types of healing.
    Double purge is one of the stupidest abilities in the game right now because there is no meaningful resource cost. The spellsteal nerf to mages should have been coupled with game wide offensive dispel nerfs, but that did not happen.

    It is quite retarded that some mongoloid idiot enhance can spam 1 button and remove all druid hots and monk buffs without having to worry about resource cost. Then again, ghostcrawler has NO IDEA how to balance the game properly for pvp, he balances the game for morons. Not true pvp'ers.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexton View Post
    Because enhancement and elemental are so damn strong that no comp can beat them ? Just make the glyph for enhancement / elemental and its sorted. The two shaman dps specs always get hit by the same stick that pokes resto, its like a threeheaded nerfbat.
    Sarcasm duly noted, but enhance is actually one of the best specs used by cleaves. Jahmilli had rank 1 with his enhance at several points, as has vanguards. It is a very, very strong spec especially against casters - most of the people whining about dps shaman specs are morons that backpedal.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-20 at 01:35 PM ----------

    Double purge is one of the stupidest abilities in the game right now because there is no meaningful resource cost. The spellsteal nerf to mages should have been coupled with game wide offensive dispel nerfs, but that did not happen.

    It is quite retarded that some mongoloid idiot enhance can spam 1 button and remove all druid hots and monk buffs without having to worry about resource cost. In TBC/WOTLK this was not an issue because resource cost matters - all offensive dispels during TBC, in particular, were not spammable because they destroyed mana. That is no longer the case EXCEPT for mages. Then again, ghostcrawler has NO IDEA how to balance the game properly for pvp, he balances the game for morons. Not true pvp'ers.
    Last edited by velnis; 2012-12-20 at 01:39 PM.

  11. #31
    TBH I don't mind the glyph on resto. If they spam purge they'll oom. I find it much more potent on enhance and ele teams. They basicly never run oom and spam it the entire game.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Highmoon7 View Post
    TBH I don't mind the glyph on resto. If they spam purge they'll oom. I find it much more potent on enhance and ele teams. They basicly never run oom and spam it the entire game.
    This times 100%. Enhance is also one of the best specs to play in cleaves now, so it makes a very powerful spec even more broken. Most backpeddling 1500 pvp'ers are quick to cry "don't nerf me because of resto" but, double purge is beyond broken due to the LACK of a resource cost for enhance/elemental. I'm sympathetic to ele as they're not the best spec, but enhance absolutely is rank 1 viable (witness jahmilli/vanguards); most will not realize this because hybrid dps specs do not get a lot of play even when overpowered.

  13. #33
    As Enhance I find I go OOM more often than not. All you have to do is keep them out of melee range and they cannot regen any mana. Same with ele, they need to cast their basic nukes for any chance of regening.

    It's all well and good one person getting rank 1 on Enhance, but until the top x teams all have an Enhance on their roster, then it isn't something you need to worry about.

    EDIT: Also, don't forget the GCD cost. Say an average of 5/6 buffs per person in a 3v3 team. That's 9 purges required, or 13.5 seconds used up.
    Last edited by Dundebuns; 2012-12-20 at 03:07 PM.
    WoW PvP; Where DPS are healers, tanks are DPS, and healers are tanks!

    RETH RETH RETH!

  14. #34
    As I mentioned earlier, hybrid dps specs never get a lot of play even when overpowered. Feral is the most overpowered spec in the game currently yet it doesn't get a lot of play because hybrids in general have all of their specs spread out among the 3. Feral is by far the best but it won't rival warriors because druid specs are spread out among 3 specs.

    Anyway, it is a dumb mechanic that needs to go. Double purge is spammable, and I'm willing to bet that you spend every global against a caster spamming that crap while not in melee range. Its annoying, no skill, and needs to go; furthermore, I think GC hinted that it will be changed. I am symapthetic to elemental as I stated, but enhance is currently a VERY good spec in 3s. You absolutely do not need double purge to win; enhance burst is honestly over the top with ascendance and you have plenty of tools to win. Stupid mechanics such as spammable spellsteal (nerfed already) and double purge should be removed because spammy no skill abilities are annoying and too good for the minimal resource cost that they require.
    Last edited by velnis; 2012-12-20 at 03:10 PM.

  15. #35
    Problem is that removing the purge glyph makes it too RNG. I'd rather see a CD on purge and make it remove all buffs. Oh and I lol'd at ele shamans not going oom. our heals atm have a 1:1 mana->heal cost.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobzor View Post
    Problem is that removing the purge glyph makes it too RNG. I'd rather see a CD on purge and make it remove all buffs. Oh and I lol'd at ele shamans not going oom. our heals atm have a 1:1 mana->heal cost.
    After the massive nerfs to off healing, you shouldn't be healing that much anyways. I played vs a 2200 ele shaman the other day in 3s and lost almost every match. He said he mainly spam purged our mage. He never went close to oom.

    Also removing all buffs would be incredibly op vs certain classes. I'm pretty sure all resto druids would quit playing.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Highmoon7 View Post
    After the massive nerfs to off healing, you shouldn't be healing that much anyways. I played vs a 2200 ele shaman the other day in 3s and lost almost every match. He said he mainly spam purged our mage. He never went close to oom.

    Also removing all buffs would be incredibly op vs certain classes. I'm pretty sure all resto druids would quit playing.
    Purge currently costs 10k mana, as elemental shaman our only way of getting mana back is to use Thunderstorm(jk rolling thunder huehue)that gives us 45k back and is on a 23 second CD. Most of the time u actually can't use it off CD because you're being trained all day and need it to survive.
    And I shouldn't be casting heals? Not sure if srs. I think I'll pick throwing a few heals around over being killed any day tbh.

    It currently takes 2 GCDs to clear a target from all his hots so Im not sure why purge on a CD would make it that much worse? Feel free to explain.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobzor View Post
    Purge currently costs 10k mana, as elemental shaman our only way of getting mana back is to use Thunderstorm(jk rolling thunder huehue)that gives us 45k back and is on a 23 second CD. Most of the time u actually can't use it off CD because you're being trained all day and need it to survive.
    And I shouldn't be casting heals? Not sure if srs. I think I'll pick throwing a few heals around over being killed any day tbh.

    It currently takes 2 GCDs to clear a target from all his hots so Im not sure why purge on a CD would make it that much worse? Feel free to explain.
    As far as healing goes, I'm playing spriest right now and after the nerfs flash heal is hardly worth casting. So maybe I'm wrong for ele, but it doesn't feel like it's worth the cast time.

    2 GCDs implies that your target has 4 buffs. Between hots, sheilds and buffs a target can have 6-8 on them easy. Whiping out 6 of your opponets gcds with 1 of yours is too strong. If they did change purge to dispel all buffs, they would have to make it the same for other dispels. Others wise shamans would be very op and required to arena. Teams without dispels would lose fast. It would make for very silly game play where a fully hotted mage would instantly lose all hots and shields then get bursted. In fact making the change you sugget would bring more burst into the game, which is already a big problem.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Highmoon7 View Post
    As far as healing goes, I'm playing spriest right now and after the nerfs flash heal is hardly worth casting. So maybe I'm wrong for ele, but it doesn't feel like it's worth the cast time.

    2 GCDs implies that your target has 4 buffs. Between hots, sheilds and buffs a target can have 6-8 on them easy. Whiping out 6 of your opponets gcds with 1 of yours is too strong. If they did change purge to dispel all buffs, they would have to make it the same for other dispels. Others wise shamans would be very op and required to arena. Teams without dispels would lose fast. It would make for very silly game play where a fully hotted mage would instantly lose all hots and shields then get bursted. In fact making the change you sugget would bring more burst into the game, which is already a big problem.
    Well I'd rather have 20k hp left than 0k I'm sure u understand that as well. Heals are always worth casting if they save your ass.

    Buffs gets removed instantly and are not applied during pressure so you can rule them out. a resto druid will have rejuvenation and possibly a few stacks of lifebloom on him, they're easily removed in a few GCDs with purge. On a CD you'd only be able to do it once and then he'd actually have a chance to get stuff up and running again. And I rly don't understand the whole burst issue, the chance of shields dissappearing on the first purge is already huge. You clear a target then switch on him and continue to dispell every thing that lands on him. Puting a CD on purge would make the game less about RNG and less about mindlessly spamming your offensive dispell.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobzor View Post
    Well I'd rather have 20k hp left than 0k I'm sure u understand that as well. Heals are always worth casting if they save your ass.

    Buffs gets removed instantly and are not applied during pressure so you can rule them out. a resto druid will have rejuvenation and possibly a few stacks of lifebloom on him, they're easily removed in a few GCDs with purge. On a CD you'd only be able to do it once and then he'd actually have a chance to get stuff up and running again. And I rly don't understand the whole burst issue, the chance of shields dissappearing on the first purge is already huge. You clear a target then switch on him and continue to dispell every thing that lands on him. Puting a CD on purge would make the game less about RNG and less about mindlessly spamming your offensive dispell.
    Purging everything in 1 stroke is obviously overpowered. I believe you need to think more objectively - spamming offensive dispels is good for your class, but the game shouldn't encourage spam dispelling enemy buffs. Furthermore, it shouldn't be completely trivial to negate major spells such as BoS, Freedom, etc, etc by spamming purge. Purge is too good in its current form.

    Many defensive and offensive abilities are tied to dispellable buffs, and the game doesn't counter balance that with a proper resource cost for offensive dispels. I'm all for having abilities counter able through offensive dispels, but literally being able to spend 10 globals on it without much of a negative effect - well thats kinda dumb. Just like the 5.0 mage spellsteal - wasn't it aggravating? It was completely dumb and spammable. Also, shamans being able to negate druid healing so effectively with a stupid spam ability is pretty dumb.

    IMHO, i'm sympathetic to elemental shamans; they need help surviving versus melee, although they're really good versus other casters. If they can be buffed in other areas, i'm all for it. But purge doesn't have an adequate resource cost as it did in prior expansions. Purge should be designed more like spellsteal so that it can't be spammed - mages go OOM after 5 steals. Other offensive dispels should be no different - it is highly aggravating when an opposing player spams it on you.
    Last edited by velnis; 2012-12-20 at 11:32 PM.

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