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  1. #21
    Working as intended.

    You can't start immediate kick, its at least 2 minutes.
    If you forced your party members to wait you for that long, you deserve to be kicked.

    Kick gives you deserter debuf if you was kicked before any action. This was made to prevent people from sitting on their butt at the beginning of the dungeon saying "I don't like this dungeon, kick me". With this system there is no reason for them whether to leave by themselves or to be kicked.

    This situation would NEVER happen to someone who does everything fair, because if you are inside dungeon and not afk, you can not be kicked within 15 minutes.

    There are some additional mechanics in lfg system which can be used for good or evil purposes, but overall most of them are quite logical.
    Last edited by traen; 2012-12-18 at 11:52 AM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by BaZERGer View Post
    The deserter debuff is just a report bug and move on, petty is getting worked up over 1-2 minutes, or getting worked up over the fact that some guy got to skip a trash pack you didn't.

    If a person isn't there by the time you reach first boss, then sure, but i really can't be bothered caring about a missing player on something as trivial as trash.
    Wouldn't say I'd get worked up over it, but I'd still vote kick someone who couldn't be bothered to take part in the instance. Not because trash is hard, but it's still taking your time up to do. I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over it

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    Sorry OP, but I agree with the majority here. If you expect a group to wait for you or do a 5man with 4 people (yeah, I know, easily doable) making them do more work it isn't going to work. I wouldn't have kicked you personally, but it's still not fair to make people wait.
    I made a bad judgement, because I initially thought that exiting the vehicle would place me out in the open in a field full of enemies, and that killing all of them to get away would have taken longer than rushing the last bunch of enemies. I now know that wasn't the case, and I realize that some people find it annoying having to wait for that one dps (in a recent heroic, we had to wait 5 minutes for a healer to zone out and reforge/gem a gear piece mid instance, it does suck), but I thought that being there a minute or two later would not have made a noticeable difference. And no, I was not disrespecting other people in heroics as people are saying.

    But this thread has been quickly derailed: I might as well remove the story from the OP because of this. We can debate all day over whether the reason for me being kicked was fair or not, but the point is that this glitch is punishing when people are kicked, especially if their reason for being kicked was an unfair one (for example: Ssateneth's post). Also, getting kicked doesn't always apply the buff regardless. It is a random glitch, and if someone is particularly unlucky, they get slammed with a 30 minute block from the LFD queue for often trivial reasons.

    Also, people need to stop acting like this is something intended for vote kicking. Are you telling me that a debuff that states "You have abandoned your recent group", and the LFD menu that states "You have deserted your recent group" screams "vote-kicked" to you?
    Originally Posted by Natryndon
    This isn't supposed to happen, no. The issue is currently under investigation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Freakcheef View Post
    And yes, you deserved to get kicked. You think that you are important enough that four other people should gladly take time out of their days to wait for you to finish a quest which you could have finished later without any loss of time whatsoever? Yeah, I would have kicked you aswell. And this is not even about whether or not you not being there prevented them from pulling trash, it is about your lack of respect towards the people you are paired with.
    "Taking time out of their days" is quite an overstatement. What are the chances of even noticing that one of the dps in the group is missing while clearing trash? I honestly reckon that if I didn't type "sec, vehicle", I wouldn't have been kicked, as they would have never even noticed anything different, but I decided to be polite about it. And from this incident, you derive that I have a lack of respect towards anyone I am paired with? Oh, please...

    Quote Originally Posted by Monoxyde View Post
    you were kicked from a group wanting to do a random because you would rather do quests than said random
    Since when did "quest" become plural? Just saying.
    Last edited by Dragonwing; 2012-12-18 at 12:04 PM.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonwing View Post
    But this thread has been quickly derailed: I might as well remove the story from the OP because of this. We can debate all day over whether the reason for me being kicked was fair or not, but the point is that this glitch is punishing when people are kicked, especially if their reason for being kicked was an unfair one (for example: Ssateneth's post). Also, getting kicked doesn't always apply the buff regardless. It is a random glitch, and if someone is particularly unlucky, they get slammed with a 30 minute block from the LFD queue for often trivial reasons.
    Fair enough about it going a bit OT. All I would say is that even if at one point they did consider it to maybe be a bug, it's been long enough since they last mentioned it that it's safe to assume they consider it to be intended. And as far as I'm aware (read: based on my experience rather than quotable source) it happens to everyone who gets kicked, so it shouldn't be something that you randomly get only if you're unlucky. If I'm wrong and it is random, then I haven't seen it yet. Everyone I've seen be kicked so far has got a debuff (at least those who I could see on my realm).

  5. #25
    Stood in the Fire S Blieft's Avatar
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    Some changes were made to chat channels at the last patch or so...

    When doing LFR, typing in party chat (/p) isn't seen by anyone in the raid,
    only the members of the party you may have Qd with can see it.

    Is it possible the same applies to LFD? I know that (/i) works in LFD too,
    perhaps they just didn't see what you typed?

    (beyond all that, there really is an internal timer from the start of the
    dungeon that doesn't allow for immediate vote-kicks)
    Last edited by S Blieft; 2012-12-18 at 12:20 PM.
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  6. #26
    Over 9000! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monoxyde View Post
    i see nothing wrong here. you were kicked from a group wanting to do a random because you would rather do quests than said random. essentially what you were doing was asking four strangers to put their game on hold for you to do something you can do after the run ends.
    It's not his fault the invite pops up during a vehicle quest. They had to wait for 1-2 minutes, that's really no big deal.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny888 View Post
    But why should anyone wait for you? Why is it fair to expect them to clear trash for you just so you can come back in for the boss kill?
    And okay, even ignoring whether you deserved to be kicked or not: Yes, of course it should give you a de-buff. It's supposed to be a punishment. Not a work-around to leave the dungeon without any consequences.
    Let me turn this back around on you. You enter my group and I initiate a successful vote kick because I feel like it. Now, you are booted from the instance. Are you going to be okay with the deserter debuff? I wouldn't think so. Getting kicked from the group is punishment enough. There shouldn't be the extra deserter debuff.

    That debuff doesn't occur if a player bails after a wipe, why should it apply when someone is kicked?


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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodias View Post
    Let me turn this back around on you. You enter my group and I initiate a successful vote kick because I feel like it. Now, you are booted from the instance. Are you going to be okay with the deserter debuff? I wouldn't think so. Getting kicked from the group is punishment enough. There shouldn't be the extra deserter debuff.

    That debuff doesn't occur if a player bails after a wipe, why should it apply when someone is kicked?
    Well, that would rely on the rest of your group also agreeing with the kick. And even if they did, you couldn't spam do it to everyone for giggles, cause the timer on your vote kick would keep increasing. Would I be annoyed if I had been kicked and got deserter? Yeah, probably. But then I've only ever been vote kicked once when I was having bad connection issues. So I don't really see this "We could all randomly deserter debuff people" thing being a problem. It's certainly not one I've encountered.

  9. #29
    Over 9000! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    The average group will have no problem waiting a minute or two every now and then if there's a good reason. Quickly finishing a quest is a good reason. Repairing your gear is a good reason. Getting something to drink is a good reason, ingame and in real life. Going to the toilet is a good reason. Answering the door or the telephone are good reasons. Those are all very good reasons to politely tell the group that it'll take one or two minutes for you to join them or that you have to afk for a short time. However there are always some individuals, the ones in your group or some here in this thread, who either do not understand this or are just assholes.

    The average group will not kick you out for something like this, probably because they understand, that every once in a while we all are in this kind of situation.

  10. #30
    Mechagnome Monoxyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonwing View Post

    Since when did "quest" become plural? Just saying.
    nit pick much? you wanted to do a quest and have four people at your beck and call for whenever you finished then to come to mmoc and whine when it didnt work out how you wanted. very hard to feel any sympathy for someone like that.
    Last edited by Monoxyde; 2012-12-18 at 12:19 PM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    It's not his fault the invite pops up during a vehicle quest. They had to wait for 1-2 minutes, that's really no big deal.
    Yes, it was his fault. It was his own choice - instead of returning to base he continued to do his daily.
    As for them - they had a choice as well - to wait or to kick. And they choose to kick. Its their right and they used it. Maybe if he said some magic words like "sorry" and "please", they could have changed their decision.

  12. #32
    Over 9000! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by traen View Post
    Yes, it was his fault. It was his own choice - instead of returning to base he continued to do his daily.
    As for them - they had a choice as well - to wait or to kick. And they choose to kick. Its their right and they used it. Maybe if he said some magic words like "sorry" and "please", they could have changed their decision.
    Yeah technically they also have the right to kick him for no reason at all. Doesn't make it less of an asshole-move. He decided to continue his daily because it's not a big deal, it didn't take long and it would've meant more effort and time if he had to cancel the vehicle flight and return later.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    The average group will have no problem waiting a minute or two every now and then if there's a good reason. Quickly finishing a quest is a good reason. Repairing your gear is a good reason. Getting something to drink is a good reason, ingame and in real life. Going to the toilet is a good reason. Answering the door or the telephone are good reasons. Those are all very good reasons to politely tell the group that it'll take one or two minutes for you to join them or that you have to afk for a short time. However there are always some individuals, the ones in your group or some here in this thread, who either do not understand this or are just assholes.

    The average group will not kick you out for something like this, probably because they understand, that every once in a while we all are in this kind of situation.
    I think the argument is that all of the things you've mentioned are things which are controllable and that you could have chosen to do before the group was formed. One or two minutes (which with the minimum kick timer you would have to wait anyway) isn't unreasonable. But while you may have spent 20 minutes queuing and don't want to say no when it pops so you can grab a drink, think of the other guy who may have just waited 30 minutes for the same queue. It's understandable that the last thing he wants to do having spent all the time waiting on a queue is to spend yet more time waiting on another person doing things they can do in their own time.

    So whether you would personally kick or not (and that is your choice), it's not really fair to say people aren't within their right to kick people for making them wait even longer that may have already been waiting.

  14. #34
    Mechagnome Monoxyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Yeah technically they also have the right to kick him for no reason at all. Doesn't make it less of an asshole-move. He decided to continue his daily because it's not a big deal, it didn't take long and it would've meant more effort and time if he had to cancel the vehicle flight and return later.
    using that logic him not joining the random made clearing trash take more time and effort for the group. 4 > 1

  15. #35
    From what I understand of the debuff system, if you never enter the instance you do get deserter. Its their way of bypassing the 15 minute wait time before the vote for someone who is forcing the run to wait. Theres a 2 minute wait time of being out o the instance before this is allowed. If you got a debuff after a normal vote kick, tha would not be intended.

  16. #36
    Over 9000! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny888 View Post
    I think the argument is that all of the things you've mentioned are things which are controllable and that you could have chosen to do before the group was formed. One or two minutes (which with the minimum kick timer you would have to wait anyway) isn't unreasonable. But while you may have spent 20 minutes queuing and don't want to say no when it pops so you can grab a drink, think of the other guy who may have just waited 30 minutes for the same queue. It's understandable that the last thing he wants to do having spent all the time waiting on a queue is to spend yet more time waiting on another person doing things they can do in their own time.

    So whether you would personally kick or not (and that is your choice), it's not really fair to say people aren't within their right to kick people for making them wait even longer that may have already been waiting.
    How is having to answer the door or the phone, or having to take a piss controllable? Well technically I can ignore the door, the phone, and hold it in. But to expect that of a person is stupid.

    And don't tell me you never afk for a minute while in a group.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-18 at 01:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Monoxyde View Post
    using that logic him not joining the random made clearing trash take more time and effort for the group. 4 > 1
    Kicking him and replacing him didn't make it go faster.
    Last edited by Nindoriel; 2012-12-18 at 12:31 PM.

  17. #37
    Mechagnome Monoxyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Kicking him and replacing him didn't make it go faster.
    you dont know that, and neither did the group. all they knew is some guy was wasting their time and they chose to replace him.

  18. #38
    you deserted your group to finish a quest, hence the deserted debuff

  19. #39
    im pretty sure blizzard added that as a way to stop the douche tanks that would sit afk outside of the dungeon waiting to be kicked then insta requeue. was a spate of it on alliance side (wasnt horde then) during the first half of cata.

  20. #40
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    The way I see it is, don't accept the queue if you aren't ready to immediately start the dungeon. If that means taking a piss, getting a glass of water, or finishing a long quest BEFORE getting in the queue, then get all that stuff done. The people who you grouped with are most likely ready to go and they don't want to wait. In several dungeons 1:30 is enough to clear to and pull the first boss.
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