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  1. #81
    Brewmaster Klingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetersenIII View Post
    Except not. If they're impatient enough to not wait for him for 2 minutes, why the hell are they waiting at all? You don't need any DPS to do instances (unless the tank and/or healer are kinda bad and/or poorly geared). If you can't be bothered to wait, then don't. Start pulling. The people who kicked him were douche-bags, plain and simple.
    Look, boiling it down it's simple: Random dungeons are social, group activities by design but due to their nature there's no consequences for bad behavior. The people that kicked this guy aren't douche-bags, they're people who don't like having their time wasted.

    We can concede a few obvious points there's really not much point in going over again:
    • Yes you can, indeed start pulling.
    • Yes it was only a minute and a half... A trivial amount of time.
    • Maybe highly geared players can trivialise an instance...

    But really, so what? Four other people were willing to pull their weight. He was not. If you get a queue pop, drop the damn quest and re-do it later.

    This is a personal gripe of mine I don't let worry me much anymore, but after eight years I still think is an important point to drive home: Don't fuck around and waste the time of people you don't know. They owe you nothing and will give you the same respect you've given them.
    Knowledge is power, and power corrupts. So study hard and be evil.

  2. #82
    I would kick you too, we have to wait for a group to be formed only so one person can finish his daily? either get out of the vehicle (yes you can) and zone in or don't take the queue. Saves us both time.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Not really. It's quite rude to do what OP did imo, even if it's just 2 minutes. He could just as easilly finish the quest after the instance. He basically chose to waste others time instead of his own, no matter how little it was. They were in their rights to do so. I'd probably wait, but just saying.
    The time of theirs he wasted is miniscule in comparison to the time they themselves wasted waiting to kick him (not to mention the time of his they wasted by sending him back to the queue, to say nothing of the debuff). Frankly, I wouldn't have had time to kick the OP because I'd have been busy keeping the group in combat. Because I don't have time to waste with not pulling when I could be pulling.


    Quote Originally Posted by Klingers View Post
    [*] Maybe highly geared players can trivialise an instance...
    Incorrect. Instances are trivialized by design. How about you don't fuck around and waste your own time? As above, time spent not-pulling when you could be pulling is *you* wasting *your own* time. So less being a douche-bag hypocrite, and more time killing mobs, eh?

  4. #84
    Bloodsail Admiral Ethes's Avatar
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    If kicks would generally be deserved I approve of this system. Ruining people's experience (making them wait, being rude, not doing your job, etc) is a bad thing and this means that getting kicked really is a type of punishment.

    That said, I've been kicked more often for bullshit reasons such as doing my job as a healer, telling people to PLEASE not stand in ability X because I can't heal through it, chainpulling as a tank, out dpssing dps as a tank, out dpssing people as a dps. Usually I don't say a thing in a dungeon, I don't care if people don't know what to do and unless people are exceptionally rude, I keep my mouth shut.

    Obviously I've been a bad boy a few times, said some bad words, etc. But generally, the reasons I've get kicked for are just plainly stupid! In that case, I feel it's unfair to have such a system in place as you didn't do anything wrong really after all...
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  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by PetersenIII View Post
    The time of theirs he wasted is miniscule in comparison to the time they themselves wasted waiting to kick him (not to mention the time of his they wasted by sending him back to the queue, to say nothing of the debuff). Frankly, I wouldn't have had time to kick the OP because I'd have been busy keeping the group in combat. Because I don't have time to waste with not pulling when I could be pulling.
    I wouldn't votekick either, but having 4 strangers wait for you in a game like WoW isn't gonna fly. If their first impression of you is that you are rude, then you might get kicked, and rightly so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethes View Post
    If kicks would generally be deserved I approve of this system. Ruining people's experience (making them wait, being rude, not doing your job, etc) is a bad thing and this means that getting kicked really is a type of punishment.

    That said, I've been kicked more often for bullshit reasons such as doing my job as a healer, telling people to PLEASE not stand in ability X because I can't heal through it, chainpulling as a tank, out dpssing dps as a tank, out dpssing people as a dps. Usually I don't say a thing in a dungeon, I don't care if people don't know what to do and unless people are exceptionally rude, I keep my mouth shut.

    Obviously I've been a bad boy a few times, said some bad words, etc. But generally, the reasons I've get kicked for are just plainly stupid! In that case, I feel it's unfair to have such a system in place as you didn't do anything wrong really after all...
    I think there is more to than what you say. You don't get votekicked just because you outdps dps as a tank. Either you are not as good as you think you are, or you are just hiding the fact that you were probably boasting about your dps, and telling them how shit they are.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Monoxyde View Post
    your logic is pathetic. by him not being there it took an extra 15 seconds for them to clear the trash. time is money, friend.
    Scum like you are why my friends and I play this game less and less. You inability to get along with others completely ruins the concept of an MMO.
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  7. #87
    Mechagnome
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    Taking into account what heroic the group was in (it literally has 2 trash packs before the first boss) I would imagine that they kicked him since he was not there when they where ready to pull the boss, can't really blame them for that.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    I wouldn't votekick either, but having 4 strangers wait for you in a game like WoW isn't gonna fly. If their first impression of you is that you are rude, then you might get kicked, and rightly so.
    Yeah, he didn't ask them to wait. That was their choice. He *told* them that he would be in the instance shortly. Their choice to wait was their own. They kicked him because *they* chose to wait for him. That's some awesome logic right there. I'd have kicked the tank for not pulling sooner than I'd have kicked him.

  9. #89
    Stood in the Fire S Blieft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klingers View Post
    Don't fuck around and waste the time of people you don't know. They owe you nothing and will give you the same respect you've given them.
    This needs to be an official loading screen tool-tip!
    And eight, eight, I forget what eight was for

  10. #90
    Brewmaster Klingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetersenIII View Post
    Incorrect. Instances are trivialized by design. How about you don't fuck around and waste your own time? As above, time spent not-pulling when you could be pulling is *you* wasting *your own* time. So less being a douche-bag hypocrite, and more time killing mobs, eh?
    Don't spin this back around on me as a personal attack. I don't even do randoms anymore. I was making a general point. If you're so beefy and awesome that you can blunder through packs of mobs without checking the healer's mana or waiting for that new guy, bully for you... That wasn't the point I was making.

    The point I was making was that in the minds of those four players, the OP's "I'll come when I feel like it" attitude translates in their minds to "I'm saying I'm more important than you.". Part of the votekick is as much to fuck him off and get a fifth who might actually give a damn, respect the group dynamic and participate. Obviously this is a millisecond decision that probably runs through the kickvoter's head on a level roughly equivalent to "Yeah... screw this guy.", but the implication's the same.

    Unless you're one of those ultra-type-A personalities, there's probably been some situation at work, a party or in a bar where you're having a conversation with someone, then another person walks up, kind of segways in and hijacks the conversation? There's a point at which you will tire of standing around looking awkward, you'll do a little calculation in your head, say "fuck this" to yourself and walk away while they're engrossed in whatever they're talking about. A kickvote is the mental equivalent of that.
    Last edited by Klingers; 2012-12-18 at 01:59 PM.
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  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Klingers View Post
    Don't spin this back around on me as a personal attack. I don't even do randoms anymore. I was making a general point. If you're so beefy and awesome that you can blunder through packs of mobs without checking the healer's mana or waiting for that new guy, bully for you... That wasn't the point I was making.
    I've been trying to make the same point as you, but he's too much of a thickhead

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Klingers View Post
    Don't fuck around and waste the time of people you don't know. They owe you nothing and will give you the same respect you've given them.
    Interesting... and if you condone people kicking a member who already said he was in the middle of a quest (and as a DPS, it's not reasonable to expect one to sit around for 15-20 minutes doing nothing) and finished in short order, that tells me a lot about what you consider respect.

    Maybe we should votekick people who need to go to the bathroom too. I mean, that could take a whole 2-3 minutes, and the group doesn't have that kind of time to wait around, does it?

  13. #93
    Brewmaster Klingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    I've been trying to make the same point as you, but he's too much of a thickhead
    Nice to know I'm not alone ;P

    Quote Originally Posted by darkwarrior42 View Post
    Interesting... and if you condone people kicking a member who already said he was in the middle of a quest (and as a DPS, it's not reasonable to expect one to sit around for 15-20 minutes doing nothing) and finished in short order, that tells me a lot about what you consider respect.

    Maybe we should votekick people who need to go to the bathroom too. I mean, that could take a whole 2-3 minutes, and the group doesn't have that kind of time to wait around, does it?
    Well, that's a fair point I'll grant you.... Some people might kick. Others wouldn't. Chances are the cost/benefit calculation in the party member's heads would more likely go in favor of keeping the bio-breaker purely because a little 5-10 minute dungeon run does actually establish a very fleeting mental attachment to that person.

    "Hey guys, I'm sorry... Can I have two minutes for bio after we kill next boss?" from someone you've run part of a dungeon with can go down a lot better than "We just met. Your dungeon hasn't started. I will delay your fun.". I'm just saying.
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  14. #94
    Bloodsail Admiral Ethes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    I think there is more to than what you say. You don't get votekicked just because you outdps dps as a tank. Either you are not as good as you think you are, or you are just hiding the fact that you were probably boasting about your dps, and telling them how shit they are.
    Believe what you want, but all the examples I put down there happened. I generally don't speak in party chat unless spoken to and I have no need to boast about my dps. I've been kicked for things that aren't trivial either were I deserved it, thats fine. Also, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one with these experiences which is the reason I put it out here.

    Most of silly kicks happen when you have a lot of people from the same guild in one group. Specially if one of them is an idiot and keeps dieing to one-shot mechanics and then blames the healer (Grim'Batol springs to mind, dps failed to move from a charge and got 1 shotted. I ended up kicked..). Which is often my role (3 different healing classes!).. Have you never been kicked for no apperent reason or blamed for whipes when you didn't cause them resulting in a kick?

    Besides, whether you believe me or not doesn't change my point. Namely, if you get kicked for no apperent reason, it is unfair if you end up with a debuff!

    Edit: Also, please note that I've ran a lot of LFD's since they've been introduced in WotLK...
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  15. #95
    lets say you're waiting for a bus, and while u wait you play some sort of a cell phone game.
    would you tell the bus driver "hold on, i'm just finishing this game here and then i'll get up"? do u think he'll wait?

    i'm sorry but this thread is an epic QQ, other people should NOT be waiting for you, not even for a second if its at start, its not like you had to go pee real fast in the middle, its quite annoying to get into heroic after 20 mins wait, and then waiting more because other people dont accept or get in...

    you can always leave V and continue after! you probably lag IRL

  16. #96
    Brewmaster Klingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Improtaight View Post
    lets say you're waiting for a bus, and while u wait you play some sort of a cell phone game.
    would you tell the bus driver "hold on, i'm just finishing this game here and then i'll get up"? do u think he'll wait?

    i'm sorry but this thread is an epic QQ, other people should NOT be waiting for you, not even for a second if its at start, its not like you had to go pee real fast in the middle, its quite annoying to get into heroic after 20 mins wait, and then waiting more because other people dont accept or get in...

    you can always leave V and continue after! you probably lag IRL
    Just wanted to say this is an awesome analogy and I wish I had thought of it first :P

    Nice work, and dead-on.
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  17. #97
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Praest View Post
    I'm sorry, but that sounds like it's working as intended. If you didn't get the debuff after a votekick, people would just start to queue up for randoms, notice that it wasn't the one they wanted and afk until they get votekicked. And if afking doesn't work, just be a royal butthole until someone kicks you. It would be a great way to farm gear, though.
    This was your own fault. You shouldn't have accepted when it popped as you wanted to finish the quest. In fact, you were wasting the group's time. You were rude.
    There's one of these macho jerks in every thread about the subject of vote-kick. "Yea!!?? well it's all your fault because bla bla bla blalakjs;lkdj;aj..."

    The OP got screwed by an imperfect system. He has a legitimate beef, even if there really isn't any better way to fix it. Let him vent.

  18. #98
    Bloodsail Admiral moremana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonwing View Post

    So I learnt a lesson today: Don't risk getting votekicked in instances, because you will be blocked from LFD for half an hour due to your clear abandonment of the group, and this issue is apparently too complex to solve within even a year.
    Apparently it worked, you learned your lesson, dont make others wait while your doing your dailies.

    I think its working great!

  19. #99
    Mechagnome Akarui's Avatar
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    It's most likely a bug, It's under investigation however it's not a BIG bug, it's only affecting a minority of the player base so there are more important bug fixes to do in the meantime. Unfortunate but you're barking up the wrong tree when it comes to complaining about minor bugs.

    To be fair this is a bug that I have never once experienced, also many other people i have known since lfd's introduction have never complained about such a problem. So it's not that the bug is a complex problem, just a really obscure and unimportant problem; although saying that I don't know how hard fixing bugs is, nor do i know what would be causing the bug, other than when you first enter a dungeon you get a 30 min cd that won't clear unless you kill the first boss (or clear the instance i can't remember) or are kicked.

    However your gripe with random people not being patient is a little funny, lfd has many people in it and for all they knew you were going to be 5 or so mins on that quest, and maybe they just wanted a dungeon quick before college or work. Naturally if you queue in lfd you should be ready to go in asap, it was made for convince and speed not waiting for someone :P
    Though i will admit the people are kinda d*cks for not even asking how long you would be or even pulling trash before kicking.
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  20. #100
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathane View Post
    You wasted a groups time and got kicked for it? Omg no way
    Learn to read. The OP isn't complaining about being kicked, he's complaining about getting the deserter debuff after being kicked. That shouldn't happen. Blizzard knows it shouldn't happen. Blizzard said there looking into fixing it well over a year ago. It still isn't fixed.

    Legit beef.

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