1. #1

    Prot Warrior Damage Taken Spreadsheet

    I wanted to check some data so I made a spreadsheet.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...2VrQ3c0dnVhakE

    Shield Barrier alone will win over Shield Block. But crit blocks generate 20 rage over 6 seconds. Thus the Shield Block could generate enough rage on its own to use a 20 rage Barrier ontop of block.

    Please check my numbers and tell me if I got sth wrong.
    Last edited by zorker; 2012-12-18 at 02:40 PM.
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  2. #2
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    I suspect your numbers are probably somewhat accurate, however the problem with tank damage intake is always going to be the delta so using barrier is for the majority not going to be as easy to heal as block

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    I suspect your numbers are probably somewhat accurate, however the problem with tank damage intake is always going to be the delta so using barrier is for the majority not going to be as easy to heal as block
    I don't agree, my stamina acts as a buffer. The barrier then gives the healers the chance they need to catch up on the healing. The important thing is to keep getting the barrier up as much as possible. A dodge is also great, because you then have some extra time before your last barrier goes down, so your next one is larger.

    Naturally it completely depends on the boss, but I find that the slow swinging bosses suit the barrier more than the block.

    I'm now using barrier as default and looking for the bosses that better suit block. The things I look for are:
    - high frequency of melee hits (including multiple targets).
    - too many distractions to pay attention to shield barrier properly.
    - being more concerned about increasing my dps with heavy repercussions than reducing damage.


    Zorker's idea that you can use both sounds great to me, but I need to up my skills and my expertise before I can make that work, because I don't have enough rage to spare when doing blocks.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  4. #4
    Mammoth even on multi-add fights Shield Barrier will be awesome. The reason is you have alot of adds that hit you thus proc critical blocks passively without using Shield Block so you gain 20 rage every 6 seconds by doing nothing. Plus Revenge will proc a ton. Thus you actually can spam Shield Slam and Revenge all the time. This regenerates so much rage that you can use Shield Barrier all the time. (It has no cooldown other than rage requirement).

    Plus your Vengeance will be very high since there are so many adds. Thus your absorb will be very high.

    When using Shield Barrier you probably want to use it as soon as possible. This gives you alot of small chunks instead of a big one that may leave you empty afterwards.

    In the end I'm pretty impressed with the Shield Barrier performance making Avoidance+Barrier tanks actually viable. (Stacking parry+dodge)

    I think I have seen a tank on the US forum actually doing this with 11+dodge and 25+ parry. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...antenai/simple
    Last edited by zorker; 2012-12-19 at 12:31 AM.
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  5. #5
    Regarding multiple adds and critical blocks: There is a hidden 3second ICD on the rage generation, which severely cuts the benefit of mastery.

    Also, Shield Barriers works great (even better) for a hit/exp build.

    You should check out simcraft's protection module and see whether your sheet comes up with similar values.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Berthold View Post
    Regarding multiple adds and critical blocks: There is a hidden 3second ICD on the rage generation, which severely cuts the benefit of mastery.
    To add to this, crit block's value drops even further when you're not using shield block. Guessing around ~20% block chance is what you get from gear? Say you're buffed to 50% mastery for hypotheses sake, what's 50% of 20%? Forgive me, I'm just now getting back into mathematics after 12 years out of school, but I do believe it's about 10% crit block chance. Now if you're using shield block, that mastery grows in value significantly. Honestly, if you're leaving shield block out completely, why not just gear for TDR and go avoidance? It's not what I would do personally, but this expansion seems to allow for some of that.

  7. #7
    Some thoughts to add to the discussion.

    1. I tend to prefer Barrier a lot of the time, but I have a on-use mastery trinket (VP stam one), when I use it I use Shield Block rather than Barrier. I figure the high mastery makes Block a lot better.

    2. I've been testing the Block + Barrier plan. At my current level 7.5/12% hit/exp, I can get a barrier up during my block, but I always lack the rage to get a second block going before the first one falls off. Maybe I need to get better at my rotation, but I don't think it's going be a tactic that works for me.

    3. If I am resolved that barrier is more important to me than block (the fights my team finds hardest atm suit barrier more), then what stat do I want to gem for?

    a) Dodge/parry - everytime I dodge and parry, it means that my barrier has not been consumed and I can wait longer and gain more rage before applying my new barrier. (I go for maximum barrier uptime.)

    b) Stam - this is my current favourite. I figure that stamina increases my buffer, since barrier produces spiky reductions. I also hope that it will improve the size of my barriers, by both increasing my vengeance and increasing the minimum shield size.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mammoth View Post
    Some thoughts to add to the discussion.

    1. I tend to prefer Barrier a lot of the time, but I have a on-use mastery trinket (VP stam one), when I use it I use Shield Block rather than Barrier. I figure the high mastery makes Block a lot better.
    On the fights which favor block, which is most atm, yes that is a correct statement.

    2. I've been testing the Block + Barrier plan. At my current level 7.5/12% hit/exp, I can get a barrier up during my block, but I always lack the rage to get a second block going before the first one falls off. Maybe I need to get better at my rotation, but I don't think it's going be a tactic that works for me.
    Best way to manage block + barrier is this: Use shield block on CD and when you're looking to be uncovered waiting for block to cool down, you then hit barrier with time to get enough rage to block again when it's up. Barrier to cover the gaps. Now on something like Elegon, you want to keep block up as much as possible but you also want to make sure you're timing the barrier to cover you for the breath. Food for thought.

    3. If I am resolved that barrier is more important to me than block (the fights my team finds hardest atm suit barrier more), then what stat do I want to gem for?
    Hit/expertise to cap, then stamina. Lei Shei or whatever it's called comes to mind, but I've only done him on LFR since recently becoming ridiculously casual.

    a) Dodge/parry - everytime I dodge and parry, it means that my barrier has not been consumed and I can wait longer and gain more rage before applying my new barrier. (I go for maximum barrier uptime.)
    That's true, just bear in mind barrier's short duration.

    b) Stam - this is my current favourite. I figure that stamina increases my buffer, since barrier produces spiky reductions. I also hope that it will improve the size of my barriers, by both increasing my vengeance and increasing the minimum shield size.
    Stam vs Mastery, Stam = Mastery, Mastery > Stam, it's still up for debate. Do what feels comfortable in this respect.

  9. #9
    @Mammoth
    Stamina does not affect Shield Barrier. Only at Vengeance < 35,000 which is in no way dangerous.

    Absorb is 2x AP (-AP from STR) or 2.5x STA.

    28000 STA = 70,000 Absorb = 35,000 AP (-AP from STR)

    You only need stamina to survive a period where you could not be healed and have to go through worst case. By default stamina on gear is already enough to do so (imo). Having more stamina allows for more EH but on the other hand costs more healing mana over the course of the fight.

    Overdoing stamina does nothing for your absorb shield. Normal bosses will give you way more than 35,000 Vengeance.

    Taking stamina is pointless imo. Going to hit/exp cap is not because you really need that damn rage to keep up the mitigation rotation.

    Getting to 60rage / 6 second is pretty hard. Actually impossible without proc-luck.

    In the long run Shield Block is on a 9second cooldown. Thus we would need 60 rage / 9 seconds. Which is possible to do.

    Code:
    spell                 rage    cd    rage/min
    SS+SnB                25      -     ?
    SS                    20      6     200
    Revenge+proc          15      -     ?
    Revenge               15      9     105
    Shout                 20      60    20
    Berserker Rage        10      30    20
    Defensive Stance      1       3     20
    Crit Block            10      3     ?
    Charge                20      12    ?

    We get 9 rage from Shout, Stance and Berserker Rage.
    We get 30 rage from 1,5 SS.
    We get 15 rage from 1 Revenge.

    That is 54 rage. Getting the last 6 rage is up to Crit Block, Charge, Revenge or SnB proc.

    Interesting. I need to adjust my spreadsheet since it is actually impossible to work on a 6second rotation later on. It has to be 9 seconds.

    Actually getting sustained 60rage / 6sec is pretty much impossible. What really helps getting there would be mastery stacking and using Shield Block for critical blocks. But if you are on the Barrier side you would not do that.
    Last edited by zorker; 2012-12-21 at 10:16 AM.
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  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Fiercon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorker View Post
    *interresting numbers*
    But does this indirectly imply, that IF you choose to use shield block every 9 seconds you will not be able to use shieldbarrier?
    I find myself using shieldbarrier way too much so I need to train my shieldblock skills. But since every Boss has a way harder hitting magical ability I fear I lack the rage required for a barrier. Or do you just leave out the block then and substitute it by barrier?

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