Also I don't doubt that there will be people that will spend 100 dolldar/euro per month to the game and I have read somewhere that lotro had some players also spend 600 in a month! But I think a middle option is missing..Shop is either a restriction removal or a gambling packs, there is not something in the middle that is worthy and has no gambling on it in order a regular player can spend on...their cosmetic sets are awful and most of them recolors of existing ones..
Last edited by papajohn4; 2012-12-20 at 10:41 PM.
The problem when you make a game F2P is systems need to be designed around annoying players enough to pay. Some games are less annoying than others, but at their core they need to give you a reason to spend money. Burying pay-to-win mechanics under an initial layer of skill-to-win, providing advantages that become required for competitive play, roadblocks or surprisingly reduced game functionality tucked underneath paid barriers that weren't obvious when you started.
I can't say that EA isn't being smart on this deal, they have seen their previous MMO adventures go foul, so this go around they are going to get all they can before the sub numbers get so low they can't scratch much of anything out of it. The bad thing though is the value vs cost appears to be a bit off for both F2P and Sub players.
TBH after reading this entire thread, I came to a few conclusions that make my stomach turn.
1. Player in some form are going to be paying for content they were told would be free. I understand that there could be some extra things thrown in to make it an " expansion ", but most people that are leaning on the fence are going to rather ticked about it.
2. They are expecting player to pre-order for something they don't really know anything about. I know why they are doing preorders now, its the holiday season and lots of people are spending money this time of year. It makes sense from the EA side, but from the players side its a leap of faith.
3. The cartel only race ultimatum may be the worst/most ballsy thing I've seen a gaming company say yet.
Its just really sad to see yet another SW MMO completely crumple into obscurity
As for dungeons/ops in the cartel shop. The problem with this is, as a developer, you want to get people to play together. You want to create a community. This means everyone should be on the same ground. F2P players and subscribers alike. If you restrict F2P access to dungeons and raids, you will have less people running your raids, and longer waiting times for those that are.
The same is true for gear restrictions (iirc, in swtor you need to unlock epic gear? could be wrong), if you restrict how good a person can perform with gear or gameplay restrictions (action bars). You will encourage subscribers to avoid playing with F2P players.This is not a good way to get an active community going.
The other side of the coin is, you have to make subscriptions interesting. People who subscribe provide a steady income for your company. If you unlock the entire game for free, there has to be something to get people to pay 15 a month, they won't just donate it to you.
What companies usually do, is they indeed make most, if not all gameplay features free, and they reward subscribers with cash shop currency every month, and QoL features like XP boosts, price reductions for vendors, etc.
Also, if you put the expansions in the cash shop, these subscribers can use their complementary cash shop currency to buy them. This is more often than not the case for F2P games.
Now I know this might seem odd for people used to WoW/Rift that double dip by charging a fee AND asking for money every expansion. It comes from the idea that the subscription pays only for server costs, and you pay extra for content.
THis is just wrong. Server/bandwidth costs are marginal these days. The 15 dollars per month goes for a large part to development costs (and the publisher's wallet). I won't make up numbers, but I would not be surprised if most of the expansion box costs are pure profit.
In fact, P2P games can easily make a profit without charging extra for expansions. Several titles do that right now.
Actually, The secret world (also published by EA!!) does this. They give a complementary amount of bonus points to subscribers, which easily cover any paid content addons.
TL;DR: I should stop writing the long posts.
Monk, I need a monk!!!
The difference though is that those games, especially WoW, are solid enough and you have a large enough player base to get away with it. TBH its the old MMO formula, or at least the one thats been around since I started playing at SWG launch, so most people don't have a huge issue with it. Everyone I think at this point understands that these companies are running these games to make a profit, and as long as people feel like they are getting their money's worth they will continue to pay it.
Its also the reason Blizzard still charges for race, faction, and server changes. Why in gods name would you give it away for free when idiots like me are perfectly willing to pay it :P
There's a tremendous difference between the cost of producing "Wrath of the Lich King" and the cost of producing the Sunwell Plateau patch.
Also. Anyone remember leveling on Voss? I think I got from 47-49 on that planet while doing every quest possible. If it's going to be the same size as that planet, just how are they going to stuff enough content into it that'll take you from 50-55?
You pay $20 for the expanion.
A subscriber pays $10 for the expansion and $13 to $15 for the month (they haven't stated a free month comes with this), this mean a subscriber pays $23 to $25 for full access.
You pay between $3 and $5 less for limited access, but you still get full access to the story of this expansion.
Stop playing with logical fallacies.
If the subscription fees did not pay for expansions, only for small content patches, why did we pay over 100 euros for a year of ICC? Why did we pay nearly as much for DS? Those subscription fees alone would be more than enough to pay for the development of Cata/MoP, and still have a big profit margin. Add to that the box cost of those expansions.
WoW does not need the box cost of expansions and the only reason they still ask for it is because we're stupid enough to pay up.
Monk, I need a monk!!!
This has made me stop my sub for SWTOR. I feel like I am getting a lot more from WoW especially when they just announced the The Thunder King is Risen patch.
Last edited by BigAssBoy; 2012-12-21 at 09:08 AM.
So content that was supposed to be a normal patch half a year ago turned out to be an "expansion" for 10$ or more. Again EAware starts to spin the PR so people dish out 10 or more $ to pre order...
Last time i checked decent game developers did extensive testing with their expansions, closed beta, open beta, ton of press information and stuff like that.
This will be a laugh when the shit (expansion) hits the fans. EAware has a history of not keeping up with what they promise, I utterly doubt something will change with this "product".
The only thing I agree with you on is that everyone is getting screwed.
f2p b2p players. And they can do it without level increase or with whatever. It's not really important. From that point of view the expansions/dlc packs are good/great.
The big big problem is what subscribers get and what restrictions are applied to f2p players. The dlc packs should be purchasable with coins. Subscribers should get more than $5 worth of coins every month so they can confortably cover cost of dlc packs and get some stuff from shop. F2p players shouldn't be restricted on dungeons, warzones, 5 mans or space missions, all that should be available as permanent b2p unlocks. Only rwz and operations should be p2p. The silly gear/currency caps on f2p players must be increased or removed.
---------- Post added 2012-12-21 at 12:48 PM ----------
They can easily go around it and just bundle up some of the bs restrictions to a big unlock bag. Maybe ppl will forget they might have paid $60 bucks for all this stuff before and will buy it again.
What's the worst that can happen to you ...
Yes Cathars were supposed to come with Makeb - on Darth Hater "E3 2012: Darth Hater Interview with Daniel Erickson" posted on 6/6/2012 and even earlier - article on pcgamer "The Old Republic announces upcoming level cap, new species, new planet, and free trial" posted on June 4 2012.
So now they are just selling the content they worked on when people still had to pay subscription and F2P wasnt even remotely considered.
Last edited by Madderdin; 2012-12-21 at 12:44 PM.
They are also sticking to their 'promise' of 'content' every 6-8 weeks by continuously updating the Cartel Market. How wonderful.